[trunks9_us]

I think I found my answer here still reading though

Audiogon Discussion Forum

How do the inductance and capacitance of ICs impact the sound? I have seen some ICs that have low inductance but high capacitance. On the other hand, so...

forum.audiogon.com

 

[trunks9_us]

Capacitance blocks bass, inductance blocks highs.

Thank you that’s what I was looking for to understand

 

[ckirocz28]

Thank you that’s what I was looking for to understand

They both exist in all conductors in varying amounts and ratios (relative to each other).
If you look at a passive crossover, the coils are inductors that block (reduce) highs, and the capacitors reduce bass.
So, for a cable, you want as little inductance and capacitance as possible, within reason. Whatever you do, don't coil up your excess rca cable length while you're using it, inductance goes up pretty quickly in a coiled rca cable, your highs will just go away. But then you are building your own cables to avoid having excess.

 

[Holmz]

.... Whatever you do, don't coil up your excess rca cable length while you're using it, inductance goes up pretty quickly in a coiled rca cable, your highs will just go away. But then you are building your own cables to avoid having excess.

Even in twisted pair cables?
or in Coaxials?

 

[trunks9_us]

They both exist in all conductors in varying amounts and ratios (relative to each other).
If you look at a passive crossover, the coils are inductors that block (reduce) highs, and the capacitors reduce bass.
So, for a cable, you want as little inductance and capacitance as possible, within reason. Whatever you do, don't coil up your excess rca cable length while you're using it, inductance goes up pretty quickly in a coiled rca cable, your highs will just go away. But then you are building your own cables to avoid having excess.

This is good information to know honestly. Well if this is the case then I might as well go back to my original plan and just buy some stager silver solids. Yes it’s expensive but I am also building a expensive system. And yes I even have a limit of means but I’ve already invested a lot of money and those silver rcas have good reviews. I’ve been wanting them just was still deciding on routes to go between klei absolutely harmony or wbt silver rca connectors. Those are all expensive no matter how you look at things. I guess I’m getting to the point where I’ll have to order some eventually just deciding things is the deal for me. I was hoping to use my wire but with the understanding of having a balance now for size it’s best I got with the silver solids.

 

[ckirocz28]

Even in twisted pair cables?
or in Coaxials?

Even in twisted pair and coaxial. Recently tested this with DATSv3, accidentally.

 

[ckirocz28]

This is good information to know honestly. Well if this is the case then I might as well go back to my original plan and just buy some stager silver solids. Yes it’s expensive but I am also building a expensive system. And yes I even have a limit of means but I’ve already invested a lot of money and those silver rcas have good reviews. I’ve been wanting them just was still deciding on routes to go between klei absolutely harmony or wbt silver rca connectors. Those are all expensive no matter how you look at things. I guess I’m getting to the point where I’ll have to order some eventually just deciding things is the deal for me. I was hoping to use my wire but with the understanding of having a balance now for size it’s best I got with the silver solids.

Don't waste your money on those super expensive cables! Just get good quality cables that are made well, the biggest difference in quality is in the construction and reliability of connections. Just don't buy the cheapest you can find.
I ran Stinger 4000's but they had breaks in connection inside the connectors (solder?), other than that they had excellent signal quality. I switched to custom made cables that are equally excellent, but with rock solid connections.

 

[Holmz]

Even in twisted pair and coaxial. Recently tested this with DATSv3, accidentally.

What is the mechanism causing this?

I am pretty sure that the inductance formula has the area and number of turns being the main contributors. And in the twisted pair that area gets reduced from the pairing... and then reduced more with the twisting.

 

[trunks9_us]

Don't waste your money on those super expensive cables! Just get good quality cables that are made well, the biggest difference in quality is in the construction and reliability of connections. Just don't buy the cheapest you can find.
I ran Stinger 4000's but they had breaks in connection inside the connectors (solder?), other than that they had excellent signal quality. I switched to custom made cables that are equally excellent, but with rock solid connections.

I honestly been itching to try them out and I have mono price premium rcas right now cheap and works but I wanna do a comparison test they aren’t crazy expensive but aren’t cheap either

 

[Holmz]

I honestly been itching to try them out and I have mono price premium rcas right now cheap and works but I wanna do a comparison test they aren’t crazy expensive but aren’t cheap either

Personally I would not get them, but if you have a hankering then maybe get em.

At least you could do some A/B comparison in the car and house and make out somewhat informative... that would at least be kinda fun.

 

[Old'sCool]

So is it gonna be a issue if I use the 12gauge and trim it to a 16 gauge ? Like I said I already have wire and I’m gonna use it because I’m not gonna spend more money buying more wire.

Yes, it's going to be an issue. 22ga or 24ga are optimal. If you'd like more reasons, the biggest is how the cables are typically made - twisted batches of multiple strands.

Electricity takes the path of least resistance, and an AC signal is going to travel on the "skin" of each strand (typically). This is, in part, due to valence electrons. But the real issue arises due to the parts (frequencies) which don't see the outermost surface as least resistance. This will skew the signal.

There are white papers on this (some written by FEMALES, FYI), which describe this in greater detail.

The best conductor for RCAs (imho) is 22 or 24ga solid-core copper. It's a single "strand," has low eddy current due to low mass, and the small gauge is optimal for signal flow. (You'll get people who claim you will break solid-core RCAs in a car, but as long as you're not bending them repeatedly, or straining them by trying to pull them through an opening or under carpet by the ends, solid cores are fine.)

Source: I literally build and sell RCAs, and have customers in IASCA, as well as home audiophiles in several countries who swear by my products.

FYI, Belden makes a very good 24ga solid core cable, all copper, which is shielded. If you need some to DIY your cables, I have about 10 miles of it and Audioquest 22ga on spools. Feel free to PM me.

 

[ckirocz28]

What is the mechanism causing this?

I am pretty sure that the inductance formula has the area and number of turns being the main contributors. And in the twisted pair that area gets reduced from the pairing... and then reduced more with the twisting.

Coiling the wire, just like an inductor coil, predictably produces the same effect in any rca cable, maybe not as much as stardard wire though.

 

[Old'sCool]

Coiling the wire, just like an inductor coil, predictably produces the same effect in any rca cable.

Just remember, inductors typically have a ton of coils. You'd need one lonnng RCA to coil it enough to make an audible difference, and unless it's wrapped around a ferrite or iron core, even more coils would be required.

With an RCA cable that long, I(nductance) would be the least of your worries. R and Z would be a bigger concern over long stretches.

 

[Holmz]

A twisted pair effectively makes it not work like a coil anymore.

If you had each 1/2 of the pair coiled, and even better around a ferrite core.. then it would become a choke.
As it is... the twisting of the pair, makes the coil area become zero.

 

[Old'sCool]

A coax, however...

 

[ckirocz28]

A twisted pair effectively makes it not work like a coil anymore.

If you had each 1/2 of the pair coiled, and even better around a ferrite core.. then it would become a choke.
As it is... the twisting of the pair, makes the coil area become zero.

I'll have to test it again and post the results, probably Thursday.

 

[Holmz]

I'll have to test it again and post the results, probably Thursday.

The easiest way would be one set of RCAs into a summing (differencing) amp, and the ones being tested into the side of a differencing amp.

Then one gets the difference between the two setups.

 

[JohnnyOhh]

This look niiiiice.

Canare Star Quad microphone cable is under $.50 a foot. Why put yourself through the brain damage to save a few dollars?

Canare L-4E5C Mini Star Quad Microphone Cable (Black, By the Foot)

Miniature Star Quad Microphone Cable, 23 AWG - Sold by the Foot (Black)

www.performanceaudio.com

 

[KFXGUY]

Yes, it's going to be an issue. 22ga or 24ga are optimal. If you'd like more reasons, the biggest is how the cables are typically made - twisted batches of multiple strands.

Electricity takes the path of least resistance, and an AC signal is going to travel on the "skin" of each strand (typically). This is, in part, due to valence electrons. But the real issue arises due to the parts (frequencies) which don't see the outermost surface as least resistance. This will skew the signal.

There are white papers on this (some written by FEMALES, FYI), which describe this in greater detail.

The best conductor for RCAs (imho) is 22 or 24ga solid-core copper. It's a single "strand," has low eddy current due to low mass, and the small gauge is optimal for signal flow. (You'll get people who claim you will break solid-core RCAs in a car, but as long as you're not bending them repeatedly, or straining them by trying to pull them through an opening or under carpet by the ends, solid cores are fine.)

Source: I literally build and sell RCAs, and have customers in IASCA, as well as home audiophiles in several countries who swear by my products.

FYI, Belden makes a very good 24ga solid core cable, all copper, which is shielded. If you need some to DIY your cables, I have about 10 miles of it and Audioquest 22ga on spools. Feel free to PM me.

I'm interested in making my own cables, what belden or audioquest cable should I order? Do they make a 6 channel cable? I'd prefer to run one cable than 3...i've got some walmart specials in there now...lol

 

[Ayrton]

Belden, Mogami, or Canare microphone cable is best. Use whatever you can find the cheapest.