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Type of subwoofer for decent system for good quality, not SPL

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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi, i'm new here, i have a 2004 VW Passat Sedan (same as Audi A4) and i need advice for the followings, i need rear speakers and Sub. I have the Amps already, all powered up. I am not a SPL fan. i listen to music to normal levels, maybe once in a while crank it up a little bit, so i don't want crazy power and SPL subs.

I have a JBL GTO 609C in the front, so i will need the followings, of course not crazy on budget, just trying to make a living tho' :D

1-some rear doors speakers to go low on FQ? i don't know if i will use tweeters too, but something that can make the transition from the front mids to the subwoofers, i think will be a gap in FQ and overall music feeling, i was thinking to switcht to non-car-audio brands like Dayton Audio, Visaton, Monacor and so on.

More stressing out for me is this Subwoofer thing i have to choose
2-what's your opinion about slim Subs? are they worth it? I wan't to build a custom trunk rack for 1 or 2 slim subs so the enclosure will be on hinges with strong anchor point so that can be placed to fire to the cabin and when i need to get somethinng long in the car (like a snowboard) to let them horizontally so i will have room from the trunk to the cabin. JBL shallow subs i've seen they are pretty small in height and are very well appreciated.

3-compared to this shallow subwoofers setup a regular sub (25/30cm in the rear right of the trunk in custom fiberglass enclosure? between the stop-light and wheel arch. This setup is making me thiking that will be just a vibration allover the car and not a sound that i can hear even at low volume and musicality that i can enjoy, also being far in the back.

Thanks guys.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
It's a question of packaging really.

The sub box needs volume to extend low, unless you go Infinite baffle.

Slim subs allow you to fit subs where you can't otherwise, but really you still need the volume.
Yes, i can make the box volume for a shallow sub, or even a bit larger volume. Unfortunatelly our suppliers in my city can't demo a shallow sub so i can't compare.
I don't know how it will behave because of the smaller Xmax and also cone area is smaller than a regular sub.
Also the cone material i see there are lots of plastic, not paper cones, which makes me wonder. I've also seen some youtube reviews of Pioneer and others that shallow subs tend to rattle that cone plastic material
I was thinking to get 2 x 25cm shallow JBL subs. (fits the max budget) otherwise just a regular sub for the budget.

Another thing i am concerned about the fullness of the bass, the gravity and drama that a proper sub would do. Can shallow subs get close to the sound feeling? Let's say i got my box right.

I need the practicability of the rear seats to fold over so i can carry my snowboards, a regular speaker sub is kind of tricky to get a pleasent sound (not just bumping and shaking)
 

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Sounds like with the location your trying to use a shallow sub would fit better. In a 10” the two standouts are JL TW3 and Sundown Audio SD4 in my opinion. They both have impressive output and come in different voice coil configurations.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Sounds like with the location your trying to use a shallow sub would fit better. In a 10” the two standouts are JL TW3 and Sundown Audio SD4 in my opinion. They both have impressive output and come in different voice coil configurations.
Indeed, locationwise would be better. If there is a night and day difference, could try to place a regular one in the trunk with a lot of ingenuity about the box and still hold my trunk-cabin space available. I just would like to know if it's really that much of a difference and if it would worth the hassle
 

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It's a question of packaging really.

The sub box needs volume to extend low, unless you go Infinite baffle.

Slim subs allow you to fit subs where you can't otherwise, but really you still need the volume.
Not at all the case, if you compromise efficiency it’s very possible to get low bass from a compact box

There are three property’s of a sub

Compact enclosure
Low bass
Efficiency

pick two as all three are impossible

To the OP… I’ve never found a ten that can play with efficiency down low with the exception of a single hertz Mille in a mates car

and I’ve not heard a shallow ten that can dig deep with enough output to match even a 6/4/1 front stage without multiples fitted considering the rising response we want to 20hz (I used a sb acoustics shallow 10 which was nice for sq levels, but you won’t be waking anyone up outside there house

twelve is the minimum but I’ve not had enough experience with shallow twelves, the si 12 is meant to be very good and the jl tw3 but I don’t like the high qts of shallow woofers generally (the sb acoustics was the exception to this rule, but that’s likely one of the best sq shallow subs made)

For me I will always pick a fullsize woofer if I can, no compromises on geometry or motor is always going to be better than trying to pack motor and excursion together in a shallow box

personally I love IB, that’s well documented and shows in my car with IB midbass and 15” subs 😎

Tire Automotive tire Wheel Motor vehicle Automotive design
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Not at all the case, if you compromise efficiency it’s very possible to get low bass from a compact box

There are three property’s of a sub

Compact enclosure
Low bass
Efficiency

pick two as all three are impossible

To the OP… I’ve never found a ten that can play with efficiency down low with the exception of a single hertz Mille in a mates car

and I’ve not heard a shallow ten that can dig deep with enough output to match even a 6/4/1 front stage without multiples fitted considering the rising response we want to 20hz (I used a sb acoustics shallow 10 which was nice for sq levels, but you won’t be waking anyone up outside there house

twelve is the minimum but I’ve not had enough experience with shallow twelves, the si 12 is meant to be very good and the jl tw3 but I don’t like the high qts of shallow woofers generally (the sb acoustics was the exception to this rule, but that’s likely one of the best sq shallow subs made)

For me I will always pick a fullsize woofer if I can, no compromises on geometry or motor is always going to be better than trying to pack motor and excursion together in a shallow box

personally I love IB, that’s well documented and shows in my car with IB midbass and 15” subs 😎
Ha, that's a nice setup, i'd love to have something like this, unfortunately space, and budget don't make it possible. I know that rule 2 out of 3, so i need to figure out which is more important to me.

I'm a bit intrigued because i've bought a single amp, and low budget Edge 350.2 to power my fronts, now i have another 2 amps and looking to add widebands, rear woofers and subs and a whole custom trunk case for the amps with lights and fans, show-style if i can make it to the end...
This audio thing is just addictive :))
 

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You’ve been presented with some great advice and good knowledge share. But I wanted to throw a couple of other thoughts in to the mix.
i think the Prefab down firing Kicker Enclosures would work well in your application and most of them are passive radiator set ups which perform really well in you mentioned application.

The second thing I want to mention is you said something about being concerned with XMax , keep in mind that XMax is pretty much irrelevant in Ported/passive radiator enclosures. And is more important in a sealed application
 

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Ha, that's a nice setup, i'd love to have something like this, unfortunately space, and budget don't make it possible. I know that rule 2 out of 3, so i need to figure out which is more important to me.

I'm a bit intrigued because i've bought a single amp, and low budget Edge 350.2 to power my fronts, now i have another 2 amps and looking to add widebands, rear woofers and subs and a whole custom trunk case for the amps with lights and fans, show-style if i can make it to the end...
This audio thing is just addictive :))
Automotive parking light Hood Automotive lighting Motor vehicle Automotive tire


I’ll just leave this here 😂 for encouragement purposes… my old build

Tire Automotive tire Wheel Motor vehicle Automotive design


and my new one with 15’s instead of 12’s
 

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Not at all the case, if you compromise efficiency it’s very possible to get low bass from a compact box

There are three property’s of a sub

Compact enclosure
Low bass
Efficiency

pick two as all three are impossible
You've covered three topic better than me, the point I was trying to make it "just cause a slim sub will let you fit it somewhere, doesn't mean it'll perform."

Agreed though, pick 2 of 3.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
You’ve been presented with some great advice and good knowledge share. But I wanted to throw a couple of other thoughts in to the mix.
i think the Prefab down firing Kicker Enclosures would work well in your application and most of them are passive radiator set ups which perform really well in you mentioned application.

The second thing I want to mention is you said something about being concerned with XMax , keep in mind that XMax is pretty much irrelevant in Ported/passive radiator enclosures. And is more important in a sealed application
Thanks, i was also looking at some prefab downfiring as a good option, even Mark from CAF youtube channel built one. My actual thoughts is to build an enclosure like these downfire, but to place it in this way to fire to the cabin and when needed to incline them to backwards so that i can put my snowboards in the car. It will be a tricky build tho.
I would also like to build a custom setup so that i can design the looks. and over the sub/subs at about 1 inch tall tohave a steel grile for protection and practicability.
after all it;s my daily
About the enclosure and xmax, as far as i've read these shallow subs must be placed in sealed, not ported. I still need to get to hear some shallow subs with my own ears..never heard one
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I’ll just leave this here 😂 for encouragement purposes… my old build



and my new one with 15’s instead of 12’s
Mate, don't show off, you're getting me jealous, really :))). I have a motorcycle repair shop, so imagine i do enjoy building stuff, but these type of builds are out of the question for me, unfortunately.

But no mistake, you deserve CONGRATS and that Cup must be for good reasons.

Now, why did you switched from Zapco to Mosconi? I've seen Peter from PSSound youtube use a lot of Zapco for SQ.
Also,why not going with SQ amps from Ground Zero, as you had 2 woofers? or maybe Helix?
Probably, why not using Audiosn amps:)) damn, there are so many good names out there
 
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