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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hey all, I've read many, many posts on DIYMA as well as worshiped at the altar of the SDS site. Given things have changed since SDS, and we're (eagerly) awaiting the new sound tests from TS2F, I hacked together my own sound deadening stack for my Camry XLE. Can I get some thoughts on my approach?

Goal: Reduce overall road noise in the car. Sealed 10" in trunk. Will be covering everything but the engine area (going up firewall as high as I can reach)
  • MLV: Dynamat Xtreme (#3 in TS2F testing) (that's CLD, I need to find an MLV solution, thinking noico)
  • CLD: KnuKoncept Kno Noise 100mil (#2 in TS2F testing)
  • CCF: 1/8" neoprene from FoamByMail (specs similar to SDS)
My Questions:
1) I can't see any examples of using Dynamat with CCF under it, their videos do it the other way! But following SDS, for the floor I should lay down CCF first, then MLV, and use velcro to attach combined sheet to car. But for MLV <> CCF adherence, am I just unpeeling the Dynamat backing and adhering it to the CCF? The SDS MLV didn't have backing, which is why I'm assuming the cement was used?
2) Velcro strips: To attach this combo to the car, it makes sense for large areas, but what about those curvy areas around the wheel wells with many small pieces? Seems like there is a better way. Is it better to be creating a whole wheel "mold" out of MLV/CCF, and then just velcroing that?

Thanks for sharing your expertise, I feel like I'm almost there!
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
Hrm very interesting, this is helpful, thanks. So from what I’m reading there, decoupling using CCF is out now, and items like 3m thinsulate, batting are better decouplers.
Seems like I may just skip the decoupler unless I lay down some serious money for the thinsulate. But isn’t Thinsulate designed to be a thermal/sound barrier primarily?


I’m still a little confused on whether the Xtreme is truly a noise barrier or Dynapad is the MLV equivalent - given Dynapad is listed as heavier, yet looks like a foam material. I get the concepts of course, but it’s mapping to some of the products that isn’t clear.

I’m researching but Not able to find a comparison as all sites are just amazon affiliates repeating the wording off the box.

thanks again!
 

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Regarding the document I linked, I think the conclusion was to just keep the MLV from directly contacting the 2 surfaces that it sits between. For instance, when used in a door, just letting it hang would be the best option, but probably not the most practical.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Yes, that was discussed in there as well, which I took as the overall sentiment that air gaps are the effective way for sound reduction. We used to do that in warehouses, hanging heavy curtains a foot or so in front of the concrete wall instead of directly against.

And by talking aloud here, I see my mistake above: Dynamat X is a CLD, where the Dynapad is the acting (MLV) sound barrier along with CCF. What was confusing was seeing YouTube installs of 100% Xtreme coverage....
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Look at builds and you'll see almost no one uses MLV because it's so hard to install. I didn't believe it when I was told so. But I have met with the very harsh reality of it. Most people are just using CLD for sound deadening and CCF to manage rattles.
Good tip on looking at recent build logs, I’d been focused on consuming SDS.

That’s an eye opener on the MLV ! So surely MLV still adds value in dB reduction, but it’s just at the cost of our labor/frustration? Are you saying that nowadays thats a gain that many aren’t going for?
 

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Look at builds and you'll see almost no one uses MLV because it's so hard to install. I didn't believe it when I was told so. But I have met with the very harsh reality of it. Most people are just using CLD for sound deadening and CCF to manage rattles.
I just installed MLV on all of my doors and it was a real pain in the ass. It turned into a much larger project that I was expecting. I will say though ... by the time I got to that last door it got a lot easier! My door panels still don't want to stay connected to my doors. I just bought some different clips and I'm hoping that will fix the issue.

I ran CLD, CCF and MLV. The CLD I put patches all over the inside of the door, patches on my door panel itself, but I also covered the entire door in a giant piece of CLD to close off all the holes and cover just about everything.

6 months later, I got bored on quarantine and decided to do the CCF and MLV. The CCF went on easy enough, and the door fit back on easily, but when I put the MLV on it made everything too thick and I couldn't re-attach the panel. I still had the first layer of CLD on there behind the CCF. By the time I got to the last door, I started to get the process down pretty good. I marked everything I thought might be hindering the door panel going back on with some of my kids sidewalk chalk. This way I could see exactly what was rubbing and likely making it difficult to get the door panels back on. It involved:
1. leaving plenty of room around the door clips so nothing comes in their way (about a silver dollar size gap around the 8mm hole.)
2. I trimmed down almost every single plastic spacer (they make it so your door panel feels firm against the sheet metal instead of crumpling in or having obvious voids). I took them all down about 1/4" to accommodate the CLD, CCF and MLV. - this made a big difference.
3. The cupholders ended up being the main culprit. If I didn't have cupholders, I likely could have just gotten the door on with no problem. On my car, they were the part that had the most surface area against the sheet metal and were resistant to having any additional layers in between.
4. I heated my MLV with a hairdryer while it was being cut on my workbench to accommodate the foam blocks inside the door. I stretched the sh** out of that spot so that the MLV would accommodate the foam blocks. These blocks stick through the holes in the sheet metal - I think to help in the event of a side collision since there is a void in the sheet metal.
5. I just got new door clips today - I found one that is .5mm thicker than my normal door clip, and a different one that is 1mm thicker at its widest point - I'm going to try those out and see if I can get a tighter fit so they don't pop loose.

So yeah ... the MLV was a pain
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
1. leaving plenty of room around the door clips so nothing comes in their way (about a silver dollar size gap around the 8mm hole.)
Man, EVERYTHING you wrote was super helpful and actionable, thanks! While I’m waiting on the MLV, anything you think I should order to have on hand, like additional clips? I’d hate to get blocked a few days on waiting for a tiny part to arrive.

I have the CLD already but haven’t started because I don’t see how I could prep without the CCF and MLV in hand (14 days out). Any thoughts there on what you could have done ahead of time? I’m familiar with creating templates, but it seems the devil is in the Fit itself.
 

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1. Get the super sticky velcro and let it stick to your door a few days before you do your install. - I used two different brands in case one failed. I used the "Coil n Wrap" (I think this stuff is 1" x 4"? I would use 2 pieces per spot) as well as the Black Velcro Industrial Strength 4"x2". From what I've read - the Velcro is supposed to adhere for 24-48 hours to get its full bond. A lot of the complaints are from people who try and use it immediately. What I did was I cut a piece of plastic and put it in between the male and female - so that way when I pressed my MLV against it so that it would adhere, I was only fighting 20% of the Velcro so neither side wanted to rip off. This is something you can do ahead of time. You will then trim your CCF so that it does not cover the Velcro - so that the Velcro sticks from your sheet metal directly to the MLV. I only used the Velcro on the highest most parts because I figured this was where the weight was. I didn't have any problems with the MLV flapping around near the bottom, it hugged the door for the most part.
2. Make sure you get turpentine or something else to clean off all your surfaces - you then have to let it dry after you use it - plan ahead because you will have some down time waiting for it to dry. This is to make sure that any adhesives you are using will stick in ideal clean conditions.
3. I put some electrical tape around some 5/16 bolts (which fit almost perfectly into my clip holes) - this way I could hold up the MLV without needing a 3rd hand. I cut the holes for the clips LAST - this way I could use these bolts to hold up the MLV because it gets awkwardly heavy.
4. You can make a cardboard cutout of your door panel ahead of time - this way you can easily rough cut your MLV and it will be 95% cut and ready to put on your doors. I marked out the locations for the clip holes (to start, I only cut out enough for the clip hole itself - the last thing I did, literally before putting the door panel back on, was to cut out the clip holes to a big enough size so that there wouldn't be any issues getting the door panel back on.)
5. Mark the back of your door panel with chalk anywhere where you think it may hit the sheet metal or the door itself. Put the panel back on and press it all over real good and see if you can make any chalk marks on your sheet metal. If you can't, oh well, but you might get a sense for where the major pressure points are. Once you install the MLV, you will definitely be able to see the chalk marks to see where its potentially in too close of contact to get the door panel back on. You might even be able to put the piece of cardboard that you cut out in between the door panel and the door and see if you can see marks on that. The key is to be able to get a heads up for where its rubbing and won't fit back on - this was 90% of the hassle and the pain in the ass of the whole thing.
6. Look at anything that will need to penetrate through your MLV - for me this was my door handle, and the wiring for the power windows - these HAD to stick through the MLV. Consider any ways that you can minimize the hole you need to cut to get these through. The H-4 adhesive worked VERY well in repairing the MLV if you make a cut - but its worth considering if you can minimize the holes. I realized in retrospect that I could have disassembled some of my door knob and could have made my hole 75% smaller - Oh well.
7. When it was time to put the MLV on - I removed the plastic on the velcro, carefully eyeballed the correct location for the MLV to land, and then pressed it into the adhesive of the Velcro and made sure I got a good bond. I then took the MLV off and let it sit for a day to let the adhesive bond. It might have been overkill but it also happened to fit my schedule.

Odd Items I used: The aforementioned bolts, I did NOT need any clips I bought them after the fact to see if they would help, turpentine and a rag, velcro (get more than you think you'll need), an Olfa knife or a flexible long blade (to trim plastic off your door panel), Aluminum backed tape (super sticky, sticks to the MLV and my door) - I'm not sure if I was supposed to use this, but i taped down every edge of my MLV so that there were 0 holes or seams or anything in my door., a hair dryer or a handheld heater gun to stretch the MLV around the door foam (this took a bit of patience but it ended up helping quite a bit).

I did not have any luck adhering MLV to CCF with the H-4 adhesive - I put heavy weights on it and let it dry for 24 hours in ideal conditions and it didn't really stick. There is a possibility that I didn't do it correctly, but after losing 24 hours of drying time I ended up not adhering the CCF to the MLV.
 

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Aluminum backed tape (super sticky, sticks to the MLV and my door) - I'm not sure if I was supposed to use this, but i taped down every edge of my MLV so that there were 0 holes or seams or anything in my door.,
I'm not sure if I was supposed to do this. I'd love to get feedback on if this step was necessary. It added 15 minutes per door. My idea was that this would make the MLV a complete seal against the door. The only spaces that air could go through (besides the window, and the vents at the bottom) was through the door clips and where the speaker cutout was.

The photo shows a little boot shaped indent on the right, this is where I stretched the MLV with a portable heat gun to accomodate the door foam. The reflective tape stuck well, on first impressions it look like it was peeling, but a few days later it was oozing adhesive (not a lot, but enough to show it was stuck) and was very secure. I put it anywhere that there was a cut, hole, or transition from the MLV to sheetmetal.
 

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I found some super long clips and basically used the door trim to hold the mlv and ccf to the door like a sandwich. Also, i think resonix might sell the good velcro that Don used to stock at SDS. That stuff is absolutely amazing.
 

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I found some super long clips and basically used the door trim to hold the mlv and ccf to the door like a sandwich. Also, i think resonix might sell the good velcro that Don used to stock at SDS. That stuff is absolutely amazing.
Oh yeah ... I didn't think of getting longer clips. I guess I thought they would make my door panel stick out more than it needs to.
 

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I recently ccf and mlv the entire interior of my truck. It already had cld. It took 40 hours. I kid you not. I used the entire 100 sq ft. of mlv. My truck doesnt have a lot of weird curves so it was "easy." The nasty shower pan epoxy is the ticket to get the mlv to bond together. But it does leave a smell. I noticed it still yesterday and hope it will go away soon. I also used alot of gorilla tape (I used more than one of the largest rolls from HD) to help hold things up. The mlv made a bigger difference than just cdl, of course. But it is not dead silent, that can't be expected. A few trim panel are not completely staying on, though it is an old vehicle and some of the fasteners are missing, so I am getting more of those to help.
 

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I guess I'm the only one who uses CLD, MLV, CCF, thinsulate, and melamine foam in the same car lol

Can't forget jute and lead.
What are your thoughts on jute? I have about an inch of it under my factory carpet, should I just leave it, or upgrade to something better? I was considering just adding that lead based product from Cascade underneath it...
 
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