DIYMobileAudio.com Car Stereo Forum banner
1 - 20 of 49 Posts

· Registered
Joined
·
633 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
What's going on...has anyone had any experience or heard of anyone running their SQLs in IB in the trunk? I know the QTS is erring on the side of lower than ideal but not by a huge amount.

I'm working towards the final stages of my (revised) build and while my first choice is to run 18s IB off of a bridged 4 channel, if it is not feasible I'm trying to find a suitable step down to 15s. I am familiar with and have enjoyed SI product over the years (running M3s in my dash currently) so the SQLs are in my sight line.

Any insight or info is appreciated.
 

· Registered
07 Accord GS9-Arc Audio dsp-Audison Voce 5.1K+Due-HAT Legatia SE 3 way + Clarus 15 in IB
Joined
·
289 Posts
Look at the Acoustic Elegance IB line instead of the SI stuff. Also a great value and made to do what you're considering
 

· Registered
Joined
·
633 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
They've been on the radar but my only concern is if they can hang with what I like to listen to for daily play. I've seen some beautiful systems with them but have yet to see anyone or hear anyone for that matter that actually run them. I tend to listen to chiefly hip hop and soul music so things that dig pretty deep and hit pretty hard.


Look at the Acoustic Elegance IB line instead of the SI stuff. Also a great value and made to do what you're considering
 

· Registered
07 Accord GS9-Arc Audio dsp-Audison Voce 5.1K+Due-HAT Legatia SE 3 way + Clarus 15 in IB
Joined
·
289 Posts
IB might not be the best choice for your tastes. It isn't as loud and you're likely to cook the coils if you overdrive. I love mine, but I don't listen to what you like. I run my sub amp at 4 ohms. I run my SQL12 in my other car at 1 ohm in a sealed box on 1000 watts and it is louder than the HAT 15 in ib. A lot louder. But the sealed box helps it handle more power.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
633 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I ran IB once before...with a beefier sub I won't lie (HST-15) on about 1000 watts.
I'm actually not looking for it to be loud as hell...mainly "accurate" (still stuck on b.s. terminology..forgive that) or should I say a closer representation of real bass without all of the distortion. I just left a sealed setup and it wasn't what I needed, I've run that same HST ported and it was cool but mainly just brute force...I'm just trying to find a balance. My hope is that actually doing IB with a dual setup will be the happy medium.

I love how IB sounds....just really need to find the right drivers for what I'm trying to achieve.

I appreciate you offering some feedback on it. Thank you for that.


IB might not be the best choice for your tastes. It isn't as loud and you're likely to cook the coils if you overdrive. I love mine, but I don't listen to what you like. I run my sub amp at 4 ohms. I run my SQL12 in my other car at 1 ohm in a sealed box on 1000 watts and it is louder than the HAT 15 in ib. A lot louder. But the sealed box helps it handle more power.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Esscueonly

· Registered
Joined
·
633 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
They're on the list as well. I was just looking at the 18 this morning. I will definitely keep an eye on your progress if you end up sharing how things turn out.


Any sub can run in IB, it's just a matter of controlling the power drive to them. I have a Fi Audio IB3 18 I'm starting an install on. have you looked into their subs?

I'll be shocked if I break the mid 130 dB's with it, but the SQ, saving space and weight were more important.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sounds_Insane

· Registered
Joined
·
4,298 Posts
What's going on...has anyone had any experience or heard of anyone running their SQLs in IB in the trunk? I know the QTS is erring on the side of lower than ideal but not by a huge amount.

I'm working towards the final stages of my (revised) build and while my first choice is to run 18s IB off of a bridged 4 channel, if it is not feasible I'm trying to find a suitable step down to 15s. I am familiar with and have enjoyed SI product over the years (running M3s in my dash currently) so the SQLs are in my sight line.

Any insight or info is appreciated.
Just going by what is often said about midbasses, if you high-pass at or above the Fs then the Qts doesn't matter. I imagine the same could be applied to subwoofers with either a shallow slope high-pass or a Linkwitz transform to control the behavior below Fs.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Freakquency

· Registered
Joined
·
2,443 Posts
What's going on...has anyone had any experience or heard of anyone running their SQLs in IB in the trunk? I know the QTS is erring on the side of lower than ideal but not by a huge amount.

I'm working towards the final stages of my (revised) build and while my first choice is to run 18s IB off of a bridged 4 channel, if it is not feasible I'm trying to find a suitable step down to 15s. I am familiar with and have enjoyed SI product over the years (running M3s in my dash currently) so the SQLs are in my sight line.

Any insight or info is appreciated.
Seen the SQL15D2 x 2 run in huge sealed boxes for HT use (almost 8 cuft) which is pseudo IB with success but as mentioned the SPL is much lower.

Owner wasn't concerned with SPL as he ran the HT at much lower levels than most and in a very small room so he was happy.

Modeled for full IB in WinISD they will handle the full rated 1kW from 20Hz up but in order to avoid infrasonic overexcursion you'll need an 11Hz HP at LR4.

100 cuft modeled on 1,000 Watts (Single SQL15D2) - note Frequency goes all the way down to 2Hz in this graphic to capture all infrasonic motion.
Computer Personal computer Rectangle Slope Font

Rectangle Slope Font Plot Line

Rectangle Personal computer Slope Computer Font
 

· Registered
Joined
·
202 Posts
If you look at the impedance curve, you really need to high pass a ways beyond Fs (an octave or so, depending on the speaker) with a relatively steep slope (24db) to escape the effects around Fs (high distortion, etc). Nobody is going to hear distortion at ~30Hz so this has limited applicability to subs in a car (thanks to cabin gain).
But it any case, simply high passing @ Fs and thinking Qts/Qtc doesn't matter is an incorrect over simplification as the speaker will still have significant output at the crossover frequency (even with an LR24 x/o).
Why not just get a sub made for IB like an AE 18AU?
 

· Registered
Joined
·
633 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
If you look at the impedance curve, you really need to high pass a ways beyond Fs (an octave or so, depending on the speaker) with a relatively steep slope (24db) to escape the effects around Fs (high distortion, etc). Nobody is going to hear distortion at ~30Hz so this has limited applicability to subs in a car (thanks to cabin gain).
But it any case, simply high passing @ Fs and thinking Qts/Qtc doesn't matter is an incorrect over simplification as the speaker will still have significant output at the crossover frequency (even with an LR24 x/o).
Why not just get a sub made for IB like an AE 18AU?

Yeah, I just need to actually hear the AEs in a real world application. I feel like if you're listening to reference music or specific genres then those are likely some of, if not the best, IB subs on the market...I know it's a hated genre around here for a myriad of reasons (warranted and unwarranted) but I'm mostly a hip hop fan....usually dabbling a bit in the newer stuff depending on the artist but actually majority of it is from about '91 to 2010 with some variance throughout.

So, believe it or not, a lot of the stuff I listen to deserves the same level of tuning and accuracy as a MECA competition disc. I had the opportunity to hear some great setups at SVR and while I'm not going to spend 30 grand on a daily driver that will NEVER compete and likely won't show anywhere but a meet....I am willing to commit some money to ensuring that my listening experience is pleasurable driving in this mid Atlantic cesspool of traffic that I deal with daily.

I have a pretty robust list of subwoofers that I'm looking at...AE, Dayton, Fi, SI....I could go on.

For reference here is my system (which is being tweaked after a failed first go round): Factory JBL radio (it's integrated into the car), PAC Ampro optical out to a Helix DSP Pro, Scanspeak D3004 ring radiator tweets, SI Carbon M3 mids, Audio Development W8000neos.....Ground Zero Uranium 200.6. Big 3 is done with a Singer 270 alternator and 3 runs of 1/0 to the trunk.

Depending on where I land with subs that will determine what amp I get to power them.

I used to run 2 HST-11s on a Sundown Salt 4K but I ruined the subs by my own foolishness and am selling the Salt because I'm not trying to run all that power again.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
633 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Thank you for taking the time to model those for me.
Would you mind running one more scenario for me? I'm not proficient with WinISD.
2 of these; Dayton Audio RSS390HE-22 15" Reference Series High Excursion Subwoofer 2+2 ohm (parts-express.com)


Seen the SQL15D2 x 2 run in huge sealed boxes for HT use (almost 8 cuft) which is pseudo IB with success but as mentioned the SPL is much lower.

Owner wasn't concerned with SPL as he ran the HT at much lower levels than most and in a very small room so he was happy.

Modeled for full IB in WinISD they will handle the full rated 1kW from 20Hz up but in order to avoid infrasonic overexcursion you'll need an 11Hz HP at LR4.

100 cuft modeled on 1,000 Watts (Single SQL15D2) - note Frequency goes all the way down to 2Hz in this graphic to capture all infrasonic motion.
View attachment 334234
View attachment 334235
View attachment 334236
 

· Registered
2014 VW CC Sport
Joined
·
1,805 Posts
Look at the Acoustic Elegance IB line instead of the SI stuff. Also a great value and made to do what you're considering
SI has an IB18 but he doesn’t list it on his site. He makes them to order. I have one in my vw cc and quickaudi on here has exact same sub. So does one other person. Just no one calls and ask him and I have told many people.

 

· Registered
2014 VW CC Sport
Joined
·
1,805 Posts
IB might not be the best choice for your tastes. It isn't as loud and you're likely to cook the coils if you overdrive. I love mine, but I don't listen to what you like. I run my sub amp at 4 ohms. I run my SQL12 in my other car at 1 ohm in a sealed box on 1000 watts and it is louder than the HAT 15 in ib. A lot louder. But the sealed box helps it handle more power.
my SI IB18 hits 140 @20hz. That’s pretty loud. I had subs in ported and sealed in same car and this blows them away.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
633 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
SI has an IB18 but he doesn’t list it on his site. He makes them to order. I have one in my vw cc and quickaudi on here has exact same sub. So does one other person. Just no one calls and ask him and I have told many people.


Oh ****....I have seen this video. Nice. Do you mind PM'ing real quick...I'm curious on the pricing
 

· Registered
Joined
·
2,443 Posts
Thank you for taking the time to model those for me.
Would you mind running one more scenario for me? I'm not proficient with WinISD.
2 of these; Dayton Audio RSS390HE-22 15" Reference Series High Excursion Subwoofer 2+2 ohm (parts-express.com)
x2 on the SI IB Subs -AND- Nick will degauss any Sub to make the Qts more acceptable for IB if you really want the SQL instead of a one off IB (might be more affordable...)

Before I model anything else - tell me what car and are you really going IB like the Audi Wagon or will this be a wall behind the rear seat and "trunk baffle"?

A leaky trunk baffle is less IB than a setup like the Audi but you still get the benefits of reduced Qts and the extended bottom octave.

FWIW - Music choice does not matter - IMO - as a well tuned and accurate system is about reproducing what the artist and their team of engineers and producers intended.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Freakquency

· Registered
Joined
·
633 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
That is an important question...guess I should have been more clear about that out of the gate but like many things we all just flow with the way things have always been said. It's certainly not like the Audi or anyone that has it venting to atmosphere like true IB..this is definitely like most of us and is a trunk baffle situation. It's in a 2019 Toyota Avalon.

I agree with you wholeheartedly about the music comment....I am ice skating uphill with most of the artists that I lean towards due to them likely not having the type of money and access that a lot of artists may have on tap to record in the best location with the best engineers. The very DIY nature of hip hop is still very real and persistent...at the expense of sound quality in a lot of situations. Sometimes it gives it charm...sometimes it robs the recordings of the chance to really sparkle. All depends.



x2 on the SI IB Subs -AND- Nick will degauss any Sub to make the Qts more acceptable for IB if you really want the SQL instead of a one off IB (might be more affordable...)

Before I model anything else - tell me what car and are you really going IB like the Audi Wagon or will this be a wall behind the rear seat and "trunk baffle"?

A leaky trunk baffle is less IB than a setup like the Audi but you still get the benefits of reduced Qts and the extended bottom octave.

FWIW - Music choice does not matter - IMO - as a well tuned and accurate system is about reproducing what the artist and their team of engineers and producers intended.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
2,443 Posts
That is an important question...guess I should have been more clear about that out of the gate but like many things we all just flow with the way things have always been said. It's certainly not like the Audi or anyone that has it venting to atmosphere like true IB..this is definitely like most of us and is a trunk baffle situation. It's in a 2019 Toyota Avalon.

I agree with you wholeheartedly about the music comment....I am ice skating uphill with most of the artists that I lean towards due to them likely not having the type of money and access that a lot of artists may have on tap to record in the best location with the best engineers. The very DIY nature of hip hop is still very real and persistent...at the expense of sound quality in a lot of situations. Sometimes it gives it charm...sometimes it robs the recordings of the chance to really sparkle. All depends.
The OEM specified volume of the trunk for a '19 Avalon is ~16 cubic feet = that plus the OEM venting and shared air space back to the passenger cabin means I'll arbitrarily model to double that space (32 cubic feet) so that all drivers get shown the same airspace and not simply aiming for 0.4 Qts so that WinISD will more accurately compare drivers.

If you're planning to extensively fill the side panels between the trunk and the passenger cabin then LMK and I'll reduce that number to about 20 cubic feet but it won't change much in the model and simply keeping them all modeled to the same airspace will give you a better understanding of the difference between the SQL and a true IB Sub.

I'm working nights tomorrow night so I'll put together the comparo of SQL, SI IB, Fi IB, Dayton, and AE at that time. If there are any others you're considering LMK but try to keep it to around 5-7 drivers so the charts don't get too confusing.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
633 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Nope...I don't need any more than that...this is above and beyond what I'd hoped so that will be perfect.

I don't plan to fill any of the cavities so that volume is representative of what the environment will be. The only thing I plan to do is wrap some tessa tape around the slats on the vent grill to cut down on the noise from it opening and closing under pressure. I learned about that the hard way with my first incarnation in my trunk with dual sealed subs.

Thank you in advance for all of this.


The OEM specified volume of the trunk for a '19 Avalon is ~16 cubic feet = that plus the OEM venting and shared air space back to the passenger cabin means I'll arbitrarily model to double that space (32 cubic feet) so that all drivers get shown the same airspace and not simply aiming for 0.4 Qts so that WinISD will more accurately compare drivers.

If you're planning to extensively fill the side panels between the trunk and the passenger cabin then LMK and I'll reduce that number to about 20 cubic feet but it won't change much in the model and simply keeping them all modeled to the same airspace will give you a better understanding of the difference between the SQL and a true IB Sub.

I'm working nights tomorrow night so I'll put together the comparo of SQL, SI IB, Fi IB, Dayton, and AE at that time. If there are any others you're considering LMK but try to keep it to around 5-7 drivers so the charts don't get too confusing.
 
1 - 20 of 49 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top