[tbonez3858]

My friend and I are having a debate (yes we debate car audio)...The discussion is about amp power and leveling....If you have 6 1/2 midbass (175 watt amp) and tweets (100 watt amp) installed in virtually the same location do you have to level down to your lowest wattage? Meaning will you have to level back your 175 watt 6/12 midbass to come close to your 100 watt tweets for it to sound balanced? If so whats the use of purchasing a larger watt amp for your mids?

 

[Xander]

There is no definitive answer to that question.

You need much more power for midbass speakers than tweeters. That is because to produce the same SPL at a lower frequency requires much more power. Twice as much power for every octave you go down.

Mathematically, for the tweeter and mid to play the same frequency at the same level, they will need the same power, but only if they have the exact same efficiency, power compression, and are the same distance from the listener. There are some other variables I have not mentioned...I think I may be missing an important one. Oh yeah, their impedance curves must match up at the frequency also. Which is very very unlikely. A properly designed passive crossover will handle all of these variables. That is why you can use the same power source for multiple drivers with a passive crossover.

See? Way to many variables. In my opinion, it's a stupid thing to argue. No offense.

 

[traceywatts]

you will more likely turn the gains down on the tweeters.

 

[sqshoestring]

I level to balance the sound/response or it will sound ugly...but sure one amp or the other might not run as hard. That can depend on the efficiency and location of the driver as well as the power you run it with, of course lower frequency does take more power but the other factors do affect it. Even the amp can, I've had amps that will run a tweeter really hard and not make much bass before clipping, and amps that don't care what frequency it is once X gain is applied they puke. Not entirely sure why the amps work that way, but they sure do. In the latter case you need a much larger tweeter amp to work well. Maybe someone else here can shed some light on it. The amp that pukes at any frequency may have some limitation in the input section, as opposed to power limitations that can cause bass clipping.

Far as getting a larger amp, it may give more headroom or dynamics but I'll leave that to opinion. Personally I find some amps are more dynamic (not clipped) that others, so I don't really find any advantage to significantly oversized amps. Then I suppose with one amp you might need a larger one and another not. Another issue is just how much power is your system built for, if you use more efficient drivers you might not want huge/dynamic amps. Sure distortion can be harmful, but large dynamics can also overdrive a lower power speaker sooner. But if you like huge amps and set your gains right it can work great, all depends on what you want/like and what that install needs.

 

[capnxtreme]

You're debating about whether, if you're sending your tweeters 100w, you are required to send your mids no more than 100w?

Debate about car audio all you want, but for Christ's sake, find something less retarded to debate.

Or PM tspence73 for some theoretical SPL discussion.

 

[sqshoestring]

Do midbass make VBA?

 

[capnxtreme]

Only if your tweeters have 500w on them, to unlock the midbass' potential.

 

[gijoe]

You're debating about whether, if you're sending your tweeters 100w, you are required to send your mids no more than 100w?

Debate about car audio all you want, but for Christ's sake, find something less retarded to debate.

Or PM tspence73 for some theoretical SPL discussion.

Don't be such an ass, this is a fair question.

Like others said above, it depends on many variables. Efficiency of the speaker being one. The goal is to get the sound you like, and you will probably never find an instance where sending mids and tweets the exact same power will result in a perfect balance.

So basically, no you don't have to turn your mids down to 100 watts. If that were the case, you'd have to turn your subs down to 100 watts too.

 

[TXwrxWagon]

low frequency music requires more power than high frequencies.. call it VBA... call it "rectal message"... call it a "bass enema" whatever "tickles" your fancy... LOL

the fundamantal frequencies of road/vehicle noise are against you.....

While archaic in approach, the old school method was 3-2-1 (Sub, Midbass, Mid-Tweeter) as the ratio....

Oh the glory days...

Rob

 

[tbonez3858]

You're debating about whether, if you're sending your tweeters 100w, you are required to send your mids no more than 100w?

Debate about car audio all you want, but for Christ's sake, find something less retarded to debate.

Or PM tspence73 for some theoretical SPL discussion.

capnxtreme...Thanks for your informative answer. It really helped me understand the theory behind applying the appropriate power and level adjustments to my mids and highs..On a side note what exactly do you think we should discuss on here besides applied theory? Would it have been better if I posted "Im a noob help me pick out a sub that goes boom"? Are the questions I ask about system tuning and RTA set up out of line as well? Some of us actually care about making the systems we have spent thousands and want to make them better...Some of us ask questions and appreciate the informative answers we get on here....So for all its worth soak your eyes in bleach and then stick your head in a rusty wood chipper....

 

[Lanson]

Tweeters don't need much power at all. A 25W amp would probably overpower most tweeters provided they are crossed over ~2.5KHz or so.

Woofers of course are much more power-hungry.

Just remember...the gain dial is linear in terms of audible increase or decrease, but the power is squared as you dial up or down.

 

[el_chupo_]

capnxtreme...Thanks for your informative answer. It really helped me understand the theory behind applying the appropriate power and level adjustments to my mids and highs..On a side note what exactly do you think we should discuss on here besides applied theory? Would it have been better if I posted "Im a noob help me pick out a sub that goes boom"? Are the questions I ask about system tuning and RTA set up out of line as well? Some of us actually care about making the systems we have spent thousands and want to make them better...Some of us ask questions and appreciate the informative answers we get on here....So for all its worth soak your eyes in bleach and then stick your head in a rusty wood chipper....

I may be wrong, but I think Capn was trying to gently point out that if you know even the most basics about how speakers work you would understand how the question originally asked was a bit below the average level of intelligence assumed on this particular message board.

As has been stated several times, there are too many variables that could affect the situation, but in general, something as simple as driver efficiency should give you any answer you need, and you could then venture out to some other reasons for more power to certain drivers.

 

[capnxtreme]

Thanks el chupo. Can't say I was especially gentle about it. Next time I'll keep my mouth shut out of respect for the board. It sucks that OP feels more compelled to flame me, than thank the others who actually spent the time to thoroughly answer such a silly question.

 

[Jtejedor]

I run 250 watts to my tweeters and still crave more power!!!

 

[Lanson]

please god tell me that you are kidding.

 

[t3sn4f2]

please god tell me that you are kidding.

Probably not........

 

[tbonez3858]

Thanks el chupo. Can't say I was especially gentle about it. Next time I'll keep my mouth shut out of respect for the board. It sucks that OP feels more compelled to flame me, than thank the others who actually spent the time to thoroughly answer such a silly question.

NO you werent gentle about it and NO I still dont think it was a rediculous or silly question...Where did you get your knowledge? Im betting you didnt know everything the day you hooked up your first amp..Its guys like you that ruin pretty much everything that requires learning...You act as if you dont have your head in an RTA all day that you are some how beneath those that do...I have over a 100 employees that report to me for a large enterprise network...I've been configuring routers, firewalls and switches for 15 year I hear some pretty stupid questions but I do my best NOT to belittle anyone for the amount they know as long and they are trying to learn....The next time you dont know something and go to ask someone for assistance I TRULY hope they laugh in your face. The idea that there is a general knowledge level on this board is a joke. I see noobs daily asking about $200 systems then I see detailed analysis of RTA lines...I've been toying with car audio for 18 years. Theres a lot I know and a lot I dont know. Im trying to beef up my understanding and skills on the tuning side of the house. I've installed a bunch of nice gear and Im building an RTA...My goal is a serious SQ system. I have read a lot and met a bunch of guys on this board that have really helped me out...YOU just happen to be excluded from that list..You are the ONLY guy on this board that has chosen to FLAME me instead of imparting a little wisdom..What does that say about you?

 

[capnxtreme]

So in 18 years of experience, neither you nor your friend is familiar with driver sensitivity ratings?

Sorry I struck a nerve. I didn't mean to personally insult you; I just thought it was a silly question, and possibly a joke.

 

[tbonez3858]

So in 18 years of experience, neither you nor your friend is familiar with driver sensitivity ratings?

Sorry I struck a nerve. I didn't mean to personally insult you; I just thought it was a silly question, and possibly a joke.

Its funny that you pointed out speaker sensitivity because this is exactly where the debate came from..We were looking at the specification sheet for my comps and both the mids and tweets are 89db at 1 watt. Maybe my "common sense" meter is broken but that would tell me that if I applied 100 watts to both they should produce identical DBs since the ratings are the same. With that same thought pattern if I applied 175 watts to my mids I would be playing 75% louder out of my mids and have to level them down to match the tweets. I agree that there are many variables. I really forgot to include the amount of power required to drive the larger mids..That still leaves the question that if 1 watt delivers 89db then additional wattage per woofer size should not enter the mix.. I am sure there is something I am missing but I dont feel the question is out of line. Its a question that doesnt fall into "how to I hook up a sub" or "is the smiley face the best EQ setting". In the end most of us dont have access to a mentor that has won 50 IASCA events...We read, we purchase, we install, we tweak and we ask questions that may seem "stupid" because we are in uncharted territory...

 

[tspence73]

Its funny that you pointed out speaker sensitivity because this is exactly where the debate came from..We were looking at the specification sheet for my comps and both the mids and tweets are 89db at 1 watt. Maybe my "common sense" meter is broken but that would tell me that if I applied 100 watts to both they should produce identical DBs since the ratings are the same.

Watch out. You're starting to use logic and asking questions to find answers. Once you do that, capt extreme's brain melts and he starts calling you names.

With that same thought pattern if I applied 175 watts to my mids I would be playing 75% louder out of my mids and have to level them down to match the tweets.

Seems logical to me as well.

I agree that there are many variables. I really forgot to include the amount of power required to drive the larger mids..That still leaves the question that if 1 watt delivers 89db then additional wattage per woofer size should not enter the mix.. I am sure there is something I am missing but I dont feel the question is out of line. Its a question that doesnt fall into "how to I hook up a sub" or "is the smiley face the best EQ setting". In the end most of us dont have access to a mentor that has won 50 IASCA events...We read, we purchase, we install, we tweak and we ask questions that may seem "stupid" because we are in uncharted territory...

Asking questions based on information seems to get me flamed on here. I totally understand your questions and I would think that if the sensitivity matches, the wattage applied should match.