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the darkside is loud
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I don't know what happened to Thinsulate Acoustic. We used it and sold it for years. It was a great product but 3M gave me no support at all - no technical data and no response when I tried to get answers to QC issues. I believe their primary interest was using it in engineered OEM parts.

The first problem for me was when they dropped the white scrim on the fiber side. Didn't impact performance but made it harder to work with. Then I started getting rolls with big drop outs in the fiber layer. While I was trying to resolve those issues 3M more than doubled the price. Made it untenable for me to continue with the product. I suspect other sellers had the same issues.

(edited).
Don unless you become a DIYMA vendor which I highly recommend you do, you can't be doing the promotional ads thing such as free samples; and even then not in someone else's thread.
 

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Discussion Starter #1,723
Re: Sound Deadening (CLD) Testing RESULTS

My margin of error for these tests is +/- 0.75db. I have ran multiple tests of quite a few products, and that is the repeatable margin of error I have encountered.






Here's ALL the results in order of appearance:

KnuKonceptz KnoKnoise Resonance Control
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/1942672-post215.html

GTMat Ultra
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/1942915-post223.html

Resonance Control
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/1942919-post224.html

STP-Atlantic Bomb
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/1943596-post239.html

Peel N Seal
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/1944963-post250.html

Alphadamp
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/1944965-post251.html

Stinger Roadkill Expert
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/1945441-post260.html

Sounddeadenershowdown.com CLD Tiles
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/1945448-post261.html

Dynamat Xtreme
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/1945898-post275.html

KnuKoncepts Kolossus
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/1945902-post276.html

stp gold
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/1951066-post360.html

GTMat Onyx
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/1951067-post361.html

Second Skin Damplifier Pro
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/1954600-post373.html

Memphis Audio Mojo Mat
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/1954607-post374.html

STP-Atlantic Silver
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/1954612-post375.html

Raamat BXT2
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/1955606-post386.html

GTMat 110mil
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/1956243-post421.html

GTMat 50mil
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/1956246-post423.html

GTMat Quadro
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/1966307-post479.html

*STP Vizomat*
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/1971578-post507.html


I've quoted Seedling's (Chad's) post so that these are at the end of the thread.
 

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Discussion Starter #1,725
My current top three, based entirely on performance and heat testing, in the order I would put them.


1st - Sound Deadener Showdown CLD Tiles
2nd - Silent Coat 4mm
3rd - KnoKonceptz Kolossus

With the products I have left to test, I don't see SDS CLD Tiles being knocked off top spot. In fact, its been top spot since it was first tested. With heat testing mostly finished, Kolossus got knocked down a notch to Silent Coat 4mm. But neither can come close to matching SDS's heat tolerance, and that is a big deal for me. As I've said before, I firmly believe that products that withstand a wider range of temperatures, will also damp vibrations better at a wider range a temperatures. I can't objectively prove it without building a far more expensive test rig, but all the information available points to that being true. Living somewhere where temps get to 110F in the summer, that is important to me.


As I said in the first post, I would be using the top testing overall product, regardless of price, in my personal builds. In a few weeks, I will be installing some SDS in my personal (well my wife's) car, and will be taking before and after measurements.

Price wise, the top three breakdown as following. I've excluded bulk packs, and limited amounts to 35 square feet. In a normal install, more than that shouldn't be needed.

1 - KnuKonceptz Kolossus - $5.42-$4 per square foot, for normal amounts.
2 - SDS CLD Tiles - $6.36-$5.40 per square foot, for normal amounts.
3 - Silent Coat 4mm - $5.47 per square foot*

I've listed Silent Coat as third, because they only seem to have one price point at this time, and in order to do a whole car, their price point is higher than SDS. Buying 16.6 square feet of SDS gets you to $5.40 per square foot, where 15.36 square feet of Silent Coat is $5.47. Anything over that is still $5.47.

The pro's of SDS is direct customer service from the owner and original CLD tester, along with a killer no frills website that is the only sound deadening website that I have found from any company not to have at least one lie, stretch of the truth, or statement of ignorance, along with the best overall product when considering the requirements of a CLD designed for car use. It's also the lightest of the top 3 products, by at least 25%. The only con I can come up with is price, but as far as I'm personally concerned the price is justified. As said earlier, this is what I'll personally be using. (Previously, I would have listed difficulty in ordering as a con as well, as some people had reported issues, but, now that SDS has a fully working cart system implemented, that is a non issue anymore)

The pro's of Silent Coat 4mm are slightly better damping (and by slight I mean right at the edge of this test's tolerance). The cons are again, price, as well as a lower heat tolerance level, highest weight of the top 3, and a weak constraining layer. Some might remember, that Silent Coat is the product I had issues with using the stamper to cut out, as the stress caused the constraining layer to tear on the edges. This is the only product I've had do this. I would not use this in an area where heavy rubbing or sliding might take place.

The pro for Kolossus is price. Its the lowest priced, high performing product, performing just under SDS in damping (performing below SDS by right at the tolerances of the testing). The cons, well, slightly less damping performance, a flammable plastic coating on the aluminum the second highest weight of the top 3, and significantly less heat stability. I don't think the product performs low enough in heat testing to fall off, but I do think SDS would perform measurably better in summer conditions. Likewise, I don't think the flammable coating is going to cause an issue (its also not the only product that has this), but it does need to be mentioned.






If you are building a car that needs to be light weight, but still want a damping material, Dynamat Xtreme is the only way to go. It is the lightest weight to performance material out there, period. It performs, in my tests, as well as Damplifier Pro, and almost as well as STP Silver, which are both heavier. It also performs significantly better than Raamat BXT2, the other lightweight product.


I would stay away from anything from GTMat. None of their products had the combined performance and heat resistance to convince me to use them in any way shape or form in a vehicle.

Peel N Seal is an obvious no, as is Fatmat.

Alphadamp is discontinued (and performed just under Damplifier Pro) and Murdermat has discontinued their best product, and has supply issues.

I would not personally use Silent Coat 2mm or 5mm, the first due to the performance, the second due to smell and heat resistance.

I would not use Raamat BXT2, Memphis Mojo Mat, KnuKonceptz KnoKnoise Resonance Control, Stinger Roadkill Expert, or STP-Atlantic Vizomat due to low performance.

I would not use STP-Atlantic Bomb due to poor heat resistance.

I would not personally use Second Skin Audio's Damplifier Pro. The product itself has nothing wrong with it, its just that there are better products out there based on my testing for the same cost. It performs around the same level as Dynamat Xtreme in my testing, and holds up to heat fine.












I REALLY hate doing this, but this thread is now finished. I will be having it locked after this post.

As I have stated a few times, there is a situation that I've been waiting on for it to boil over. Well that time has come. It unfortunately has the possibility to affect me severely not only in financial terms, but also with the living arrangements of my family and I. It is not something directly caused by my family or I, but it is something we have to deal with none the less.

I am not actually finished testing. All products I still have will be wrapped up, and stored in a temperature controlled setting until I can finish testing. Unfortunately, this other issue will be taking all of my time for the time being. When I am able to finish all testing, a new thread will be made, with all results present, both the ones listed here and all new ones.


Thank you for everyone who helped me out with this project.
 

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Discussion Starter #1,726 (Edited)
For those that aren't aware, I'm back, and am gearing up for more testing. Figured I'd add a link to the new thread here, for the people that haven't been around in a while, or those who find this via google. There is a go fund me for the next test rig, which will be night and day better than the one used in this thread, and it will be a permanent addition to my garage, enabling testing for the foreseeable future. It will be able to run tests at multiple temps between 50-110F, record audio during the tests for people to hear and analyze in audacity, and have a significantly lower noise floor than last time.


https://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/member-reviews-product-comparisons/415165-cld-testing.html
 
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