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Scanspeak 10F/4424G00 Discovery 4 inch Midrange (4 ohm version)

Cliff's: Good results. Rising on-axis response above 5khz. But no modal issues to speak of. Would actually make a better wideband driver than most drivers marketed as "wideband". Though, I still wouldn't recommend that. Should not be crossed lower than the typical 300hz (give or take, depending on exact usage) because there's not a lot of excursion here. Thumbs up.

 

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Excellent drivers. I have some of these and the full range version and both are terrific. I saw the 400hz HD spike and was concerned...until I read your notes ;) Performance is surprisingly good at their price point. Thanks for the review!
 
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This is exactly the kind of information and page I would love to see when trying to pick out new drivers. The amount of data and the review is unbiased and articulate!

This is excellent data. Can’t wait to see more ;)
 

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Hi Erin,
Recently I bought these drivers and want to build a 0.5 liters enclosure... But, how would u aim them.
45 degrees in windscreen/a-sale corners aimed towards next seat passengers' inner ear?
Or much more on axis and use dsp's EQ to flatten...?
My plan is to use them 300 - 5000hz.

They sound pretty good btw.

Thanks in advance.

Greetings
Don Camillo
 

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quick listening test will answer all of your questions
 
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Hi Erin,
Recently I bought these drivers and want to build a 0.5 liters enclosure... But, how would u aim them.
45 degrees in windscreen/a-sale corners aimed towards next seat passengers' inner ear?
Or much more on axis and use dsp's EQ to flatten...?
My plan is to use them 300 - 5000hz.

They sound pretty good btw.

Thanks in advance.

Greetings
Don Camillo
For me 300 is a bit too low for these if I’m honest, they are more of a 3” and a very nice midrange to me from using mine
 

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quick listening test will answer all of your questions
Yeah thats the problem, I tried that but my windscreen dash space is pretty small, so with an enclosure attached I cant get to the exact spots were I would make custom enclosures. The curve is more optimal for 45° and that sounded pretty good. But I recall from a German forum that they wrote on axis....
And the mounting spot for the enclosure would be different if I use on axis or 45° (because of my small vintage dash)...
So I was hoping if I could find ppl here who knew what would be best to do.
 

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For me 300 is a bit too low for these if I’m honest, they are more of a 3” and a very nice midrange to me from using mine
Yeah they are small indeed... thought they would be a bit bigger. Sound is pretty good though.
I dont play very loud and didnt notice much excursion with a large cap at around 300hz. So with dsp 24db for me I think 300hz should be okay right?, cuz I dont play really loud..
 

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For me 300 is a bit too low for these if I’m honest, they are more of a 3” and a very nice midrange to me from using mine
Has anyone had success as low as 350Hz with 24dB/octave filter on these? Or, is 400Hz kind of it???

Ge0
 

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Has anyone had success as low as 350Hz with 24dB/octave filter on these? Or, is 400Hz kind of it???

Ge0
I am curious too....
But to be honest I believe the German forum even talked about 200hz. (I'll reread it tonight)

In the scan speak specs pdf they suggest 200hz in 0.5 liter closed! (And even 127hz vented in 0.9L)
Doubling the 90hz fs they give this would jndeed work. I thought Erin measured 136hz fs but maybe the driver wasnt fully burned in yet.

For SQ and not SQL my guess is 300 should work. But I take Dumdum's advice seriously, and will slowly move lower in hz. But I know Scan Speaks are very well build and can take a lot.
 

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A friend used them in his install and 315-400Hz @ 24DB/oct was good option,....at HPF of 400 they sounded a tad more clear
 

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The German forum talked about 250hz at 12db with no problems, I have checked.
It also depends on how loud u want to play. For loud SPL's 400hz is better.
I'll try 250 / 24db.

Okay for the aiming, I have 2 options, (see pics), the one on dash is exact in the corners at 45° and the lower is more in front of the dash and more inwards and on axis.

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On dash would give a little corner-db-gain in the lower end (I learned from Erin) which would be nice... but enclosures are more noticeable from outside...

Also this drivers curve is almost flat at 45° so it could work while I normally prefer on axis mostly for their better information/detail and overall sound.

But on axis curve of course can be flattened.
Higher on dash gives a bit higher stage.

So what would u guys do...??
Any thoughts? I am curious
 

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Just be careful with the high-pass filter on these smaller drivers - you don't want to go too low... I have a pair of Illusion Audio C3CX coaxials and the manufacturer actually recommends 250hz, 12dB xovers in the product literature. I tired 275hz, 12dB (I think that's what it was) while experimenting and I damaged one of them (the woofer now makes incorrect vibration-related sounds at higher volumes). It's the first speaker that I've ever damaged in my life. I've since learned not to try and have these smaller speakers play too low - especially if you like loud music.

I replaced the bad C3CX with a new one, but I no longer use the C3CX's anyway - I now use the CDT Unity 8.0 widebands (2" drivers) and REALLY like them - however, I cross them at 500hz. :) Not worth trying to make these smaller speakers player the lower frequencies - they won't do it with any real "impact" anyway.
 

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I think 350-400hz is a better setting... if you are enthusiastic with the volume... 400 would be better I think, at the end of the day it’s a pure midrange and not designed to have the xmax for enthusiastic listening for me

if in a house at lower listening levels without background noise I could see 250 being ok
 

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You will get more impact from the midbass drivers in the range of up to 250-300Hz than from tiny 4" mid with low excursion. Important is what sounds more lifelike and not bother with the lowest possible hi-pass filter you can use with given midrange. Also, with a little gap between midbass and mid you end up quickly on 315-400 hz HPF.
 

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The German forum talked about 250hz at 12db with no problems, I have checked.
It also depends on how loud u want to play. For loud SPL's 400hz is better.
I'll try 250 / 24db.

Okay for the aiming, I have 2 options, (see pics), the one on dash is exact in the corners at 45° and the lower is more in front of the dash and more inwards and on axis.

View attachment 278240

View attachment 278241

On dash would give a little corner-db-gain in the lower end (I learned from Erin) which would be nice... but enclosures are more noticeable from outside...

Also this drivers curve is almost flat at 45° so it could work while I normally prefer on axis mostly for their better information/detail and overall sound.

But on axis curve of course can be flattened.
Higher on dash gives a bit higher stage.

So what would u guys do...??
Any thoughts? I am curious
Before you go cutting up that beautiful vintage a-pillar / dash please try something. Mount your midranges in your kicks. I didn't believe this would work when someone mentioned it to me a few years ago. However, I tried it and could not believe how well it worked. This was the best sounding vehicle I had built to date.
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Just place a towel behind the drivers and set them in place. You may need to do a quick tune to adjust for the new location. But, you will be very surprised how well they can image.

Ge0
 
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Yeah thats a good idea to start a bit higher, the lowest possible or a bit higher probably wont make a huge difference, but will save the mids in the end indeed.
Thanks I will do that...!

Geo, thanks for the comment of saving the nice vintage dash, thats true and a good tip.
I was always a big fan of kickpanels, also for their better image when years ago there were no dsp's yet. I had a nice 3way about 15 yrs ago and made kickpanels for the mids. But, my legs are pretty long and when I listened alone in the car the sound was good, but with a passenger it wasnt really. And also bc of my long legs, not good for them.
The higher stage of a pillar/dash setup is for me a better option I think. But I will try it this weekend, because another plus with kicks is that the speakers arent visible from outside. And on dash are, also for stereo thieves. I dont know if those exists anymore, but decades ago it was terrible...

I do have bought another dash so I save the original and make them in the used one and put new vinyl on everything...
Nice Scans in those kicks btw!👍
They sound even better than the 10f, (but also a bit bigger)...
 

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Before you go cutting up that beautiful vintage a-pillar / dash please try something. Mount your midranges in your kicks. I didn't believe this would work when someone mentioned it to me a few years ago. However, I tried it and could not believe how well it worked. This was the best sounding vehicle I had built to date.
View attachment 278348

View attachment 278349

Just place a towel behind the drivers and set them in place. You may need to do a quick tune to adjust for the new location. But, you will be very surprised how well they can image.

Ge0
Okay first thanks again for mentioning the kickpanel tip, that I even didnt try the last years because of past experiences and wanting a higher stage.

I listened to some enclosures I had from the floor, and I must say; I really was surprised at how nice it sounded!... After adjusting the crossover so overlapp with the mid in door was gone, and the 10f in kicks sounded very nice!! I even had a nice high soundstage, better image, and very noticeable was also the more equal pathlengths of the drivers to my ears, compared to on dash (but passive without dsp TA).

So the kickpanel option is a good one especially you dont see the drivers mounted on dash enclosures with my thin a- pillars! 👍

However, I didnt listen with a passenger yet, gonna do that this weekend... My past experience with kickpanels are legs get inthe way of sound...

And they are aimed to the sunroof, which when open (like I often have since its my summer car) makes the sound louder outside.... than on dash on axis.... But when truly listening I often have everything closed (if not to hot).

But I also want to make 6 or 8" in kick room, venting in sills.... --> I think this might be a problem... isnt it that the waves created by the lows will mess up the 350hz and up waves from the 10f mids, which lay in front of them?

For this maybe its better to mount the mid just a little higher. Then also my foot can rest under it (and not just in front)....
 

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I realise I am messing up Erin's topic with my personal install build.
Perhaps its better to create a new install topic or log for this... isnt it?
I can do that later, gotta go now bc of work...
 

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Did those come from the factory with speakers?
If so, then where are those speaker holes?
 
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