I have a PBR300X1 powering a image dynamics ID12 v3 wired to 1ohm. The amp is supposed to make 300rms at 1ohm,and it does not seem to be nearly as loud as it should be. Even with the gain almost all of the way up (which I know can be harmful), it still isn't nearly as loud as my 200 watt rms kicker amp was with an old american bass 12". I was wondering if anyone had any idea what could be the problem. I did notice that it has a connection for a bass knob, but I do not have one for it. Is it possible that the previous owner used one and had it turned down, and upon unplugging it kept the setting where it was? That doesn't seem right to me, but I figured it might be worth mentioning. Any ideas are appreciated. Thank you
Rockford pbr300x1 doesn't seem to make enough power
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Since you don't provide much detail about how it is wired, let's start with the basics...
What type of source is feeding the amp? RCA? Speaker level?
What is the source unit (make/model head unit)?
How is the amp connected to the battery? Wire size? Fuse Size?
Most important -> how is it grounded? Did you sand away to bare metal at ground point?
How did you set the gain?
Anything else you can tell us about the rest of the system & how it is connected?
What type of source is feeding the amp? RCA? Speaker level?
What is the source unit (make/model head unit)?
How is the amp connected to the battery? Wire size? Fuse Size?
Most important -> how is it grounded? Did you sand away to bare metal at ground point?
How did you set the gain?
Anything else you can tell us about the rest of the system & how it is connected?
Thank you for your replies so far
miniSQ:
That's what I though, but i figured I should point it out.
Yes, and I popped a multi meter on just to make sure.
The whole purpose of the new setup was to improve over the old one. I am using a more efficient sub with a more powerful amp and the overall output is SIGNIFICANTLY lower. I actually expected it to be a little lower, as the old setup was very boomy, but I do not feel it should be this much quieter. The sub is practically inaudible without cranking the gain, even with the subwoofer setting on the head unit all the way up.
The box is roughly 1ft^3, which I know is smaller than recommended. I do plan on building a new box in the spring, though. The vehicle is a subaru legacy wagon.
Jepalan:
I have an Alpine CDA-9884. I use RCA's for the signal and the power wire is a 4 gauge. Unfortunately, the terminal for the power and ground on the amp is much smaller, so I trimmed off excess wire and taped off all of the exposed area. I know that's half assed, but I did not feel like running a whole new, smaller, power wire. The fuse is a 100amp ANL style fuse. For the ground, I used a ring terminal around a bolt the secures the rear seat to the frame of the car. I DID sand down to bare metal for this.
As for the gain, I followed instructions listed on Crutchfield. I did not hear distortion even with the gain all of the way up. I have set up quite a few systems in my life, and never have I had to turn the gain as far up as I do with this set up.
The low pass is set somewhere between 100-120. It is hard to tell because the increments are quite a bit apart. The hi/low is set to low.
miniSQ:
That's what I though, but i figured I should point it out.
Yes, and I popped a multi meter on just to make sure.
The whole purpose of the new setup was to improve over the old one. I am using a more efficient sub with a more powerful amp and the overall output is SIGNIFICANTLY lower. I actually expected it to be a little lower, as the old setup was very boomy, but I do not feel it should be this much quieter. The sub is practically inaudible without cranking the gain, even with the subwoofer setting on the head unit all the way up.
The box is roughly 1ft^3, which I know is smaller than recommended. I do plan on building a new box in the spring, though. The vehicle is a subaru legacy wagon.
Jepalan:
I have an Alpine CDA-9884. I use RCA's for the signal and the power wire is a 4 gauge. Unfortunately, the terminal for the power and ground on the amp is much smaller, so I trimmed off excess wire and taped off all of the exposed area. I know that's half assed, but I did not feel like running a whole new, smaller, power wire. The fuse is a 100amp ANL style fuse. For the ground, I used a ring terminal around a bolt the secures the rear seat to the frame of the car. I DID sand down to bare metal for this.
As for the gain, I followed instructions listed on Crutchfield. I did not hear distortion even with the gain all of the way up. I have set up quite a few systems in my life, and never have I had to turn the gain as far up as I do with this set up.
The low pass is set somewhere between 100-120. It is hard to tell because the increments are quite a bit apart. The hi/low is set to low.
Is your ground may be part of the issue, seat belt bolt locations often need much attention to get a good solid ground. I'd try to find a new location if possible.
I ASSuMe you have a HPF active for the full-range speakers, correct?
And just how new is the sub? Granted I've never been around a sub what was so stiff to be near inaudible when 3/4 rated power is applied.
Didn't recall if you said the High/Low level switch was set to high or low. Should be set for low if using the preamp outputs as you are.
I ASSuMe you have a HPF active for the full-range speakers, correct?
And just how new is the sub? Granted I've never been around a sub what was so stiff to be near inaudible when 3/4 rated power is applied.
Didn't recall if you said the High/Low level switch was set to high or low. Should be set for low if using the preamp outputs as you are.
Really? I figured that, since it was bolted directly to the frame, it would give quite a good ground. I can try a different location anyway.
Yes, I am using the HPF that is programmed into the head unit for the speakers.
The sub is only a few weeks old, so probably will break in a little bit.
I have not measured the output of the amp, and do not have the means to do so.
Yes, I am using the HPF that is programmed into the head unit for the speakers.
The sub is only a few weeks old, so probably will break in a little bit.
I have not measured the output of the amp, and do not have the means to do so.
I'm not sure what car you have, how in depth your prep work was, or anything of the sort. However, the ground is often a major player in a poorly functional setup. Is it sure to be your issue? I can't guarantee it, but I do suspect it to be so.
A photo could allow many of us to confirm if it's likley decent or in fact needs attention.
Issue with seat and seat belt bolt locations are that people often sandwich the ground between the bolt and the bracket for the seat or seat belt. When doing such, they often don't even sand anything at all, but even if they do, it's usually just the top of the seat or seat belt bracket, which one must remember there's two sides coated in paint, as well as the body of the vehicle. This usually leads to the threading of the bolt providing much of the ground connection, which the bolt threads and the threading of the body are often a little rusty or coated with dirt, which weakens the electrical connection. And in cases of some seat brackets, there's even carpet sandwiched between the bracket and the body of the vehicle.
Can these locations work? Yes, but as I said, they often need a lot of prep work.
With the use of a HPF and LPF being used properly, that rules out cancellation between drivers and the underlying cause.
Sub MAY have an overly stiff suspension, so it could take many hours to break it in to achieve noticeable improvement. Though, one shouldn't have noticeably lacking output. Less than the old fully broken in sub, possibly, but...
Don't have a DMM? Granted it's not ideal, but it'd give an idea.
A photo could allow many of us to confirm if it's likley decent or in fact needs attention.
Issue with seat and seat belt bolt locations are that people often sandwich the ground between the bolt and the bracket for the seat or seat belt. When doing such, they often don't even sand anything at all, but even if they do, it's usually just the top of the seat or seat belt bracket, which one must remember there's two sides coated in paint, as well as the body of the vehicle. This usually leads to the threading of the bolt providing much of the ground connection, which the bolt threads and the threading of the body are often a little rusty or coated with dirt, which weakens the electrical connection. And in cases of some seat brackets, there's even carpet sandwiched between the bracket and the body of the vehicle.
Can these locations work? Yes, but as I said, they often need a lot of prep work.
With the use of a HPF and LPF being used properly, that rules out cancellation between drivers and the underlying cause.
Sub MAY have an overly stiff suspension, so it could take many hours to break it in to achieve noticeable improvement. Though, one shouldn't have noticeably lacking output. Less than the old fully broken in sub, possibly, but...
Don't have a DMM? Granted it's not ideal, but it'd give an idea.
That all makes pretty good sense. I will try a better ground location this weekend.
As for cancellation between door speakers and subs...I don't think those crappy stock speakers could actually produce enough bass to cause any cancellation anyway haha, but it was definitely a good thought.
Lastly, I do have a multimeter, but I always kind of assumed I needed some fancy equipment to do any sort of idea of power output. I suppose that does make me an ass. What is a safe, proper way to do some testing? If you know of a good source, feel free to link me.
Thank you very much for your help.
As for cancellation between door speakers and subs...I don't think those crappy stock speakers could actually produce enough bass to cause any cancellation anyway haha, but it was definitely a good thought.
Lastly, I do have a multimeter, but I always kind of assumed I needed some fancy equipment to do any sort of idea of power output. I suppose that does make me an ass. What is a safe, proper way to do some testing? If you know of a good source, feel free to link me.
Thank you very much for your help.
Yes, please do try to locate (or make) a new ground or be sure to properly address the ground location.
While your OEM speakers may well perform very poorly on lows, they could still create cancellation if allowed to play the same frequencies. Try allowing them to play full-range and you'll likely notice even less output in your upper lows or perhaps even a slight bump, though the quality of the added output would surely be questionable. If there is no cancellation between them whatsoever when allowed to play full-range, there should be no audible difference. But you're HPF'ing them and that's the best route, so I'd not even mess with it any further.
A standard DMM isn't going to provide the most accurate reading, but neither would a True RMS DMM, though it'd better. You can wire the probes of the DMM to the speaker terminals of the amplifier and play test tones while measuring for AC voltage.
While the method isn't an exact, there's a formula that is often used when using a DMM to set gains. Following such method, you'd be looking to get 17vRMS or so. Guess if you don't get but half that or something then you could well have too poor of a ground or some other issue. Given the DMM isn't likely to be the most accurate, you can play various frequencies within the subwoofer's range and see what they all read. Common belief is that most DMMs are most accurate around 50-60Hz, though I know not how much truth this holds. Still, if you were to find most frequencies measured considerably less than those around 50-60Hz, it could prove to back up such statements. I can sat I've really noticed such with my DMM though, seemed last I used it in such a manor, there was very little difference in measured output between frequencies.
Oh, and you'll want to make sure the EQ is set to flat and no boost are being used, this would obviously change the levels of various frequencies.
Let us know what you find.
Also, your old Kicker, depending on just how old it was, may well have produced near double it's rated power. And American Bass has had some fairly decent higher output subs. Image Dynamics tends to have better support/more of a following with their higher level models, though that's not to say the ID12V3 is bad. I've heard a set of older ID10's years ago that weren't to shabby for cheap subs.
You also said the enclosure is but 1cuft, so that will have an impact on performance as well. Adding some polyfil to it should gain you a little better performance. Add 1 pound to your enclosure loosely stuffed inside.
Sort of wish we knew the model number of the old American Bass sub and the Kicker amp, we could at least run it through WinISD and compare it to the ID12v3.
While your OEM speakers may well perform very poorly on lows, they could still create cancellation if allowed to play the same frequencies. Try allowing them to play full-range and you'll likely notice even less output in your upper lows or perhaps even a slight bump, though the quality of the added output would surely be questionable. If there is no cancellation between them whatsoever when allowed to play full-range, there should be no audible difference. But you're HPF'ing them and that's the best route, so I'd not even mess with it any further.
A standard DMM isn't going to provide the most accurate reading, but neither would a True RMS DMM, though it'd better. You can wire the probes of the DMM to the speaker terminals of the amplifier and play test tones while measuring for AC voltage.
While the method isn't an exact, there's a formula that is often used when using a DMM to set gains. Following such method, you'd be looking to get 17vRMS or so. Guess if you don't get but half that or something then you could well have too poor of a ground or some other issue. Given the DMM isn't likely to be the most accurate, you can play various frequencies within the subwoofer's range and see what they all read. Common belief is that most DMMs are most accurate around 50-60Hz, though I know not how much truth this holds. Still, if you were to find most frequencies measured considerably less than those around 50-60Hz, it could prove to back up such statements. I can sat I've really noticed such with my DMM though, seemed last I used it in such a manor, there was very little difference in measured output between frequencies.
Oh, and you'll want to make sure the EQ is set to flat and no boost are being used, this would obviously change the levels of various frequencies.
Let us know what you find.
Also, your old Kicker, depending on just how old it was, may well have produced near double it's rated power. And American Bass has had some fairly decent higher output subs. Image Dynamics tends to have better support/more of a following with their higher level models, though that's not to say the ID12V3 is bad. I've heard a set of older ID10's years ago that weren't to shabby for cheap subs.
You also said the enclosure is but 1cuft, so that will have an impact on performance as well. Adding some polyfil to it should gain you a little better performance. Add 1 pound to your enclosure loosely stuffed inside.
Sort of wish we knew the model number of the old American Bass sub and the Kicker amp, we could at least run it through WinISD and compare it to the ID12v3.
I'm happy with mine. Sounds plenty loud, but does get really hot.
I've got a PBR300X4 as well, pushing Kicker 6.5" CS65's. Gets plenty loud, but not the best sounding setup, I blame the kickers more so than the RF. No idea on how hot it runs, got it tucked up under the dash. Still, most drives aren't buy 20 minutes through town.
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237 Posts
2 thoughts does the head unit have a built in lpf if it does in tandem with the amps lpf it could cause lower output due to the steep cutoff slope defeat one of them or turn it all the way up. Also is it possible you may have hooked the amp up to the wrong set of preouts? Just some ideas.
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