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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I have a mid size 4 door sedan and building a sound quality system to listen to classic rock to classical music. No rap at all.


What are some good brand and model SQ subs up to say $250 that will have a nice tight quick bass drum kick sound to them and sound as close to the recording as possible?

What size and sealed or ported?

With thanks,
 

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I'm a verity listener (i like swing / big band expectedly), i fully enjoy my 12ich infinity Kappa it sounds good on every type of music, and they're on sale at moment for 100$ on Amazone (spring/summer of 2021)(normally there out of my price range at nearly 250$) , I build boxes and for sq, i would run it in a 3/4ich OSD 1.1qsf sealed box (what i run it in -but i also have it in the cab of my truck) the kappa's at 500rms is not as loud as my old sub (Kenwood 1200 roadS at 250rms) but the sound quality is night and day .. if it's in a car trunk i would run 2x kappas
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I'm a verity listener (i like swing / big band expectedly), i fully enjoy my 12ich infinity Kappa it sounds good on every type of music, and they're on sale at moment for 100$ on Amazone (spring/summer of 2021)(normally there out of my price range at nearly 250$) , I build boxes and for sq, i would run it in a 3/4ich OSD 1.1qsf sealed box (what i run it in -but i also have it in the cab of my truck) the kappa's at 500rms is not as loud as my old sub (Kenwood 1200 roadS at 250rms) but the sound quality is night and day .. if it's in a car trunk i would run 2x kappas
Awesome thanks- have you found a 10 inch is not sufficient? My fellow drummer buddy thinks his 10 was faster than the same sub in a 12 on the bass drum. Any input on that?

Also did you mean OSB instead of OSD?
 

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$250 or under- Thanks
The Dayton HO series are highly regarded in terms of bang for your buck so I'd say take a look at this one. Dayton 12" HO

The fast vs. slow sub has been debated to death, but ultimately if you buy a quality driver and put it in an appropriately sized enclosure it will perform well. 10 vs 12 will depend on how much space you have, how loud you want it to play, and how low you want it to dig. IMO go with the largest sub you can afford and fit. As the saying goes "There's no replacement for displacement"
 

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My fellow drummer buddy thinks his 10 was faster than the same sub in a 12 on the bass drum.
This is a myth. Typically a larger sub will sound better than a smaller sub since it won’t have to work as hard to create the same amount of output.
 

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The Dayton HO series are highly regarded in terms of bang for your buck so I'd say take a look at this one. Dayton 12" HO

The fast vs. slow sub has been debated to death, but ultimately if you buy a quality driver and put it in an appropriately sized enclosure it will perform well. 10 vs 12 will depend on how much space you have, how loud you want it to play, and how low you want it to dig. IMO go with the largest sub you can afford and fit. As the saying goes "There's no replacement for displacement"
not true at all. I have used large subs for years (15"/18"). Most of this is a function of the enclosure and installation. If a person says they heard a sub and it was slow or sloppy, I usually can bet money that the sub is not in the correct box for the application. Pre-fab boxes also play into this. People go to shop or the internet and buy generic boxes and sometimes that works but a lot of times it is just off for the sub.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
The Dayton HO series are highly regarded in terms of bang for your buck so I'd say take a look at this one. Dayton 12" HO

The fast vs. slow sub has been debated to death, but ultimately if you buy a quality driver and put it in an appropriately sized enclosure it will perform well. 10 vs 12 will depend on how much space you have, how loud you want it to play, and how low you want it to dig. IMO go with the largest sub you can afford and fit. As the saying goes "There's no replacement for displacement"

Great sounds really good.

. I have a couple still new JL Audio 12W4-4 that I bought new back in 1995 that I have not used so I'll give them a try . Being my buddy's 10 sounded so good I figured I'd not u8se them since he thought they were as fast on kick drum.
Dayton does make some great stuff and at fair pricing.

I bought several brand new X-Power Poweramper amps they had left over when they went out of business 14 years ago still sitting in their boxes that I hope are still good since they've been sitting around for 14 years. Great quality amps for SQ.



Thanks very much for your help.
 

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not true at all. I have used large subs for years (15"/18"). Most of this is a function of the enclosure and installation. If a person says they heard a sub and it was slow or sloppy, I usually can bet money that the sub is not in the correct box for the application. Pre-fab boxes also play into this. People go to shop or the internet and buy generic boxes and sometimes that works but a lot of times it is just off for the sub.
How is what I said not true? You just said the exact same thing just in a different way...
 

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Awesome thanks- have you found a 10 inch is not sufficient? My fellow drummer buddy thinks his 10 was faster than the same sub in a 12 on the bass drum. Any input on that?

Also did you mean OSB instead of OSD?
i have no exp with 10ich kappa's - my 12ich kappa seems fast - it thumps -( Metallica, am I evil - will give that chest thump on it)- i run it in a 1.1 SFT sealed box (manufacture recommendations it's small enough it sits in my trucks middle back-seat with my 10ich Fosgate slim on the floor under it(i run 2 subs 10 and 12ich) leaving me with 2 back seats that are not cramped (mostly for kids its a 94 doge Dakota) the Kenwood needs a 1.25 (1.32) SFT and that little bit makes the seat's horrible (covers up seatbelt buckles also) i might go with a 10ich next time if i still driving in a truck for the space-saving on the box- and get an infinity reference 10inch slim- if I ever hit the lotto .. if space was not an issue- i love 15ich woofers but i like a lot of acoustic music (bluegrass/swing / big band) and 15's seem to have that better sound but that's just an opinion - I'm sure someone can amaze me with 2 8ich'es
yes osd mistype
 

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Kappa 1200W subs sound INCREDIBLE. If you snoop around on Amazon, you can score for $103 each, shipped.

I am FULLY impressed with the 1200Ws, in a sealed box with 1.1cu ft (gross) vol per sub, sealed.
 

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The fast vs. slow sub has been debated to death, but ultimately if you buy a quality driver and put it in an appropriately sized enclosure it will perform well.
It's possible that inexpensive 15's and 18's are "slow" because they use a magnet and voice coil designed for an 8" sub.

Does anyone use isobaric loading anymore?
 

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I have always questioned the claim of a larger subs being better for SQ,


1) Helix has the ability to produce 15inch subs such as the Q15 then why is its ultra high end sub from Brax the ML10 a 10incher?


2) Again Focal has had 33-40 even 46cm (18inch) Kpro series subs and still carry plenty 12inch models but for Utopia M series there Sub is sub10WM why a 10 incher?

3) Rainbows carries plenty 12inchers yet for its extreme top end Profi line it uses PL-S10 another 10incher.


I find it hard to believe that all this is a coincedence that these high end global reputable companies that already carry 12 or even 15inch subs only offer 10inch products for there ultimate high end series
 

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I have always questioned the claim of a larger subs being better for SQ,


1) Helix has the ability to produce 15inch subs such as the Q15 then why is its ultra high end sub from Brax the ML10 a 10incher?


2) Again Focal has had 33-40 even 46cm (18inch) Kpro series subs and still carry plenty 12inch models but for Utopia M series there Sub is sub10WM why a 10 incher?

3) Rainbows carries plenty 12inchers yet for its extreme top end Profi line it uses PL-S10 another 10incher.


I find it hard to believe that all this is a coincedence that these high end global reputable companies that already carry 12 or even 15inch subs only offer 10inch products for there ultimate high end series
because the ten inch models are made for sq and lower levels of listening, it’s all relative to how much output you want, if you want lifelike levels of sound with heavy bass lines good luck getting a 10” sub to perform… I have only ever heard one ten inch sub I could have coped with long term… a hertz Mille 250

for sq competitions and people the sq subs are aimed at you’ve listed aren’t so efficient, they play low in small enclosures and Hoffman’s iron law says something has to give…

id probably need three or four tens to get the output I require of the ones you’ve listed, I have considered it, generally also tens have lower moving mass and smaller coil sizes so it’s easier to keep inductance down to a degree

however if you want a rising response to 20hz so 20hz sounds equally as loud vs 80hz then a ten will sound a little asthmatic and run out of steam

something like a Dayton RSS390HF is an awesome sq sub, lowish inductance and a very nice motor with copper in it to reduce distortion and generally make it perform very well and be easy to blend

also bigger subs tend to have an effortless quality at lower freqs
 

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I have great respect for you Dumdum and greatly appreciate all you have shared to the site and have supported me with as an individual with the issues I hade previously.


however this reply doesnt really answer the question I tried to impose.

1) does Audio Fisher not know better then to use a 10inch in there flagshipline? or Focal (Utopia),Rainbow (Profi), Gladen (Aerospace) and the list goes on and on.

2) Isnt how much output we need on a sub relative to how much output we have upfront ?
3) how much output does one actually need for an actual SQ setup upfront and on sub?
4) to what degree do we really need the sub to play low at,whats the reality of 20hz content in music we listen to?
5) again do all these very high end manufacturers not know better then to offer a 15-18inch SQ and get clean lows,efficient output and call it a day?

6) alot of SQ champions indeed do have 12-15inch subs but going by what is stated in this topic we shouldnt see many 10inchers however thats not the case I have seen alot of champions run/get away with a single 10 inch
 
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