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Discussion Starter #21
The verdict is in- this sub is SQ sweet! i like it when you make a plan on paper that looks very promising and then the execution all comes together just as planned!
In this case i was looking for a big SQ upgrade for my subwoofer that played much lower frequencies than the original driver in the same exact enclosure. I was missing that in my music and wanted to regain the really lowest of the lows almost home theatre style but not sound sloppy, boomy or be a one note wonder.

In all actuality this particular upgrade exceeded my expectations. Look at the attached RTA plot.
The yellow curve is the old sub and the green curve is the ScanSpeak discovery. Same amp gain, same head unit channel level, same volume, same pink noise track, identical mic position, identical crossover and no equalization. it is an apples to apples comparison.
The Scan subwoofer is up 14 db @ 20 Hz and up 8db @ 30 Hz!!!! This is huge and so is the sound!!

I am not trying to degrade the previous subwoofer, it is just that it was not to my liking. It had a very solid hit when called upon- almost too solid. No timbre or tonality, just a hard physical one note slam.
Some people may like that and for certain types of music this works the best.

The ScanSpeak on the other hand can produce the physical "punch" but the sound has more than one dimension- it has a distinct build up, crescendo and timbre (but all this happens in the blink of an eye). Not just a quick on / quick off slam.
It also makes the sound in my car more full and warm. It must have an extended upper range as well that allows some contribution as it rolls past the 80 Hz low pass crossover.

Not your 1 kilowatt rocket launcher sub by any definition but a very highly recommend subwoofer nonetheless if you want low extended musical bass with definition and the thunderous power that comes with being able to reproduce those notes.
 

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Genesis was one of my favorite bands as a child, and I discovered their older material a few years ago. Firth of Fifth is one of many great songs from before their pop transition. It's chilling watching some of the Genesis live performance videos with Peter Gabriel on YouTube.
 
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Wow, that is a serious difference in low end extension there. I'm glad that you are happy with the new sub still. On looking at your rta plots tho, did you do some tuning to your midbass/midranges? There seems to be quite a rise at 200, 500 and roughly 1500 Hz from your previous readings. It actually makes your overall curve look a little umm... smoother however. I also noticed that you are still getting a rather large dip at around 70 Hz. It actually looks like the gulf is widened quite a bit there too. Have you tried reversing polarity on the sub there? I noticed my gulf widened quite a bit when I reversed the polarity on my sub. Just me 2c. I can't wait until I get my new amp in - probably sometime this week coming up. Then I'll have to decide what to do with my midbasses (if anything). Good thing I am rather low on cash at the moment and my midbasses aren't having issues like I thought.
 

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Discussion Starter #24
Genesis was one of my favorite bands as a child, and I discovered their older material a few years ago. Firth of Fifth is one of many great songs from before their pop transition. It's chilling watching some of the Genesis live performance videos with Peter Gabriel on YouTube.
cool, they were my favorite band as a young teenager- my older cousins were serious music fans and turned me on to progressive rock. selling england is my favorite album- they just do not make music like this anymore- truly artistic, classical based, long extended songs, etc. The keyboard interludes that close out "cinema show" are unbelievable and sound awesome in the car, especially if you have your midrange frequencies up high. i played that after i installed the L3SEs and was transformed into another world.
gabriel was an artistic genius, those u-tube videos of the early days show that he was a little too "out there" for most but eventually he reeled it in nicely.

if having a nice system is still all about the music then it becomes even more valuable.
 

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Discussion Starter #25
Wow, that is a serious difference in low end extension there. I'm glad that you are happy with the new sub still. On looking at your rta plots tho, did you do some tuning to your midbass/midranges? There seems to be quite a rise at 200, 500 and roughly 1500 Hz from your previous readings. It actually makes your overall curve look a little umm... smoother however. I also noticed that you are still getting a rather large dip at around 70 Hz. It actually looks like the gulf is widened quite a bit there too. Have you tried reversing polarity on the sub there? I noticed my gulf widened quite a bit when I reversed the polarity on my sub. Just me 2c. I can't wait until I get my new amp in - probably sometime this week coming up. Then I'll have to decide what to do with my midbasses (if anything). Good thing I am rather low on cash at the moment and my midbasses aren't having issues like I thought.
yeah, i am surprised at the way the curve looked too- the 200 Hz valley is gone for some reason, I can only think the new sub plays higher. no boost added, just some cuts between 100 Hz- to 400 Hz if anything- done by ear not by the RTA.
I did do lots of experimenting with crossover points, slopes, phase etc to try and raise the 70 Hz valley but in the end the original settings sounded and looked the best- 80 Hz / 36 db for sub and midbass, sub was always reverse phase.
However everything above 150 Hz may not be entirely accurate relative to the yellow curve because I did not average multiple mic positions for the green curve. Below 150 Hz averaging is pretty identical to individual mic readings- although I usually always get the 200 Hz valley.
I guess the 70 Hz valley is based on vehicle issues / standing waves at ear level.
I did a little research about this on some home theater forums and some people have success filling in holes using multiple subs.
This will not be on my to-do list anytime soon!

Good luck with your new amp- i bet you see a nice difference, keep us posted.
 

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I've most recently went from a JL 10W6v2 to a 10w7 to 12w7 and now the ID Max 12" (all sealed enclosures) a step pretty much in the right direction every time...since the ID Max I've been stung again to try something maybe even better "the" Morel Ultimo 12" From what I've read that seems to be exactly what I'm looking for; I'm growing tired of aggressive subwoofer that play loud but have no finesse in doing so, I'm not saying the above don't have finesse, they just seem to add something to the music that doesn't belong, they either play too loud or not loud enough, some music sounds good other doesn't!? The ID Max is the best subwoofer that I have owned, but after reading reviews here and there the morel seem to be where it's at!

I've spent ssssoooo much money on car audio that if it only takes $700 to finally find true sub happiness (hopefully) I'd be willing to spend it.


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Im going to get my car tuned by one of diy members and I have Morel Ultime playing on Mosconi 300.2 amp @4 ohm and I truly love it. I had jl 10w7. IDMAX 12" and you just cant go wrong with Morel.

It really blends with my front stage Morel mids and vifa tweets.
I spend well over 5k on my car audio. Just experience and this being as a hobby of mine drove me nuts when I sat down and added everything not includeing the labor that I did.

Get your last peace of puzzle and u be very happy.... im sure not everyone wants to spend that kind of money on a sub. But u really pay for what you get.
My sub gets maybe 500-800 w rms on good days and its amezing!

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2
 

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Im going to get my car tuned by one of diy members and I have Morel Ultime playing on Mosconi 300.2 amp @4 ohm and I truly love it. I had jl 10w7. IDMAX 12" and you just cant go wrong with Morel.

It really blends with my front stage Morel mids and vifa tweets.
I spend well over 5k on my car audio. Just experience and this being as a hobby of mine drove me nuts when I sat down and added everything not includeing the labor that I did.

Get your last peace of puzzle and u be very happy.... im sure not everyone wants to spend that kind of money on a sub. But u really pay for what you get.
My sub gets maybe 500-800 w rms on good days and its amezing!

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2
I have my Morel 12 2 ohm powered by my Audison LRx5.1k which can provide 1150 watts rms. I really would love to hear your setup. Moving completely to Mosconi power is something I really would love to do but too bad they are so damned expensive and I already have so much invested. I am told there would be a big difference but it is alot of money to spend on something that I might not notice a difference in sound. The Ultimo is the best sub I have owned but then again I have only owned a Boston G210 and a Hertz ML2500 before in my setup. I do think I could use a larger box for it. I want it to still be stealth however and the only way I can think of to make it larger would require fiberglass and a false floor. Maybe next year:rolleyes:. I think my 8-10 inch midbass project will happen before that however:D:eek::cool:
 

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I went to meet up a friend from DIY today, and he was very impressed with my system, and how Mosconi amps and Morel Sub preformed. He loved it... also he loved the way H800 works in my car, and overall how it sounds... After tuning my system, new image has hit my ears and i was in love....

I don’t think I could go back to normal car listening, what an experience....
And yes, Mosconi amps are expensive, and I went from JL, to Zuki, to Mosconi… and WoW…
These amps really made my ears shine, you will notice big difference, I’m not saying all the brands that I had are bad in anyway. I just think it’s a big step up from Zuki to Mosconi… I have noticed so much more detail; speakers are so much faster, crisp and clean. Does it get loud??? Yes it does and its nice and clean! Car audio hobby isn’t cheep at all, I have save dup for my setup for very long time until I was able to purchase it. I’m glad I save dup and bought them. When I got home my good friend has jumped in to a passenger side and he said why does it sound funny like the sound is out of place.. I started laughing, and said have a seat in the driver side. I told him to relax, close his eyes, and just enjoy,
Haha, when the song was over, he didn’t know what to say!... he was shocked!
 

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After testing about 30 or so 12" subs, (not the edible kind) most had an F3 of 45 to 50 Hz or above. To me, if your sub starts rolling off 3 db and 12 db per octave at 45 or 50 Hz, it is not doing its job! Basically you have a speaker that plays from 50 to 80Hz- no wonder it sounds like a one note wonder and is either on or off depending on the music!
I really agree with you here. I only have a 12W0, in a stealthbox, getting 200w from a JL XD amp. And it can hit decently hard on certain things, but I can tell that at certain postions on the bass neck, the difference in how loud the notes are. It almost seems like the sub isn't even on till just the right note gets played, like wheres most of the top e bass string???

I am far from an experience SQ guy nor am I a critical listener, but I am a guitar player, that can tell when something is missing.

Glad your are enjoying your new sub. Thanks for the write up.
 

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I run the Ultimo and it is definitely an acquired taste. I was told once, when I was looking around, the difference between the Ultimo and the IDMax is the IDMax is more likely to fill your vehicle with powerful bass and be more of an spl sub than the Ultimo ever would be. The Ultimo is pure sq. It does everything it should and nothing more. It digs deep and it blends effortlessly. It will never wake the neighbors however. Oh, and the Ultimo requires a shit tonne of power and that is no joke. If you don't have 1000 watts rms for it, don't even bother. I was told more like 1200 watts rms actually. I am running 1150 rms and I actually think at times it could use more.

I wonder if the lesser (more in my current budget) Primo would be a bit more agreeable?
 

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i got myself this scanspeak cause of the review. Its been about a week and a half since installing it. it really blends in well with my front stage.
it doesnt sound like i have a 'sub' in my car. instead it adds a really nice warmth to the music.
i been listening to a lot of pipe organ music and my old sub wasnt cutting it. when the low notes hit, it distorted and wobbled all over. with the scanspeak, it hits and holds the note maintaining that airy deep rumble.
 

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Any chance that the 10" would give a similar quality of bass (12" will not fit my truck)?
i needed a 10" too, but i really wanted the depth(on paper) of the 12". i put mine into a .83cu^ft with a port tuned at 24hz.
i cant say anything about the 10" discovery, tho.
 

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Discussion Starter #34
update 10/12/12

after running this sub for a month the thing is still breaking in. just this past week i noticed it was louder and more apparent than it has been on bass heavy music. i actually had to back off on my deck's subwoofer level control by 3db in order to balance it out.
it continues to be a very smooth musical SQ sub that can really play and sustain the dramatic low notes and frequencies. the sub can still rock though- it can deliver a mean punch when called for and still blend with the rest of the system. in all fairness though the time alignment is probably a big help with this aspect. no regrets and i'd buy it again in an instant.
 

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Im going to get my car tuned by one of diy members and I have Morel Ultime playing on Mosconi 300.2 amp @4 ohm and I truly love it. I had jl 10w7. IDMAX 12" and you just cant go wrong with Morel.

It really blends with my front stage Morel mids and vifa tweets.
I spend well over 5k on my car audio. Just experience and this being as a hobby of mine drove me nuts when I sat down and added everything not includeing the labor that I did.

Get your last peace of puzzle and u be very happy.... im sure not everyone wants to spend that kind of money on a sub. But u really pay for what you get.
My sub gets maybe 500-800 w rms on good days and its amezing!

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2

Sorry I missed your reply, thx...I'm pretty much sold on getting 1-12"Morel Ultimo or 2x10" Morel sc (or 2x12")...I'm not giving up on maybe 1x12" Dynaudio if the opportunity presents itself :)

Yes Card Audio is expensive but for me worth it!
 

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update 10/12/12

after running this sub for a month the thing is still breaking in. just this past week i noticed it was louder and more apparent than it has been on bass heavy music. i actually had to back off on my deck's subwoofer level control by 3db in order to balance it out.
it continues to be a very smooth musical SQ sub that can really play and sustain the dramatic low notes and frequencies. the sub can still rock though- it can deliver a mean punch when called for and still blend with the rest of the system. in all fairness though the time alignment is probably a big help with this aspect. no regrets and i'd buy it again in an instant.


You definitely have me considering this, and I'm glad it's working out well. From what I can tell it would fit my application pretty good, and is the right depth, just a matter of getting the $$ to get it. Looks like I'll have to sell off some other stuff along with the JL sub in there now.

The really big bonus here, is that my tweeters and sub will both be made by scanspeak, after all that's most important thing to consider in mobile audio right?...j/k LOL
 

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I am having an itch to try this subwoofer out. It seems based on reviews like it's a good high end subwoofer comparable to high end JBL and JL subwoofers. It would be great to have it in my car, but a car audio install will probably wait as I wouldn't want to "waste" this subwoofer in a crappy install I have right now. I am thinking of using it as a home audio subwoofer in a 2cu ft sealed box, coupled with a two way TM or MTM speaker system.
 

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Congratz on your new ScanSpeak sub, not so good for JL Audio since i heard and had the idea they were the best sq subs out there but after reading all this, you got me thinking twice. lol.....

I do have a few question that i hope you can answer:

1) A good quality subwoofer that only needs 175w Rms feed can play lower notes/more quality bass inside a vehicle than another sub that requires 250w Rms?

2) which of the two would be louder though?

3) How can you take freq. response into account and bring it into the mix with the previous questions to get the best quality bass in a sealed box that does not disturb the neighbors but instead fills your car ?
 
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