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Soundening/Treating Vehicle

8K views 84 replies 23 participants last post by  SkizeR 
#1 ·
I have a 2012 Mustang GT.
I have the following materials
Noico 80mil sound deadener 72ft sq
40ft sq of 1 lb mlv and ccf
Raamat BXT 2 (6 pieces)
Raamat Ensolite IUO 1 yd sq
I just wanted to make sure Im headed in the right direction on sound deadening the vehicle.
Doors (roughly 2’ by 4’)
Sound deadening on the inner and outer door skin. The mlv/ ccf before the door panel.
The doors have isolated pockets for the midbass speakers.(where the
Floor/ Rear deck and Roof ?
Sound deadener, then mlv/ccf

i think I may need some additional supplies to finish up.
I will be running a 3 way front with
Hybrid Audio Legatia L1v2 tweets (custom pods)
Hybrid Audio Legatia L4 mids
Stereo Integrity TM65 mounted on alum rings
Dayton dsp off factory radio
Not sure of rest yet (ie: subs, amps)
 
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#5 · (Edited)
I have had Raammat in several vehicles in humid 105 degree summers and never had any issues with it. It is good stuff. I would use the Raammat bxt on the front doors, with the ensolite over the top of it. The noice 80mil on the floor and firewall and trunk. I would ditch the mlc and ccf and instead buy more ensolite so you can put it over all of the mat. The mlc doesnt do much good unless you cover everything and will weigh your car down and the ccf is way thicker than you need (the ensolite prevents panel to panel vibration plenty). Also get some more Raammat to put on the outer door skins if you can even reach them.
 
#6 ·
I have had Raammat in several vehicles in humid 105 degree summers and never had any issues with it. It is good stuff. I would use the Raammat bxt on the front doors, with the ensolite over the top of it. The noice 80mil on the floor and firewall and trunk. I would ditch the mlc and ccf and instead buy more ensolite so you can put it over all of the mat. Also get some more Raammat to put on the outer door skins if you can even reach them.
Heres two pics from members here who used raammat in their cars... the stuff melts in higher temps. The noico does as well, and is also partially asphalt based. Had it in my personal car at one point. had to clean the remaining goop off with a paint scraper lol





Also, the ensolite is too thin/too stiff to really act as a proper decoupler, and gets hard and crusty over time. Not trying to be the negative salesman type, but in my opinion its better to say something in these situations than to stay quiet. If OP really needs to save money, just get dynamat extreme. It does a decent job at resonance control and will not melt
 
#7 ·
Wondering if those pics were the original raammat. I have only used the bxt2 and have never had that happen. Never experienced hard and crusty ensolite either. Twice i have uninstalled speakers, subs etc from vehicles i have owned before i sold them and the bxt2 and ensolite was fine after 2 to 3 years of being in the cars (105 and humid summers, in the teens in the winter). Just saying he will be fine putting it in. The noice however i have never used as that stuff is too cheap for me lol. But if he already bought it...the i guess use it or sell it.
 
#8 ·
I am sure I had the original Raammat and it made a mess of my doors and my trunk. Don't care which version, they burned me and I will never use them again. My wife and I both lost nice pants to the stuff leaking out the weep holes of my door. In this case, it cost me quite a bit more to go with a "cheaper" product. Since SDS is no longer in business, I bought some Resonix to use when I finally open up my doors again.
 
#11 ·
I can show you pics where it fell on several amps of mine. Thought it destroyed them. However Goof-off and elbow grease worked wonders. It did however mark up the carpet and ruin RCA's. I didn't have a headliner in the vehicle but as the manufacturer said that should have held kept the roof cooler. They were good and offered to pay for my amp repair but I couldn't ever use or recommend their stuff again.

After that failure I started to research deadening. Learned about why/why not full coverage, the proper steps, and why CLD/CCF works. It's definitely not just about "staying stuck". Not to mention after reading scientific test results that shows those type of products ineptitude. I would admit it was likely their first stuff as it was 10+ year ago but who cares. You only let a jack stand fail once.
 
#16 ·
I can show you pics where it fell on several amps of mine. Thought it destroyed them. However Goof-off and elbow grease worked wonders. It did however mark up the carpet and ruin RCA's. I didn't have a headliner in the vehicle but as the manufacturer said that should have held kept the roof cooler. They were good and offered to pay for my amp repair but I couldn't ever use or recommend their stuff again.

After that failure I started to research deadening. Learned about why/why not full coverage, the proper steps, and why CLD/CCF works. It's definitely not just about "staying stuck". Not to mention after reading scientific test results that shows those type of products ineptitude. I would admit it was likely their first stuff as it was 10+ year ago but who cares. You only let a jack stand fail once.
I can show you pics of my car now that i am pulling out some melted parts express deadener before i install some ResoNix that Nick sent me. Its a mess once you open your doors 2 years later.
 
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#26 ·
Check Fakespot on that amp, it gets an F rating for review reliability. Noico gets between B and D depending on the product.
So wait, is that a website dedicated to filtering out fake reviews? Or reviews with lack of experience?

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#29 ·
I have no dog in this fight nor do I have a lot of experience with these materials. But I will say this. Customer reviews may be terrific for a product when they first use it. With something like this however, it seems to me that the negative effects will only become evident with time.
 
#32 ·
On top of that, buy from a reputable manufacture/brand. One that will be around for a long time to stand behind their product. The fan boys of the boutique brand stuff are very often short lived and disappointed.
 
#33 ·
Please forgive my long post:

Just to add my 2 cents, cheaper isn’t always better. There is a reason products that are sold cheaper than others. Some of it is due to using lesser quality products/materials, not paying for their own designer/engineer to design said product, using lesser quality tolerances, etc. Sometimes, a less expensive product works fine for what you need said product to do, but in my experience that is usually not the case. Nor does the most expensive product yield the best result.

Over the years, I try and find the middle ground. I still get sucked into the marketing gimmick of price and it still bites me once in awhile. I try and get quality products that won’t break me. Sometimes this means I have to wait or hold off on finishing something. In the case of the CLD, there is really no unbiased way to fully determine which actually performs the best. There are specs on some, per the manufacture’s site but there is no non profit organization that test the effectiveness of these products and provides the documentation to back them up. I maybe wrong but if there was there is no publicly provided documentation. Heck, even though there is a certain standard for amplifier ratings, certain manufactures still lie out of their teeth about how much power they provide. We should work on using common sense when it comes to some of this stuff. Uninformed consumers will continue to buy cheap products because of price and Amazon hasn’t helped that.

So from my experience, I have used Dynamat in three of my cars over the past 30+ years, showing my age here, with good results. My first car, there really wasn’t much competition, early 90’s, so it was my only option. My second car, I think some car audio manufactures were adding to their lines but it wasn’t their core business. So, how did they provide it. By going to a third party and having them do the leg work of design, production, etc. That same third party also probably sold the same product with different name to others, which is how said third party made money. Were they cheaper than Dynamat, yes but not by much, so I stuck with it. On my latest car, I used the CLD testing that was in this forum and went with the Knu Knoise Kolossus Edition CLD. Pricing was very good so I went with it, did it work, yes. It did an excellent job, however there was a small price I paid for the lower cost. It didn’t melt but stayed very pliable during the hotter months in Oklahoma. So in my trunk, where placed heavy tool bags, baseball equipment, etc, the Kno Knoise Butyl layer squeezed out and stuck to things. Is this a deal breaker, no. I opened up one of my doors a few weeks back and all the deadener in the door looked as good as the day I put it on. This product has been in my car for 4 years.

one final example, my church has bought plenty of cheap stuff over the years I have served there as the audio engineer (soundman). And in every instance, those products have been removed, didn’t work at all, or broke. Finally the past 10 years, I have gotten them to realize there is a minimum we should strive for and the results speak for themselves. Products last longer, quality of the overall audio is improved, etc. I also don’t worry if the next Sunday is going to a disaster.

So, would I use the Noico, no. I try and steer clear of the cheap stuff. I guess what I am trying to say, there is a market level for everyone, for me, it’s not the cheapest stuff. For others it is and they are fine with that. They just need to know that there is a price to pay, no pun intended, for what they buy. I have other examples, etc but I will stop here.
 
#37 ·
Jtrosky, you caught me. Apparently "a manufacturer i work with tested it" is apparently different than "a manufacturer i work with sent it out for mass spectrometry testing since no one really does that in house". You caught me buddy :)

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#39 ·
Well, I read a ton of reviews for Noico first. Saw nearly all good things. Finished my entire truck last week, and wow ! Freaking loving it 🙂 Still get a kick out of closing the doors 🙂

ZERO smell before, during, or after installation. I live in Sacramento CA. Yesterday was around 105F degrees (in the paved areas) and still no smell or melting that I'm aware of.

Highly recommended.
 
#40 ·
I want to start installing my system.
What products would be best to use that I have or can purchase ?
Looking at only doing doors and trunk for now.
The midbass will be in the bottom of the door panel in their own enclosure.
The mids will be in the 6x8 speaker opening.
I changed out the muffler and it is quieter inside the car
 
#41 ·
#53 ·
When you actualy learn that you have bunch of ccf and ofc foams of different use and material. Than on top of that when you learn fundamentals of words like absorbing, damping, and blocking. Than you realise that bunch of brands like second skin, stp, resonix, ctk and others actualy sells bunch of same stuff specified just to confuse and manipulate buyer, so you buy more types of materia.
liner here liner there, liner pro, overkill, splen,
Ccf, ofc, mlv, cld are very cheap stuff to produce, and should be the most cheapest stuff in the whole car audio. But as we all know its pricing is like it a 24k gold bars. Resonix ccf is 35 dollars sheat that can do half of the door if it is properly done, and what can you do with 5mm fat ccf except floor/trunk??????
I buy my stuff from industry it self not some second handed brand that orders from them for few dollars and than sells me for 35,50,75 dollars. Same goes for cables, and etc...
 
#55 ·
Than you realise that bunch of brands like second skin, stp, resonix, ctk and others actualy sells bunch of same stuff specified just to confuse and manipulate buyer, so you buy more types of material.
Please don't Include us in there. We absolutely do not manipulate anyone into buying anything. There is nothing on our site that tries to sell you. Its all just information to make an informed decision.

Also, I promise you that you cannot buy any of this directly from a manufacturer unless you're buying multiple pallets at a time. If you're not getting multiple pallets at a time, there is a middle man. Unless you're calling manufacturers and asking for "samples", which only two that I encountered would do, but the good manufacturer out of the bunch didn't even send enough to do a single door.
 
#54 ·
How do you buy from the industry since most industries in general usually have minimum order quantities or they won’t sell to you? And how do you know what you’re buying will hold up to heat and not melt all over your doors and car as happened to me with a “good” name brand.

But you’re really pointing out caveat emptor. Consumers with more knowledge may be able to spend less for quality. Always has been that way and likely always will. Knowledge is power.
 
#56 ·
pardon,i buy direct from people theatactually produce the material. K- flexbrand is great sorce for ccf and ofc insulation foams.If you look closely they have datasheats on products because its professionali use. Ifound where i can supply it here in eu. For cld i use oldknown alphard sheets. They are easy labeled from 1.5mm thicknes up to 4mm and also you can chose rigidity. I really hate mlv and i have something that is called soprema tech sound 50...it have datasheat with temperatures and norms bla bla i buy whole roll of 7 meters by meter and something for 150dollars direct from them.
but now my trend is sheat lead instead of mlv for doors. Sandwich it with ofc polyethilene and velcro to inner door panel. also i use tessa cloth tapes and butyl rubber silicone that never hardens and its cost half of the “rope“ and you have it more...

this is what i use in +40 Croatia summers, also once i get my car so hot that speaker spyder unglue. Never had any problem with these materials.

everyone in the sq groups pushing resonix because they know skizer. And all they say that its soft and easy plyable. I never had any problems with plying cheapest stuff nor had problems with plying cld and ccf stuff around curvature, only with gluing that its not really a problem until you buy china stuff, so i get hard on them because there is no actual point why i should buy it. And now i see posts where guy bashing other firms while selling ccf foma for 35dollars. I would not ranting about your business but you should be more on the ground when ranting other brands
 
#58 ·
I am familar with sds. Great guy, actualy point us in right direction towards automotive insulation. I use cld from alphard mainly because they work for me great and i have 0 problems for 2 years know (from snow to burning hot summers). For ccf, ofc from k flex, its all documented in pdf. From environmental performance, to approvals. Also for Soprema techsound 50 there is actual manual and datasheat. Lead is superior to the mlv from a thicknes standpoint and its proven in car by some sq enthusiast and well established As a house noise block material.

I pay for my whole little hatchback insulation around 350 dollars and i have materials for more. From you i cant get lower than 5mm ccf or better ofc for inner door. If i sandwich lead or mlv with your ccf i would get 1cm fat layer and that is just without cld. Also 5yards of ccf without shiping 180$ HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH we are talking about polyethylene sponge for over roof price....I can do just floor from front to back of the trunk. And thats just ccf for 50% of car.

i wont argue any more. I dont like your way of pushing your product so i point out my opinion.
 
#59 ·
I am familar with sds. Great guy, actualy point us in right direction towards automotive insulation.
awesome. Have you used their products before? If you have, you obviously know they're good. I have no problem posting these now as their doors have been closed for over a year, but if you want to see frequency response and waterfall response comparisons of SDS vs ResoNix Squares, just PM me your email and I can send you the .mdat file

I use cld from alphard
Oh, so you don't go direct to factory...

If i sandwich lead or mlv with your ccf i would get 1cm fat layer and that is just without cld.
Thankfully our foam is very compressible, which is what sets it apart from typical closed cell foams available in the US


Also 5yards of ccf without shiping 180$ HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH we are talking about polyethylene sponge for over roof price....I can do just floor from front to back of the trunk. And thats just ccf for 50% of car.
1) Yes, 5 yards (67.5 square feet) of 10mm thick foam for 180 bucks. Id be willing to bet that you cant find a comparable CCF (similar compression deflection, compression set, adhesive quality, etc..) for even close to that price.

2) Our foam is not made out of polyethylene. good guess though..?

i wont argue any more. I dont like your way of pushing your product so i point out my opinion.
that's perfectly fine. I only sell to people who want the best, not the cheapest :)
 
#71 ·
Honestly, I don't think that anyone doubts that Resonix outperforms Noico. If they were the same price, I'm sure more people would choose Resonix. But Noico is significantly cheaper and works well enough for most people.

It's really no different than some people will buy a Dayton DSP even though a Helix DSP is "better". It all boils down to what someone is willing to spend and how good is "good enough".
 
#72 ·
Honestly, I don't think that anyone doubts that Resonix outperforms Noico. If they were the same price, I'm sure more people would choose Resonix. But Noico is significantly cheaper and works well enough for most people.

It's really no different than some people will buy a Dayton DSP even though a Helix DSP is "better". It all boils down to what someone is willing to spend and how good is "good enough".
I had the opportunity since we were doing some deadening anyway, so thought "might as well". Ya know?:
 
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