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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hello,

I am a new forum member. I am working on a SQ build for my 2019 4Runner that I'd like to share for some advice. My primary concern with this build is the load it will put on my stock electrical system in this car, but also wanted to get feedback on speaker placement.

specs:

Pioneer DMH-WT8600NEX headunit
Focal PS165F3E frontstage
Focal PC165FE rearstage
10" Audiomobile GTS stealthbox in rear/right quarterpanel
Helix DSP Pro mk2
2 x Mmats Hifi 6150D's
1 x Northstar 27F battery

I will run the 3 ways active in front, active with the coaxials (is it active since there is a passive crossover in the coaxial for the tweets?) in the stock rear door placement, and active to the sub. The idea with this build is to give headroom for future speaker updates, and the coaxials can provide rear passengers a full range signal if I choose, and I can still bandpass and play with them for differential rearfill or just turn them off. I am ditching the tailgate speakers, and sound deadening the entire car except the roof with dynamat extreme+dynaliner or equivalent.

I've already sourced most of the equipment and accessories, and lined up a local fabricator and tuner to help pull it all together.

I will be powering the 3-way front stage with six channels from the 2 x 6150D's at 150w @ 4ohms, the coaxials with two channels at 150w @ 4ohms, and the sub with two channels bridged at 550w @2ohms. This leaves me with two channels unused for maybe a future sub.

As these speakers are way underrated for these amps, I feel the actual load on my electrical system will be equivalent or close to what it would be if I were pushing about 1000 watts total after the system is conservatively calibrated. I think my stock electrical system will be fine with this additional load, but wanted your thoughts? These Mmats are super efficient, and I will be using less than half its rated power, so I imagine their draw will be far less than they are actually capable of when really pushed.

My stock alternator on this vehicle is rated for 130A, and my Northstar 27F battery is a solid AGM:

Pulse cranking amps1750 A
CCA rating at -18°C (0°F)930 A
CA/MCA rating at 0°C (32°F)1080 A
Reserve capacity195 min
Capacity - 20 hour rate (1.75 vpc)92 Ah

Do you think I will run into trouble on my 2019 4Runner? These vehicles have very little electrical goodies and are as barebone as the modern car comes these days, but I do have an HID headlight conversion in the car, which may actually use less amps than stock halogens (after warmup). Will I require a second battery or H/O alternator? How are you other 5th gen 4runner owners doing?

Regarding speaker placement, I am going for as OEM a look as possible. In the front stage, I will place the midbass in the stock lower door location, tweets semi-flush mounted in A pillars on-axis, midrange in the stock dash corner locations for tweets.

Besides placing it in the stock dash location and bouncing it off the windshield, I am also considering fabricating something shaped similarly in the front dash corners for the midranges, but tilted higher to make it closer to on-axis but still slightly pointed up:

Hood Automotive lighting Grille Automotive design Motor vehicle


Stock:
Hood Car Automotive design Automotive lighting Motor vehicle


The coaxials will go into the rear doors, which is low in the doors. Not the best place for setting up a good rear-fill as I understand it, but I am going for as close to OEM as possible.

Does anybody have any experience playing with the 4runner's stock dash corners for a mid-range? Will the midrange driver sound acceptable in the stock location bouncing waves off the windshield in this car?


Thank you,

Robert
 

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you wont even be close to maxing out your power capabilities with that setup... if its class D you can almost disregard the speaker power consumption.. the subwoofer is what will drop your voltage...

with a 120 amp alternator.. I would say do not exceed 1000w rms on the sub..like maxed out.. you can use a 2000w amp if you want just know that once you start exceeding about 800-1200 watts your voltage will be dropping.. i have a toyota corolla with a 120 amp alternator so i know :)


Once you get it all done, use a current clamp meter over the positive wire and you will be very suprised and how little it is.. your ears will hurt before the voltage drops unless you are some hardcore basshead and want to push more than 800 watts or so on the sub
 

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No you shouldn’t worry a bit about it. I’m running an odyssey group 31 with my 140 amp alternator in my Tacoma with 2 bigger AB amps and have 0 problems
 

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EDITED DUE TO OP ALREADY OWNING ALL THE EQUIPMENT LISTED

I think you have done a ok job putting together your proposed gear, but just ok, sadly, the speakers have listed are going to be your weakest links!

I know from trying some Focal's, just a little under the ones you have, the tweeters were harsh and overly bright and could not be made to sound decent with the DSP! So I upgraded to the Focal Utopia 165W-XP 2-way set and they sounded awesome, but I still wanted to go 3-way and upgraded again...

Looking at your parts only, it's what about $6500? Plus with the custom work, install and cables, maybe another $3 or $4k? I think you should get much better speakers for the $10 or $11 thousand system!

Two things: I just upgraded to a 3-way front and got custom dash pods made for my corners (for my 3" mids) in my SUV and they sound awesome, they are pretty close to on-axis, but the tweeters were mounted slightly off-axis and they blend perfectly, with no beaming, another poster here, just recently had his tweeters mounted on-axis in his A-pillars and is in the process of having them changed to off-axis, for this same reason...

Here's a pic of my Dash Pods and Tweeters:

Car Motor vehicle Automotive design Vehicle Steering part
 

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FWIW, with my experience on my Camrys dash panel(and yours looks identical)... Be ready to play with some fiberglass inside the car...
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
Thanks all for alleviating my concerns about my battery and alternator. I had an old Memphis Belle 5 channel amp in my 1998 Audi A4 powering a 12W7 in a prowedge enclosure back in the day that made my headlights dim, but I was too dumb and broke to fix it properly. That stupid amp overheated and would go into protect mode from time to time. I don't miss it.

Ok, all kidding aside, I think you have done a ok job putting together your proposed gear, but just ok, sadly, the speakers have listed are going to be your weakest links and since the Focal PS165F3E are rated at only 80w (with the crossover), my thoughts are, that sending 150w to the Tweeters, Mids and your rear Coaxials (rated for 70w) is serious overkill, sure you can dial back the gain to keep from popping them, but why not get a better balance?
Thank you for your feedback! I knew going in the speakers would be my weak point. Without going into too much detail, I am committed to the DSP and these amps already. I bought my helix dsp pro mk2 bnib at a solid price as it was no longer warrantied, with no return. I also realize the overkill I am throwing at these things with the 6150D's. If Mmats had released a Hifi with lower ratings with100w @ 4ohm per channel, I'd be all over that. I love the specs on this line, though, and respect the American-made quality. We need to put our money in our local companies where we can. It also gives me room to grow down the line. I got a crackin' deal on non-warrantied flax evos, and figured I could eat the cost and build a new set later on. I also do prefer to have rear speakers for passengers and to play with differential rear-fill. I settled on buying the dsp and amps that my heart wants now, with plans to upgrade speakers later. Your suggestions do make a lot of sense, however. I'd have saved a couple grand going with your Audison F AP8.9.
 

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There is no reason he can't run 150w on his drivers if he is smart with the gain and eq. Heck he could have 300w on tap if he wants, the chance of those speakers actually seeing 150w is pretty darn small. OP didn't you say you have most of the equipment bought already? What do you have left to buy?
 

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I have a 2018 4runner.
You can Shays take your alternator to a reputable electrical shop and have them swap out your guts and have them put a 240 amp stator in the OEM case. And you could get the amp booster they sell for like $70
I did this and added a second battery, basically 2 group 31. But I am running a zero 4 and zero 3 for my 3 way front and a bridged as300.2 that powers to adire audio brahma 12's. All class AB amps sticks a ton in my system.
I'm digging what your putting in. I'm curious if you will run into the 40hz cabin gain issue I have in my 4runner?
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I just upgraded to a 3-way front and got custom dash pods made for my corners (for my 3" mids) in my SUV and they sound awesome, they are pretty close to on-axis, but the tweeters were mounted slightly off-axis and they blend perfectly, with no beaming, another poster here, just recently had his tweeters mounted on-axis in his A-pillars and is in the process of having them changed to off-axis, for this same reason...
Thank you. This is great info.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
But I am running a zero 4 and zero 3 for my 3 way front and a bridged as300.2 that powers to adire audio brahma 12's. All class AB amps sticks a ton in my system.
I'm digging what your putting in. I'm curious if you will run into the 40hz cabin gain issue I have in my 4runner?
I originally was going for a budget A/B setup with a class D woofer channel (Morel MPS 5.950 + 4.400) in an early spec, but was afraid of having to go down the rabbithole you went down for electrical updates. I did go ahead and purchase a big three cable kit from XS power, and will slap that on later myself for good measure.

I'd guess the issue you have at 40hz is due to the 4runner cabin design. I guess we will find out!
 

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ya i started out with all class d amps. After I replaced my class d 6 channel with a zapco 150.6 and then got the adire audio subs getting 1800 watts my turn signals were dimming. I ran 1/0 gauge from the batteries to the cargo area, hot rodded the alternator, voltage booster etc. They do sell "high output" alternators for our rigs but then you have to find a smaller belt. I just got a new alternator gave it to the guy and for a total of $475 i now have a 240 amp alternator that slapped right in with the OEM belt. I will post here a picture of my a pillars I did. I went overboard completely full sound deadening top to bottom, doors blah blah blah. I am working on my 4th amp rack for the cargo area too. Way to much time and money but it rocks.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I will post here a picture of my a pillars I did. I went overboard completely full sound deadening top to bottom, doors blah blah blah
I love the quality of your A pillars. Solid craftsmanship! Regarding sound deadening, I think I will also tear down my dash and get the firewall deadened extremely well, and do as much as I can in the engine bay. In my car, I have the magnuson supercharger, TRD intake, and a Borla exhaust that I terminated under the undercarriage just to the left of the rear right wheel, for maximum rock crawling clearance. The problem with this, is it's like driving a friggin' tank when I take my 4R out. The supercharger whine and exhaust drone is significant. I will relocate my exhaust to terminate behind the rear right wheel and out the side of the vehicle, or alternatively swap it back to stock to help with this as well.

How far did you get with your sound deadening? I intend to put down a layer of CLD and 1/4" CCF over the entire flooring with no gaps, quarterpanels and rear wheelwells, the B/C/D pillars in patches avoiding mounting protrusions, and I haven't decided on the roof. I'll put some CLD and dynamat hoodliner in the engine bay. I will remove speakers in my tailgate and give it the same treatment as doors and seal it all up.

Questions for you:

Did you give your tailgate the same love? Did you have to replace the hydraulic arm with a stronger one after all that weight was added? I am concerned my hood and tailgate might need new ones with the added weight.

Did you try with and without a roof treatment and have a frame of reference to compare the two?

Thank you,

Robert
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 · (Edited)
Some goodies sitting around.
Camera lens Cameras & optics Camera accessory Audio equipment Reflex camera



Waiting on the PS165F3E’s and Mmats amps are still being shipped. I have an extra set of PS165FE’s that I will return.

I must say, the Helix DSP Pro's laminated cardboard box oozes quality the moment you touch it. The box outweighs the DSP. Highest quality cardboard box I've ever touched, lol.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I think you have done a ok job putting together your proposed gear, but just ok, sadly, the speakers have listed are going to be your weakest links!
So, ended up making an order on Crutchfield for the speakers that I have been coveting for some time. Picked up the Audiofrog GB60, GB25, GB10, and GS62. The more I thought about the Flaxes and their somewhat temporary role in all of this, the more I felt I was just wasting time and money. I've got the fever, bad.
 

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So, ended up making an order on Crutchfield for the speakers that I have been coveting for some time. Picked up the Audiofrog GB60, GB25, GB10, and GS62. The more I thought about the Flaxes and their somewhat temporary role in all of this, the more I felt I was just wasting time and money. I've got the fever, bad.
I think that is an excellent choice! Even though I have never heard them, people here love the GB-series Frog's...!
 
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I did 4 boxes of 80 mil sound deadening on floors then covered in 3/8 csf. Doors are 80 mill on the skin then the metal behind for panel then I coveted most of the inside of the door panel on the inside as well. Tailgate I did the same and had to get heavy duty struts as it would sag.
Roof is 50 mill sound deadening with 3/8" csf over that.
If you look up sound deadening 2018 4runner on Google mine will show up. I coveted every square inch I could get including behind the cargo area panels. Made a huge difference.
Those were my first a pillars.
After my 4th and final amp rack to fit all the class Ab stuff I'm going to start on the next set of a pillars for my scan speak gold series tweeters and mids.
Currently running HAT X6 in my front doors. Then I'll take the morel cdm 880's and the German pods and install them in the rear and try a differential rear fill with my zapco hdsp.
What's your gas milaege like with the supercharger?
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 · (Edited)
MPG is slightly worse, but that may be due to the fact I use the additional power judiciously. The difference in theory should be minimal, as the air/fuel ratio increase with the supercharger and the ecu tune that comes with it would not be too aggressive as it needs to be CARB legal (I am in California). If I drove it at the same velocities as before the S/C, I dare say the results would not be too far apart as the engine needs to work much less hard at any given output level.

I currently get about 300-320 miles to the tank on 91 octane. IIRC, I used to get about 320-330 before.

I did in fact see your 4Runners.com post. One of many I read through actually. That’s the coverage I’m looking for. Do you remember what the struts you purchased were for the tailgate? I’m going to need a new one for the hood, too. I reckon I could ask on T4R.
 
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