DiyMobileAudio.com Car Stereo Forum banner
1 - 19 of 19 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
31 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I'll be trying to trace the cause of this, I guess it could be the speaker posts polarity, it could be the the amplifier's output wiring to the rear speaker being inverted or Could it be the hu output rear speaker wiring into the amplifier's rear speaker wiring input being inverted?

I was wondering in the latter case, if the hu output rear speaker wires were inverted into the amplifier's rear speaker inputs, would the amplifier shut down, blow fuse or what type of symptom(s) could it cause?

trying to find the easiest solution, if it's not the hu output wiring to the amplifier I may just switch the polarity at the speakers end. lol
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,546 Posts
What's the issue exactly? It's easy enough to flip the polarity on at any point if you want... Typically you want everything wired in the correct polarity and then time alignment to correct for phase at the listening position.

The only "issue" this could cause is a inverted phase relative to the other drivers in the car which creates destructive interference. You cant hurt anything wiring them backwards.

I could imagine a scenario were out of phase drivers creates cancelation. If you didn't know they were wired out of phase you could attempt to overpower the drivers to increase the output level which could potentially kill the drivers.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,618 Posts
Start over with the wiring if you are using speaker level inputs.
First verify the wiring on the input side. Then pull the speaker out or look at them somehow while using a AA battery or 9 volt to energize the voice coil. If the polarity is correct the speaker moves out. If reversed it will be pull in.
Then it's just verify the wiring on the output side of the amplifier.
First make sure the input are correct. Don't just assume they are. Everyone makes mistakes.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
31 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 · (Edited)
thanks for the replies, you've answered my question. I used a Phase Tester FH168 and found my 2 rear speakers are out of phase I'll have to pull out my wiring to recheck the polarity from hu to amp input and amp output to speakers, Arghhhh
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,306 Posts
now you got me thinking
Phase is relative. A single speaker playing is neither in phase, nor out of phase. Swap the wires on a single speaker and the result is exactly the same. As far as your amp is concerned there is absolutely no difference at all. You can switch the wires wherever is easiest for the exact same result. People frequently wire speakers out of phase on purpose in an attempt to get the final result to be as close to in phase as possible. So, swap the speaker wires, listen, swap back, listen, and leave them wherever they sound best. In all likelihood the difference will be very subtle, and you may not be able to hear a difference at all. Listen for bass response, if you have better bass response with one configuration over the other, that is the configuration that is most in phase.

Again, in phase and out of phase are the exact same signal, in one case the speaker cone moves outward with the initial signal, in the other case the speaker moves inward with the initial signal. Both sound exactly the same until you start adding other speakers into the mix, and even then having them out of phase with the fronts may actually be the best sounding situation, especially if you don't have DSP to adjust the timing of each speaker.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
31 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Phase is relative. A single speaker playing is neither in phase, nor out of phase. Swap the wires on a single speaker and the result is exactly the same. As far as your amp is concerned there is absolutely no difference at all. You can switch the wires wherever is easiest for the exact same result. People frequently wire speakers out of phase on purpose in an attempt to get the final result to be as close to in phase as possible. So, swap the speaker wires, listen, swap back, listen, and leave them wherever they sound best. In all likelihood the difference will be very subtle, and you may not be able to hear a difference at all. Listen for bass response, if you have better bass response with one configuration over the other, that is the configuration that is most in phase.

Again, in phase and out of phase are the exact same signal, in one case the speaker cone moves outward with the initial signal, in the other case the speaker moves inward with the initial signal. Both sound exactly the same until you start adding other speakers into the mix, and even then having them out of phase with the fronts may actually be the best sounding situation, especially if you don't have DSP to adjust the timing of each speaker.
I have a Kicker Key 200.4 that has auto dsp. I'm thinking of swapping the out of phase rear speakers wiring and ReRun the Kicker's auto dsp.

but still wondering, if a lone speaker is not playing neither in or out of phase, if we were to attach a speaker on the bench with a 9v battery the speaker cone would move in or out, correct? and I would assume the speaker is meant to sound better moving forward rather than backwards? and that result doesn't apply to amplifiers input and the resulting output signals? meaning the amp and it's dsp properties would treat the out of phase input signal the same as the in-phase input signal, the outputs of in and out of phase signal is the same but is 180degrees out of phase?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,306 Posts
if we were to attach a speaker on the bench with a 9v battery the speaker cone would move in or out, correct? and I would assume the speaker is meant to sound better moving forward rather than backwards?
You would assume wrong. A single speaker on a bench would sound exactly the same regardless of how you wired it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,306 Posts
If I get a chance after work, I'll try to post up some links to help you understand phase better. I have a busy day though, so if anyone else wants to jump in, I'll check in later.

Again, phase is relative. A single speaker is neither in, nor out of phase because there is nothing for it to be in phase with. You can wire all speakers in reverse polarity and have the exact same result as you would get by wiring them in standard polarity. You run into potential issues when wiring some speakers one way, and other speakers the other way. Those problems will not hurt anything at all, they just may result in some frequencies being cancelled.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
31 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 · (Edited)
found time to look into the out of phase rear speakers as I upgraded tweeters, installed crossovers and sound deadning in doors. I had gotten the PT-9A to help troubleshoot the problem/gave me peace of mind and it came in handy figuring out the Metra connectors, the rear Metra door connectors polarity or speaker polarity were wired wrong, I had taken it for granted it was pnp. The tester also came in handy to locate the hot speaker leads and polarity in the Metra front door/tweeter connector as I had to modify it to hook up the crossover.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
31 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I've contemplating replacing my front JL C1 690 woofer with the Morel Ultra Tempo 692 Mk2's as I feel I'm missing some mid detail(?). Would the Morel woofer w/the morel passive crossover(3.2kh?) make a discernible difference?
Currently running: in Tacoma
JL C1 690 components 6x9 woofer / Hertz 280.3 tweeters in stock dash and door location; tweeter facing windshield
JL C1 650x coax for rear doors
off brand passive crossover 3.4kh
JL Stealthbox 10"
kicker key 200.4
kicker key 500.1

recently fixed rear door out phase problem and sound deadened 4 doors and that was a very Good difference having more bass from the doors.

These Morels are twice the cost of the JL's, do you think it would make much of a difference in mid response(with detail) with the Morel's?

btw Happy Thanksgiving!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
31 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 · (Edited)
or is it that I may never be satisfied for what I'm looking for with a 6"x9" speaker. Since I've a dedicated subwoofer, it may be wiser to look into a 6-1/2" woofer for the front doors?

I'm mixing speaker brand components and assuming the manufacture paired their components for the best sound w/wo their passive crossovers as I notice brands having different co points with their component kit?
 
1 - 19 of 19 Posts
Top