DiyMobileAudio.com Car Stereo Forum banner

1 - 20 of 28 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
61 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello all, I'm going to be starting a new Hertz build soon on a 2019 silverado crew cab. It's been a while since I did my last build and I feel like I've forgotten everything I learned. My first build was in an 05 Saturn ion, I had a clarion cz702 hu going to an alpine mrx-f65, which powered a pair of image dynamics id65cs comps ran passive in the front, and a pair of image dynamics id69 coaxials in the rear above the trunk. For the sub stage I had a zapco monoblock (don't remember the model) powering a pre-made Rockford Fosgate ported 210 enclosure. I also stripped the car down and sound deadened the entire thing as well. I listen to a wide variety of music, but mostly heavy rock/metal (ie korn, tool, static x), and I was overall very happy with the system I had. I had intentions of upgrading the 2 10's to give the zapco something nicer to power, but never got around to it.

For this new build, Ive been looking at morel tempo ultra, image dynamics xs comps, and Hertz mille, and I'm leaning towards hertz. I haven't decided if I am going to upgrade the hu or go the route of oem integration via JL fix 86 or something equivalent. I'm also undecided how I'm going to do the subs; shallow behind the seat, under the seat firing down, up, forward, or rear, etc. I think for my application, 2 10s in a sealed enclosure would be appropriate. I really like the tight, quick response of the kick drum in your chest, more so than boomy bass. I know everyone is going to say I should just delete the rear speakers and invest that money into the front stage, and run the comps active off the amp but I'm still a noob, and I have no idea how to set up an active setup, so I will probably just stick with the plug and play nature of a passive setup. My budget is somewhere in the $3000 ballpark, less if possible, not sure if my selections below are overkill, subpar, or appropriate for me. I'm basically looking to take a step up from the system I was happy with without crossing the threshold into diminishing return, budget wise.

Here's what I've come up with so far:

Front: hertz mpk1650.3 comps (passive)
Rear: hertz mpx165.3 coax
Amp: hertz ML power 4
Sub: hertz mp250d4.3pro (×2)
Sub amp: hertz ML power 1
Deadener: Noico 80mil

I just feel like I've hit a wall and don't even know what to look for or where to start, I'm still in the early stages of planning and I'm feeling overwhelmed in the selection/planning process. If you guys could tell me if I'm on the right track or not, any suggestions or feedback is very much appreciated!
 

·
Listener of Music
Joined
·
4,001 Posts
I'd still get rid of the rears. No need ever in a truck.

Passive components can still sound good.

Resonix is the deadener to use.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Seank

·
Registered
Joined
·
61 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
From what I've found online, it's not recomended to change the head unit on the 2019 silverado so I will likely keep the factory hu. I've been watching videos explaining dsp's and locs, and I'm not sure now if I want to stick with the hertz ML power 4 amp and use an external dsp, or if I should go the route of the audio control d-4.800 amp which has an integrated dsp/loc, as well as rca line out to link a sub amp, which I'd probably use the lc1.1500. What route would you all recommend? Thanks!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,121 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
61 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I was looking at the jl audio fix 86 or the audio control dm608 to interface with the stock hu... would it be better to go this route with the hertz amp and external dsp over the audio control amp with dsp built in? The ampPRO doesn't really have dsp, just low mid high eq, from the looks of it. And the preamp out signals are only 5v, would that be sufficient or would a line driver be needed?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,121 Posts
The PacAmp takes the place of a LOC and gives you a flat signal (digital if you go for that add-on) so you get a clean signal to send to the dsp or amp/dsp. Whether you use the digital or analog output to feed the dsp might be another decision to factor in if you're considering using your phone or a dedicated DAP as an alternative source if you plan to do any HD audio.

Before discussing which dsp we need to discuss your goals.

Given your budget and component options you really owe it to yourself to consider going active. Not that passive can't sound good but going active with a 3-way front stage +Sub gives you so much more ability to overcome the problems inherent in car audio and if you get a Helix or MiniDSP that can automatically tune things for you then the learning curve isn't nearly as steep. Both the JL and AC dsp units are competent and you can get good results with time and patience but you'd be really limiting yourself by running passive. Take my install for example...

My original front stage was passive cause I'm old school and used to building my own crossovers but the result was that I had a nasty null that would not respond to eq or all pass adjustments. So I backed up and rewired my front stage to active and used the xover controls on my amps (not enough dsp channels) to use the same high passed front LR signal from the dsp and simply by changing the xover to slightly underlapped it totally changed the null region and was much easier (and smoother) to tune. I've since upgraded to a 3-way front stage and I'm still only using one stereo send from the dsp and going active with the amp xovers and getting really good results. Eventually I'll upgrade the dsp to get the extra channels I need but for now it's fine. All of that to say that you don't have to get a 12 channel dsp to do active if the amps you purchase have quality crossovers built in...

I haven't seen the Hertz dsp software but when I was dsp shopping and did the demo of JL / AC / Audison / Mosconi / MiniDSP / Helix comparison it quickly put things in a different perspective - but then I'm used to using DSP's in theaters and pro sound reinforcement so ymmv.

SSL - and if your set on JL vs AC then I'd look at the VXi vs AC amp/dsp combo units and personally I like the AC amps better (coming from someone who's currently running JL Slash Series amps) as the newer Class D stuff from JL really doesn't live up to my expectations. I used a stand alone dsp cause I already owned a shelf full of amps but if I was buying new it would be a combo.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
61 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
The PacAmp takes the place of a LOC and gives you a flat signal (digital if you go for that add-on) so you get a clean signal to send to the dsp or amp/dsp. Whether you use the digital or analog output to feed the dsp might be another decision to factor in if you're considering using your phone or a dedicated DAP as an alternative source if you plan to do any HD audio.

Before discussing which dsp we need to discuss your goals.

Given your budget and component options you really owe it to yourself to consider going active. Not that passive can't sound good but going active with a 3-way front stage +Sub gives you so much more ability to overcome the problems inherent in car audio and if you get a Helix or MiniDSP that can automatically tune things for you then the learning curve isn't nearly as steep. Both the JL and AC dsp units are competent and you can get good results with time and patience but you'd be really limiting yourself by running passive. Take my install for example...

My original front stage was passive cause I'm old school and used to building my own crossovers but the result was that I had a nasty null that would not respond to eq or all pass adjustments. So I backed up and rewired my front stage to active and used the xover controls on my amps (not enough dsp channels) to use the same high passed front LR signal from the dsp and simply by changing the xover to slightly underlapped it totally changed the null region and was much easier (and smoother) to tune. I've since upgraded to a 3-way front stage and I'm still only using one stereo send from the dsp and going active with the amp xovers and getting really good results. Eventually I'll upgrade the dsp to get the extra channels I need but for now it's fine. All of that to say that you don't have to get a 12 channel dsp to do active if the amps you purchase have quality crossovers built in...

I haven't seen the Hertz dsp software but when I was dsp shopping and did the demo of JL / AC / Audison / Mosconi / MiniDSP / Helix comparison it quickly put things in a different perspective - but then I'm used to using DSP's in theaters and pro sound reinforcement so ymmv.

SSL - and if your set on JL vs AC then I'd look at the VXi vs AC amp/dsp combo units and personally I like the AC amps better (coming from someone who's currently running JL Slash Series amps) as the newer Class D stuff from JL really doesn't live up to my expectations. I used a stand alone dsp cause I already owned a shelf full of amps but if I was buying new it would be a combo.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
-Would the pacamp be necessary, since the ac amps have an onboard loc? From what I've read so far, you military splice into the harness and run that to the amp inputs.

-Yes, I would likely be using my phone for most of my music, although I may consider getting a dedicated dap to store my library.

- So far as goals, this is going to be my only vehicle, my daily driver, I'm not looking to compete or anything, it's just for fun for me. So my goals are to surpass my last build in quality. I was happy with my first build but it can always be better.

-i was initially considering the hertz mille 3 ways (mpk 163.3) and switched to the 2 way (1650.3) because the sensitivity was higher and I want that little bit of extra volume up front. The dash has 2 3/4" speakers left and right, and the 3 ways have those 3" drivers so that would be an easy enough fitment. I also steered away from the 3 ways because the "oh **** handle" is low low on the a-pillar and fitting both the tweeter and 3" on the pillar would be quite difficult, but if I put them in the dash that would be a viable option. Would the 3 ways be a better option then? Here's the specs on the 2
Screenshot_20210503-063137_Samsung Internet.jpg
Screenshot_20210503-063047_Samsung Internet.jpg

- what did you find out when you did the dsp comparison, you said it put things in a different perspective

-whats SSL?

-So in your opinion, the dsp/amp combos would be the way to go since I'm buying new? I'll look into the jl vxi amps, what was lacking with jl?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,121 Posts
-Would the pacamp be necessary, since the ac amps have an onboard loc? From what I've read so far, you military splice into the harness and run that to the amp inputs.

-Yes, I would likely be using my phone for most of my music, although I may consider getting a dedicated dap to store my library.

- So far as goals, this is going to be my only vehicle, my daily driver, I'm not looking to compete or anything, it's just for fun for me. So my goals are to surpass my last build in quality. I was happy with my first build but it can always be better.

-i was initially considering the hertz mille 3 ways (mpk 163.3) and switched to the 2 way (1650.3) because the sensitivity was higher and I want that little bit of extra volume up front. The dash has 2 3/4" speakers left and right, and the 3 ways have those 3" drivers so that would be an easy enough fitment. I also steered away from the 3 ways because the "oh **** handle" is low low on the a-pillar and fitting both the tweeter and 3" on the pillar would be quite difficult, but if I put them in the dash that would be a viable option. Would the 3 ways be a better option then? Here's the specs on the 2 View attachment 300006 View attachment 300007
- what did you find out when you did the dsp comparison, you said it put things in a different perspective

-whats SSL?

-So in your opinion, the dsp/amp combos would be the way to go since I'm buying new? I'll look into the jl vxi amps, what was lacking with jl?
The Pac Amp uses a T Harness to avoid splicing anything and also to get the flat signal from the HU instead of the factory tuned signal after the amplifier. (Depending on your factory audio as some don't have outboard amps.) Takes all the guesswork and splicing out of the picture but does cost more than using high level inputs on the amplifiers.

Using high level inputs to the amplifier does have one big advantage in that it leaves the digital input open for a dedicated DAP or phone when you decide to try HD streaming options (much better sound quality.)

2 Way vs 3 Way is a choice only you can make. Simpler to run 2 way and not deal with the extra complications of another drive unit. 3 way gives you the ability to better tune and 'usually' run more power by keeping the xovers above 2x Fs and prevent problems with power handling. But if you run 3 way then you will really need to go active so you can time align the mids with the other 2 drivers. One of the biggest benefits of running active is time alignment.

SSL = Sorry So Long

Download the demo software for JL and AC and then check out Helix and you'll see what I mean. MUCH better GUI and much more capability in the Helix. For me it was all about SQ since I've done the whole basshead pseudo SPL installs before and I wanted this one to be total SQ. The Helix was the only one that would support the SQ attributes I was looking for and also had all the boxes checked on the controllability.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
61 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
The Pac Amp uses a T Harness to avoid splicing anything and also to get the flat signal from the HU instead of the factory tuned signal after the amplifier. (Depending on your factory audio as some don't have outboard amps.) Takes all the guesswork and splicing out of the picture but does cost more than using high level inputs on the amplifiers.

Using high level inputs to the amplifier does have one big advantage in that it leaves the digital input open for a dedicated DAP or phone when you decide to try HD streaming options (much better sound quality.)

2 Way vs 3 Way is a choice only you can make. Simpler to run 2 way and not deal with the extra complications of another drive unit. 3 way gives you the ability to better tune and 'usually' run more power by keeping the xovers above 2x Fs and prevent problems with power handling. But if you run 3 way then you will really need to go active so you can time align the mids with the other 2 drivers. One of the biggest benefits of running active is time alignment.

SSL = Sorry So Long

Download the demo software for JL and AC and then check out Helix and you'll see what I mean. MUCH better GUI and much more capability in the Helix. For me it was all about SQ since I've done the whole basshead pseudo SPL installs before and I wanted this one to be total SQ. The Helix was the only one that would support the SQ attributes I was looking for and also had all the boxes checked on the controllability.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
Thank you!!! So the big drawback to using high level inputs (9 cable) is that you have to military splice into the harness but you have a digital input for dap, whereas using the pacamp eliminates the need to splice but you lose the ability to use HD streaming/dap
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
449 Posts
It all depends what equipment you end up with. I have a 17 sierra and am using the pac for the head unit over rca’s to a helix v8, also running an optical just in case and then going iphone>camera kit>topping d10>Optical>helix as a better quality source.

None of that has to be done but I would recommend the pac and a dsp/amp combo.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
61 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
It all depends what equipment you end up with. I have a 17 sierra and am using the pac for the head unit over rca’s to a helix v8, also running an optical just in case and then going iphone>camera kit>topping d10>Optical>helix as a better quality source.

None of that has to be done but I would recommend the pac and a dsp/amp combo.
Sweet, and I'm assuming that this is the pacamp we are referring to? Correct me if I'm wrong, there was a whole list of products on that link above
Screenshot_20210503-165053_Samsung Internet.jpg

I may go active 3way and run the Audio Control D-6.1200, delete the rear coaxials, and use the rca out on that amp to run the sub amp
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
449 Posts
That’s the pac i have, I would double check to make sure it works with your truck.

Like daloudin said i would d/l the software from a couple manufacturers and see what you are comfortable with before making a decision.

If i was going to do it over I would probably go with a Helix P6 and skip rear fill and focus more on my front stage but at the system planning stage i was worried about how that might sound with passengers in the back but screw em!!

If you decide to go 2 way up front there a couple 5ch options that would take care of your subs without a separate amp. It’s worth looking into...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
61 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
That’s the pac i have, I would double check to make sure it works with your truck.

Like daloudin said i would d/l the software from a couple manufacturers and see what you are comfortable with before making a decision.

If i was going to do it over I would probably go with a Helix P6 and skip rear fill and focus more on my front stage but at the system planning stage i was worried about how that might sound with passengers in the back but screw em!!

If you decide to go 2 way up front there a couple 5ch options that would take care of your subs without a separate amp. It’s worth looking into...
Nice! Im leaning towards the AC combo instead of a standalone dsp, and my only concern with 3ways is the fitment of the 3" drivers in the 2 3/4 mounts but the more I think about it, I'll probably go the route of a 6chan ac amp with the 3ways
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
61 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 · (Edited)
That’s the pac i have, I would double check to make sure it works with your truck.

Like daloudin said i would d/l the software from a couple manufacturers and see what you are comfortable with before making a decision.

If i was going to do it over I would probably go with a Helix P6 and skip rear fill and focus more on my front stage but at the system planning stage i was worried about how that might sound with passengers in the back but screw em!!

If you decide to go 2 way up front there a couple 5ch options that would take care of your subs without a separate amp. It’s worth looking into...
In your opinion is the pacamp worth it? Seems like the main advantage is plug and play instead of the headache of splicing, and you can run rca line level inputs instead of speaker level inputs to the amp, but I'm not totally sold on that advantage being worth $450, plus the addition of quality rca cables. Splicing and running line level would be harder but much less expensive without the pacamp and rca's, am I retarded? Haha
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
61 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
system paint.jpg

I just finished the initial layout, its rough but gives a general idea. hertz mlk163.3 up front, ran active through the d6.1200 and 2 hertz mp250 d4.3 pro powered through the lc-1500. These amps have some pretty cool features including the gto (great turn on) eliminating the need for a remote turn on, and the remote in/ out serves as a remote out to switch the lc on. it also has rca outs to run to the sub amp. So far as interfacing, I think i will contact LLJ customs here in Glendale- they make some pretty cool options for plug and play T-harnesses like pac does.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
449 Posts
I wouldn’t be to concerned about making the 3” speakers fit as long as you can widen the open a little.

I would look into the audiocontrol dsp/amps a little more, some people like 5 star seem to love them and others not so much. I don’t have any experience with them personally.

The pac was totally worth it to me but i also didn’t pay $450 for it, so only you can decide that. LLJ is another good option but they are really hard to get a hold of or get any response from. Maybe you’ll have better luck being local.

Where are you planning on putting the tweeters? I would still plan on running a remote wire as a back up. Everything else looks good.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
449 Posts
Have you found a box for your subs or plan on building one? There not exactly shallow so you might want to double check fitment before pulling the trigger.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
61 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I wouldn’t be to concerned about making the 3” speakers fit as long as you can widen the open a little.

I would look into the audiocontrol dsp/amps a little more, some people like 5 star seem to love them and others not so much. I don’t have any experience with them personally.

The pac was totally worth it to me but i also didn’t pay $450 for it, so only you can decide that. LLJ is another good option but they are really hard to get a hold of or get any response from. Maybe you’ll have better luck being local.

Where are you planning on putting the tweeters? I would still plan on running a remote wire as a back up. Everything else looks good.
-I emailed LLJ last night, if I don't hear back I can always go to their shop and talk to them in person.

-good idea about running a backup remote wire!

-ill probably put them in the doors here, if not in the A-pillars if that would be better. Here's a picture of where I was thinking- red is tweeter location and green is the 3" dash speakers. I'm open to suggestions though!
2020_Chevrolet_Silverado_1500_Interior_1.jpg
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
449 Posts
Have you looked at running wire into the doors yet? It’s not an easy thing to do, especially the 12g you have spec’d so i vote pillars but it’s up to you.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
61 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Have you found a box for your subs or plan on building one? There not exactly shallow so you might want to double check fitment before pulling the trigger.
I'll be building a box, and they're going under the backseat firing into the floor since the backrest doesn't fold out. Pretty sure they will fit under the seat oriented down but I will of course verify before buying 👍🏻
 
1 - 20 of 28 Posts
Top