+'s and -'s of additional tuner tweets ?

1100 Views 15 Replies 10 Participants Last post by bassfromspace, Mar 4, 2009

Fish Chris

Discussion Starter · Mar 3, 2009

Okay so, back in the day, I had mids + highs, in the doors... and in the front of the dash pointed straight back.... and in the top of the dash, reflecting off of the windshield. And it sounded great.... at least to my untrained ears, from 20 to 15 years ago. I don't remember any cancellation problems, nor did I ever have any problems with running a bunch of mids and highs on only two amp channels.

But that was so freaking long ago.... and maybe I didn't know what to listen for... or maybe I just got lucky... who knows.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
So here we are all these years later, with my new system. The tweets with my Polk Audio components sound fantastic. Smooth, but plenty bright. The only thing is, tweets are SOOO directional, if I turn my head to the left or right, I lose them a lot.
I think they might sound better on the a-pillars (imaging wise) but I hear they should be kept as close as possible to the mids (which mine won't ever be able to moved from the doors).

So anyway, with no further rambling.......
What problems might I encounter if I were to add an additional pair of the same exact Polk Audio tweets that I have now, in the top of my doors, to the a-pillars pointing straight (or nearly so) back ?

Then their is the whole thing about changing the resistence on those two channels.... which would not only change things with my amp... but (if I'm not mistaken) would change the passive x-over points in my component x-overs. Hmmmmm......

Add a pair of tweets ?

Move my existing tweets to the pillars (a little further from my door mounted mids) ?

Leave as is, and don't ever turn my head to the left or right ?

Hmmm,
Your thoughts ?
Fish

See less See more

1 - 16 of 16 Posts

FoxPro5

· #2 · Mar 3, 2009 (Edited)

Was there an actual question in all of that?

Forgive my bluntness, but.....

Less threads, more experimentation and trial and error.

Also, search! This has been covered many times. A car is a bad place to reproduce stereo. Your 'sweet spot' may only allow a few inches of head movement before the illusion is lost.

89grand

· #3 · Mar 3, 2009

Your posts are a little hard to read, but anyway here's some quicky answers.

Yes the impedance will be halved with two sets of tweeters.
Yes it will change the crossover frequency when using a passive crossover.
Yes, it's often ideal to have the tweeters close to the mids, but you can good results even if you don't,
Yes try a different mounting location.
No do not just add more tweeters, especially without trying new positions or tuning for the current ones first.

TXwrxWagon

· #4 · Mar 3, 2009

Damn when I hate when I have to Agree with FoxPro5... f*ck this hurts like a knife in my VJ11/14 hybrid....

But since I prefer to "spoon feed"... you're asking for a golden egg answer that doesn't really exist. Move your existing tweeters up.. see what happens. move them 90*(degrees) away from you & the front passengers... just play with them...

yeah there have been hundreds of posts about this, directly & indirectly... but the bottom line is your car & the way you listen will affect/effect the out come....

3m double-sided body tape is great for temporary mounting while you drive...

Rob

Fish Chris

Discussion Starter · #5 · Mar 3, 2009 (Edited)

Hey guys...

FoxPro, yes, the actual question was, which of these options would likely be best to go with;

Add a pair of tweets ?

Move my existing tweets to the pillars (a little further from my door mounted mids) ?

Leave as is, and don't ever turn my head to the left or right ?

And BTW, the search function on this forum, and most forums for that matter, pretty much sucks... not to be blunt.

89grand, hard to read ? Sometimes I feel like I'm one of the few guys who actually proof reads his own posts. In fact, I've written proffessionaly (granted, not about car audio). What I would agree with, about my writing, is that it's long (I go into a lot of details) and it's probably not easy to read, for a 'lazy' reader.

Yes the impedance will be halved with two sets of tweeters.
Yes it will change the crossover frequency when using a passive crossover.
Yes, it's often ideal to have the tweeters close to the mids, but you can good results even if you don't,
Yes try a different mounting location.
No do not just add more tweeters, especially without trying new positions or tuning for the current ones first.

Thank you. All points considered.

Peace,
Fish

See less See more

89grand

· #6 · Mar 3, 2009

It's not the spelling or even the sentence structure. I just hate it when I see a post and it takes a little bit to see where the question is in the post. It's probably because I'm a lazy reader, but I usually like to see point of the post right off the bat and not things like
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

michaelsil1

· #7 · Mar 3, 2009

FoxPro5 said:
Less threads, more experimentation and trial and error.

That's a classic. :beerchug:

SQfreak

· #8 · Mar 3, 2009

Yeah it's all great times to make fun of the new guy who is excited, full of ideas and questions. Good job!

Unreal...

capnxtreme

· #9 · Mar 4, 2009

You might try running "ambient tweeters", though they should be attenuated more and crossed higher than the regular tweets, not just run in parallel.

I've been planning on playing with this when my Kef 160Q's arrive. Here are a few threads I stumbled upon recently in my search:

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...ient-tweeters.html?highlight=ambient+tweeters
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/diy-mobile-audio/47972-sounds-better-without-ta.html
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/diy-mobile-audio/47583-any-tricks-get-higher-stage.html

zwc0442

· #10 · Mar 4, 2009

I was running a set of mb quart qsd 216's in my doors with the tweeter directly above the mids and a set of boston neo type m's in the a pillars pointing towards the windshield. The extra tweets in the pillars added some but I eventually just disconnected the tweets in the doors and used the ones in the pillars and like it that way better. But the boston ones come with a crossover that lets you adjust the crossover to 3khz or 8khz with 4 different levels of attenuation. For a passive crossover they let you do a little tuning and worked allright to add a little extra up higher.

FoxPro5

· #11 · Mar 4, 2009

SQfreak said:
Yeah it's all great times to make fun of the new guy who is excited, full of ideas and questions. Good job!

Unreal...

Who made fun if the OP in this thread? Name them and quote it.

I've been in this dude's position before and some of my threads have been completely ignored. If he want's better answers, he needs to ask better questions - it's that simple. Who wants to read rambling/schizo talk? I don't, I want to help. I cannot do that if I don't know what someone is specifically after and has been succinct in their asking for it.

Mr Fish hasn't been here that long and seems to really be "into it," which is great. However, some of us talk pretty straight up and to the point and our on-line prose can be misinterpreted. If you cannot handle that, then maybe it's just not your thing. Rest assured, you will not be the first it's happened to.

Let bikinipunk be your model. He starts 47 threads a day and has been hammered for it. But, he's a very smart dude and knows his stuff. His skin is thicker and he's way better at his hobby due to his weathering. It's no coincidence.

See less See more

SQfreak

· #12 · Mar 4, 2009

FoxPro5 said:
Who made fun if the OP in this thread? Name them and quote it.

I've been in this dude's position before and some of my threads have been completely ignored. If he want's better answers, he needs to ask better questions - it's that simple. Who wants to read rambling/schizo talk? I don't, I want to help. I cannot do that if I don't know what someone is specifically after and has been succinct in their asking for it.

Mr Fish hasn't been here that long and seems to really be "into it," which is great. However, some of us talk pretty straight up and to the point and our on-line prose can be misinterpreted. If you cannot handle that, then maybe it's just not your thing. Rest assured, you will not be the first it's happened to.

Let bikinipunk be your model. He starts 47 threads a day and has been hammered for it. But, he's a very smart dude and knows his stuff. His skin is thicker and he's way better at his hobby due to his weathering. It's no coincidence.

Well the guilty conscious speaks first as the saying goes.

Rail and moan but the point is clear. There is no reason to post in someone's thread if you don't like their writing style. Ignore it and move on. To take the effort and time to criticize it though? What's the point? Why even burn the calories to type it? In what way did you think that was going to help anyone?

It is true in most all forums, "old timers" tend to develop a pompous attitude and feel they can dictate terms to new guys. Most of us are here because we have burnt through all the other places to go. We should be overly careful to keep any members we get. In my opinion, this forum's motto should be "more the merrier" not "stop bothering us with all your posts and ask the questions correctly!"

bassfromspace

· #13 · Mar 4, 2009

SQfreak said:
Well the guilty conscious speaks first as the saying goes.

Rail and moan but the point is clear. There is no reason to post in someone's thread if you don't like their writing style. Ignore it and move on. To take the effort and time to criticize it though? What's the point? Why even burn the calories to type it? In what way did you think that was going to help anyone?

It is true in most all forums, "old timers" tend to develop a pompous attitude and feel they can dictate terms to new guys. Most of us are here because we have burnt through all the other places to go. We should be overly careful to keep any members we get. In my opinion, this forum's motto should be "more the merrier" not "stop bothering us with all your posts and ask the questions correctly!"

It cuts both ways. Fish is going to have to find the balance between research and questions. I don't think anyone is out to stamp out his enthusiasm, but there's also a certain level of expectation in terms of question quality. Simply put, do a bit of research on your own. If you're still stumped, then ask. Don't ask first and research later.

SQfreak

· #14 · Mar 4, 2009

bassfromspace said:
It cuts both ways. Fish is going to have to find the balance between research and questions. I don't think anyone is out to stamp out his enthusiasm, but there's also a certain level of expectation in terms of question quality. Simply put, do a bit of research on your own. If you're still stumped, then ask. Don't ask first and research later.

Why not? Why not ask all you want too? Is he wasting someone's time.... on a forum? It is nuts that anyone would care enough to comment that they don't like that how or why he was asking questions. So what if it was covered in 2002 in an 80 page thread?

Curiosity is the fuel for innovation. We should encourage everyone to post and ask questions as much as possible. That's how you keep a healthy and active forum. I see the search as bonus resoruce and the ability to post threads as the primary means to get answers, not the other way around.

Hey maybe I'm wrong and the first thing we should do is only let people post 4 times a day, only after they have logged into the search for a total of 14 hrs with a minimum of 10 topics. I'm sure that would foster a great environment for growth.

Hillbilly SQ

· #15 · Mar 4, 2009

Alright guys Fish is in the same position pretty much all of us were in at one time. He's a greenhorn when it comes to sq and tuning despite what he's done in the past. Right now how needs a local meet and a few people who know what they're doing to tune his truck. The current headunit he's using won't allow much tweaking unfortunately. The single best thing he can do is look through the classifieds for a used 3-way active headunit...preferably one that will let him cross his passive fronts as low as he needs to. Crossover slope not only effects rolloff but also PHASE. If acoustical phase is messed up just a little you may as well kiss any chance of good sq goodbye.

Now to answer the op's questions. EXPERIMENT EXPERIMENT EXPERIMENT! We can tell you what might and might not work until you're blue in the face but you won't know for sure until you try it. Fish once you hear a few known systems for good staging and tonality you'll have a better understanding of what you're after and also be humbled in the process

See less See more

bassfromspace

· #16 · Mar 4, 2009

Good post Hillbilly!

Go out, experiment, and add to the conversation rather than take away from it.

1 - 16 of 16 Posts

This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.