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Discussion Starter #1
I'm considering a revision to my set up... if i did, i want to move the midbasses to the kick area, and possible try an AP vent to the outside. I don't have another option for the midrange drivers unless i went to stock door locations, which i don't want to do.

so if i threw in a 6.5" or 7 driver under the mids you see pictured:http://i1136.photobucket.com/albums/n484/rumymatt/DSCN2760.jpg

do you see the positioning of both drivers in close proximity to each other causing any imaging or tonal issues. if anything, i think the midrange might block the midbass slightly (just a bit), but the mids currently run to 200hz, and mb on down.

any thoughts?
 

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Question: if you moved your mid bass to the kicks, what would be the value in crossing them and your mids at 200hz?

In my mind, the value of crossing that low is to take advantage of equal path lengths, as much as possible.

At this point, the real purpose of the mids is to cross them over befor your mid bass start to beam. Ideally, if the midbass didn't start to beam until 1600hz or so, your no longer dealing with ITD and the mids could be placed in the doors or at the widest possible location in the car, preferably, well away from reflective surfaces, like the windshield.

Just my .02
 

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Discussion Starter #3
interesting... i just always assumed it's best to keep the midbass playing in the ... well.. midbass type range... 80-350hz or so

i'll have to look a little bit deeper into what you are suggesting...

you don't think having mids in the stock locations would cause any staging issue (completely off axis?). I always thought it best to have the mids on axis to the listener.

ps midbass in question is the scan 18wu
 

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Discussion Starter #4
anyone else have any thoughts on problems with a mid and midbass in the kicks... ?? i don't foresee any issues as long as the midbass doesn't block the midrange... am i ok to continue?
 

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you still have my phone #?

Give me a ring. I'd like to help but it's hard for me to type everything up. I got your pm by the way. Just call me up when/if you get a chance.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
you still have my phone #?

Give me a ring. I'd like to help but it's hard for me to type everything up. I got your pm by the way. Just call me up when/if you get a chance.
i got it... i'll have to give you a ring tomorrow... watching a movie with the wife before bed and the laptop on my ...well.. my lap.

i'd certainly like to get your take on some things :)

thanks
matt
 

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T t tagging along:)

Appreciated your pm reply and figure there's more to be found
 

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Question: if you moved your mid bass to the kicks, what would be the value in crossing them and your mids at 200hz?

In my mind, the value of crossing that low is to take advantage of equal path lengths, as much as possible.

At this point, the real purpose of the mids is to cross them over befor your mid bass start to beam. Ideally, if the midbass didn't start to beam until 1600hz or so, your no longer dealing with ITD and the mids could be placed in the doors or at the widest possible location in the car, preferably, well away from reflective surfaces, like the windshield.

Just my .02
This two cents is worth more than 2 cents. However, putting the mids in the doors won't be abig issue as far as ITDs go, but he level difference between near side and far side will create a near side bias Inverse square law says 6dB for evey doubling or halving of distance. If you need a two-seat car and you don't have a center channel and appropriate processing, then put the mid somewhere with nearly equal pathlengths. If you don't need a 2-seat car, then put the mids and tweeters in the doors and adjust the level of the near side.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
This two cents is worth more than 2 cents. However, putting the mids in the doors won't be abig issue as far as ITDs go, but he level difference between near side and far side will create a near side bias Inverse square law says 6dB for evey doubling or halving of distance. If you need a two-seat car and you don't have a center channel and appropriate processing, then put the mid somewhere with nearly equal pathlengths. If you don't need a 2-seat car, then put the mids and tweeters in the doors and adjust the level of the near side.
thank you... this is exactly why i was thinking about mids and midbasses in the kicks to maximize and minimize plds between the two sides. i have the ability to have a pretty darn good two seat car, just want to make sure it will all work before i start tearing it apart
 

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I'm going to tag along as well if you don't mind. This might be my next car, and I'm considering midbass in the kicks instead of woofers under the seat. (Heck, might even consider moving from the doors to the kicks in my current car). Very interested to see how you will execute getting the Scans in the kicks
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I'm going to tag along as well if you don't mind. This might be my next car, and I'm considering midbass in the kicks instead of woofers under the seat. (Heck, might even consider moving from the doors to the kicks in my current car). Very interested to see how you will execute getting the Scans in the kicks
well, there isn't much to report, other than the suggestion to the get the midranges in the pillars... i simply don't have the realestate for that.

i'll post up some thoughts when i start poking around, doing some measuring/testing, etc....

i started to do that with this last install, did what i thought was "enough" and here I am starting all over again. i'm going to do it right this time, no questions about it.
 

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Midass freqs helps with depth and as long as your midrange isn't obstructed, you'll be fine.
Why not try to put your 18WU up against the (I think it's called) firewall:


Kelvin
 

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Discussion Starter #15
for those of you that are tagging along, i'm not going to talk much about what i'm planning, but it would be beneficial to rehash a particular discussion that, one that offers a bit of value to those that are planning installs

if you haven't read it, do it. if you have read it, read it again.

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...64-kickpanel-speaker-locations-pros-cons.html

Now, let's start by talking about this comment:
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/89831-post71.html

In the creation of a two seat car, it's better to have the mids aimed at one point, like a dome light, or firing off axis in the footwells? which is it?
 

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for those of you that are tagging along, i'm not going to talk much about what i'm planning, but it would be beneficial to rehash a particular discussion that, one that offers a bit of value to those that are planning installs

if you haven't read it, do it. if you have read it, read it again.

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...64-kickpanel-speaker-locations-pros-cons.html

Now, let's start by talking about this comment:
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/89831-post71.html

In the creation of a two seat car, it's better to have the mids aimed at one point, like a dome light, or firing off axis in the footwells? which is it?
Without going technical, if you go 2 seat car, there's no science that will help you decide which way to go.
Putting vehicle acoustic to the side first, it will depends on the driver's off-axis abilities AND freq response. Some drivers have a peak on-axis which helps when you position them off-axis - others are just flat on-axis but can do very well off-axis (just can't be crossed as high as the first one)...

I may be wrong on this and I'm sure it's not what you wanna hear but I feel that you need to put your drivers in with a towel and listen for a week then move them around a bit and listen again for a week :D
I've seen people firing straight across, aimed at the dome light, aimed at the back of the HU, no right answer really...

Kelvin
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Without going technical, if you go 2 seat car, there's no science that will help you decide which way to go.
Putting vehicle acoustic to the side first, it will depends on the driver's off-axis abilities AND freq response. Some drivers have a peak on-axis which helps when you position them off-axis - others are just flat on-axis but can do very well off-axis (just can't be crossed as high as the first one)...

I may be wrong on this and I'm sure it's not what you wanna hear but I feel that you need to put your drivers in with a towel and listen for a week then move them around a bit and listen again for a week :D
I've seen people firing straight across, aimed at the dome light, aimed at the back of the HU, no right answer really...

Kelvin
the suggestion you make is one that i'm already preparing to do... from the science side of things i was just trying to find out what npdang was referencing as far as the "point". It was somewhat ellusive to me.

One more question... if you have the mid and midbass in the kick panels, and you have the speakers arranged so that one is closer to the firewall than the other (let's say the midrange in this case), will the soundwaves it produces be affected by the soundwaves that the midbass is producing when they intersect?
 

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the suggestion you make is one that i'm already preparing to do... from the science side of things i was just trying to find out what npdang was referencing as far as the "point". It was somewhat ellusive to me. If I remember correctly, NPdang loves on-axis (or less than 30° off). Having one on-axis and the other one off-axis is what he doesn't like even if it helps equalize intensity differences from the near side driver. I think what he meant by that is that it's either on-axis for both drivers (very hard to do) or off-axis for both drivers (not aimed at the opposite headrest)

One more question... if you have the mid and midbass in the kick panels, and you have the speakers arranged so that one is closer to the firewall than the other (let's say the midrange in this case), will the soundwaves it produces be affected by the soundwaves that the midbass is producing when they intersect?
YES and NO

YES coz midbass freqs running into midrange freqs will create all kinds of phase anomalies but I'm sure you already know that :D
I understand your question and it's NO, if your drivers are in phase, midrange freq won't be destroyed by midbass freqs...

Putting drivers in the kick panels would require some kind of under dash panel absorber coz you're gonna have all kinds of reflections there (under dahs cover trim and center console)

Kelvin
 

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Discussion Starter #19
okay, reviving this for a dumb question...
(I will test this out before moving forward, but can't yet, so just wondering your opinions)

if you had the ability to choose between having the midbass closer to the firewall, and the midrange closer to listener, or vice versa, which would you choose and why?
 

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Midbass further away...seems to anchor everything up front better. And you can make a better baffle for it that way.

Just my opinion.
 
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