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Discussion Starter #1
OK I'm modeling up a sub box for a regular cab S-10 (1992), and I've got a teeny-tiny wedge of space behind the seat to work with.

I modeled in WinISD Pro two solutions, and damn it all, they look nearly identical in frequency response, SPL capability, etc.

The Tang Band 6.5" subwoofer W6-1139SI
Three of them, maybe 4, firing downward in a wedge box with a ~.707 Qtc

OR

The Tang Band WT-1427B 10" pancake sub
Two of them, firing backwards, with a total Qtc of around ~.700


On most plots, they are with a dB of each other, and their frequency response is within a few Hz.

They even cost about the exact same!

The question is, which would you do? Or, do you have another option I've missed?
 

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6.5s because it would be a lot of fun! I like multiple small subs...
 

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How far back does the seat need to go? I'm only 5'9" but I had a trio of OG 10W6s behind the seat in my 87 S10 standard cab in an optimum sized enclosure. But FWIW, a 13TW5 only needs .8cf and the SI BM (when it's released) will only need .5cf. The JL is 2.54" deep and needs ZERO pole vent space. Manville told me that Lucio designed it that way on purpose. Pretty smart IMO.
 

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How far back does the seat need to go? I'm only 5'9" but I had a trio of OG 10W6s behind the seat in my 87 S10 standard cab in an optimum sized enclosure. But FWIW, a 13TW5 only needs .8cf and the SI BM (when it's released) will only need .5cf. The JL is 2.54" deep and needs ZERO pole vent space. Manville told me that Lucio designed it that way on purpose. Pretty smart IMO.
Thats VERY smart indeed, you can purposely make the enclosure narrow and add some foam behind the driver until its screws in tight to decrease enclosure resonance.
 

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My vote is to wait for the new BM.
 

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What about the 6x9" TB's downfiring. Can you get more cone area/displacement that way?
 

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Discussion Starter #7
The TB 6x9's don't have the excursion!

Can't wait on the BM, but it was my first choice. I'm getting SI Mags, so you know I'm all over the BM if it gets done. But we're building this weekend and next.

Can't do the JL Sub...not after double the price for less performance (subjectively.)

QS, he's tall and big. His seat has to be at the last click, which measures precisely 7" of total space from back metal to the solid part of the seat, the hinge area which won't budget unlike the soft fabric of the seat back. I figured by making the subs fire backwards or down, I don't have to worry about the inevitable problem of localization when a sub is vibrating your backside directly with the damn cone!

So, you guys wanna see the 6.5" babies go in? Think it will sound good?
 

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Discussion Starter #8




There it is! Or at least one option I have. That's 4 6.5" subs wedged in a sealed box with a gross volume internally of 1.07 cubic feet. That would actually be too big for the subs if I'm shooting for .707Qtc, but I imagine bracing, and sub displacement will eat up a bit of space.

The part you see to the left (facing the wedge side) and at the bottom is the roadside jack and tools that stuff in the truck. I'll simply be creating a slide-out cover out of 1/2" wood to hide all that junk. Above it is the new amp, a Massive 950.5 5 ch amp.

This one took a while because of all the tedious measurements, but I think 4 of those 6.5" subs will be a riot! Especially with some EQ work from the PRS880 that this project will have.

Thoughts?
 

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Looks really nice. I use to have 4 of the 6.5" Tang Bands in mustang in a fiberglass enclosure in the rear deck. I was really impressed with them while they were in there.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I don't understand the logic, QS.

Here's an SPL plot of the two sub choices, RED is Tangband x4, and Yellow is JL 13TW5-3

Both are in a 1 cu foot box, the biggest I could fit in the space.



They are dead-nuts on with each other, bro. Except for the fact that the TB plays upper frequencies much louder and will need to be EQ'd or crossed.

The TB's have an effective piston area of .0140m ^2, which x 4 is .056 square meters.

The JL has an effective piston area of .063 square meters, so it indeed will play more efficiently of course.


KMarks24, could you expand on how they sounded in the Mustang for me? Did they ever disrupt or distort playing low? Did you have to EQ or cross them in a special way?
 

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Multiple small drivers can sound incredible if done right, and will generally give you a much tighter sounding system. But installation is everything. I once heard an owner/installer system ages ago, which used two large columns of 4" speakers, located in the rear corners of what was something like an old Ford Econoline van. They were used as midbasses that went quite low and mated with a single 12" ported sub. I listened to the 1812 Overture on them and was blown away. The sound was so loud and tight it was unbelievable, and I could actually feel the air movement during the cannon shots. It was similar in design to the many line transmission designs used in various high end home speakers, and they are highly regarded.

As for localization, I wouldn't worry about that as long as you have any sort of midrange/midbass up front that goes down to about 80 Hz or so. I have an 8" Morel, in a well damped .5-.75 cubic ft box, running off a SS Rubicon 502, which sits snugly behind the passenger seat of an early MR2. I have few issues with localization, even though I am only using Infinity Kappa 4.5” speakers in the dash (they reach down to just about 80hz exactly).
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Need more input from the experts on this one. I've put in about 10 hours so far in 3D modeling and referencing, and before I go forward with any more experimentation with these small subs, it would be great to get more feedback.
 

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To anwser this question: KMarks24, could you expand on how they sounded in the Mustang for me? Did they ever disrupt or distort playing low? Did you have to EQ or cross them in a special way?

At the time i had them i wasn't really into rap like i am now and for rock songs i loved them. Certain tracks like disturbs down with the sickness, a few limp bizkit songs like urban assault vehicle would distort out. But all in all i'd say i could get them to play down to low 30's with low distortion at moderate volume. I had a clif designs EQ and have no clue how it was all set frequency wise but the 6.5's did have some rough peaks in my deck that got smoothed out with the eq and rap songs would cause the excursion to go beyond mechanical limits. <<<< That i'm sure was my fault and not the subs themselves though as this was one of my first ever builds as a learner at the shop i was being taught at.
 

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It's not that they won't sound good. IME 8" and smaller subs fall apart at higher levels especially high efficiency models. As I'm finding out with mine, the TW5 wants some decent power. With some solid power they're quite good.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
I would sell your truck and get an extended cab :D
You're not paying attention, this is NOT my truck, it is a friend of the family's. I'm doing a build for him. I'm fairly certain you were just kidding, but traditionally as an installer, it is very rude to tell the customer to just buy another vehicle because you are unable to solve the problems with his current vehicle.

Regardless you are at 50 posts now so I suppose you succeeded in getting what you want.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Get two of these:

DDAudio Digital Designs Speakers Made in the USA

Put them in 1.0-1.5 cubic feet ported. Tuned to 40Hz. Hold on... you won't believe that they're only 6.5s. Those little MFers get LOUD and LOW. I'd expect these to compete with a 13TW5 just fine.

I need a price on those two if you have time. Just PM me if it isn't supposed to be public. BTW I doubt I'll be able to get 1.0 cubes with a port included, but I'll do my best. Can I run two to three (or even 4) sealed and let the cabin gain get me back to where I need to be?
 

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I think both your choices are great in driver selection and design. I think it all depends on your approach, and what your customer tends towards. The dual 10 is definitely a more traditional setup, fewer drivers to work with means fewer connections, easier troubleshooting etc. The multiple small driver setup on the other hand has the rarity aspect to it, a little bit of uniqueness. Besides there is nothing better than proving the 6.5 CAN. If you have an open minded guy on your hands I'd say go for the later, it's far more interesting and fun to play with. That's coming from a guy who probably has more surface area on his tweeter :)
 
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