DiyMobileAudio.com Car Stereo Forum banner

1 - 20 of 76 Posts

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,895 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
So I don't compete, but would like to soon. From little I've read about competitions and scores, I've learned that scores can mean very little when compared together. It seems this is due to the subjectiveness of the judges. Let's face it, every judge is different on different days and different from eachother. It's like comparing two different pieces of art and saying which is better.

Here's my idea (if it's not already practiced).

Why not create a pristine digital copy of a given recording, use that recording as the source material in a competition, and record the playback from the listening position (or several positions if you like). It probably wouldn't be hard to create software that would compare the recorded playback copy to the original copy and spit out a percentage of difference. Would this not create a completely unbiased scoring system and way of measuring accurate reproduction?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
490 Posts
What you refer to is what the "RTA" competition is based on! A known signal, picked up by a microphone at a given location, analyzed by a comparator program and scored!
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,895 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
What you refer to is what the "RTA" competition is based on! A known signal, picked up by a microphone at a given location, analyzed by a comparator program and scored!
It simply tests for a flat response though?

Why not combine it with music? Why not get rid of the subjectiveness period? That's the main thing that turns me (and many others I'm sure) off to SQ competition.
 

·
Mobile Audio SQ
Joined
·
3,369 Posts
It simply tests for a flat response though?

Why not combine it with music? Why not get rid of the subjectiveness period? That's the main thing that turns me (and many others I'm sure) off to SQ competition.
How would you propose we score staging, imaging and tonality? The MECA disk is the Chesky Ultimate Sampler. You can order a copy via the MECA website, it tells you exactly what the staging and imaging should soundalike in the car and figure out tonality based on your ear and a reference set of headphones.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,895 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Dunno, I really don't know that much about competing aside from things I've read.

I guess staging and imaging could be accomplished by the use of dual microphones. And if you can use a handheld electronic device to tune a guitar, I'm pretty sure an advanced microphone and software could detect proper tonality.

I'm not attacking the current competitive status quo. I'm just wondering why no one has devised a system that is more unbiased.


I understand my knowledge of how these competitions are conducted is limited so if you wanna educate me, I'm all ears.

Maybe I shoulda put this in the dumb questions forum?
 

·
Mobile Audio SQ
Joined
·
3,369 Posts
Not to be rude or an ass but until you get into a competition, see how it works and how it's judged there really isn't any more to discuss.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,895 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Not to be rude or an ass but until you get into a competition, see how it works and how it's judged there really isn't any more to discuss.
Thats fair. The only reason I started this thread was because I've seen alot of people who do compete complain about the results.

But maybe they are the ones with poor scores. :D
 

·
Mobile Audio SQ
Joined
·
3,369 Posts
Thats fair. The only reason I started this thread was because I've seen alot of people who do compete complain about the results.

But maybe they are the ones with poor scores. :D
Actually, I havent lately which is really nice. When they do thought its usual because they are hyper sensitive, thin skinned or don't take criticism well.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,895 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Actually, I havent lately which is really nice. When they do thought its usual because they are hyper sensitive, thin skinned or don't take criticism well.
I could understand though. Real quality systems aren't a dime a dozen and it takes months and even years, in some cases, to build and tune a competition level SQ set up. I'd probably be a bit sensitive too.
 

·
Mobile Audio SQ
Joined
·
3,369 Posts
I could understand though. Real quality systems aren't a dime a dozen and it takes months and even years, in some cases, to build and tune a competition level SQ set up. I'd probably be a bit sensitive too.
I guess, I dont seem to be easily offended and look to experienced judges to point me in the right direction so when they get into my car I can take what they tell me and put it to work. This generally results in higher scores better results.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,895 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
I guess, I dont seem to be easily offended and look to experienced judges to point me in the right direction so when they get into my car I can take what they tell me and put it to work. This generally results in higher scores better results.
I'll keep that in mind if I ever get into competition.

So you don't see that there could ever be a way to score an SQ sound system based on a set of concrete values and measurements as opposed to a personal perspective?
 

·
Mobile Audio SQ
Joined
·
3,369 Posts
I'll keep that in mind if I ever get into competition.

So you don't see that there could ever be a way to score an SQ sound system based on a set of concrete values and measurements as opposed to a personal perspective?
A good veteran judge doesn't use personal perspective and bias to judge a car, they use a solid, very high quality reference to base the judging on along with experience. Most of the time you find that when you go to a 3X show the judges (3 of them) are VERY close to each other across the board. That doesn't happen 100% of the time but MOST of the time it does.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,895 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
A good veteran judge doesn't use personal perspective and bias to judge a car, they use a solid, very high quality reference to base the judging on along with experience. Most of the time you find that when you go to a 3X show the judges (3 of them) are VERY close to each other across the board. That doesn't happen 100% of the time but MOST of the time it does.
That's a good indication.

Down here in LA USAC is the biggest organization and I've heard they are mostly SPL oriented. SQ rides are hard to come by period down here. The owners and employees of most the B&M shops I've been to don't even pursue SQ installs in their personal rides.

Kinda sucks cause I have no reference with which can set a standard for myself, cause I have nothing to listen to but my own ride.
 

·
Mobile Audio SQ
Joined
·
3,369 Posts
That's a good indication.

Down here in LA USAC is the biggest organization and I've heard they are mostly SPL oriented. SQ rides are hard to come by period down here. The owners and employees of most the B&M shops I've been to don't even pursue SQ installs in their personal rides.

Kinda sucks cause I have no reference with which can set a standard for myself, cause I have nothing to listen to but my own ride.

Contact the guys at LP, they are major supporters of MECA, are looking into doing several shows this season and maybe able to help in leading you in the right direction. I dont know where you live or how far you are from them but they are a good group of guys who I spoke with briefly at Finals in Nashville.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,895 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
Contact the guys at LP, they are major supporters of MECA, are looking into doing several shows this season and maybe able to help in leading you in the right direction. I dont know where you live or how far you are from them but they are a good group of guys who I spoke with briefly at Finals in Nashville.
LP? Livingston Parish? Lol
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
490 Posts
If you are serious about building a high end SQ system, even if you don't compete, I would recommend, if you don't already have on, investing in a good reference home audio system! That will be your reference! It doesn't have to cost a lot! Look on ebay! You can get a very nice pair of reference speakers,subwoofer, amplifier for less than you might think.
B&W DM 601 S2 Matched Speakers - Bowers and Wilkins Bookshelf Black | eBay

This is just a sample of what is available! Not saying B&W is the best or anything. But for say a $1000 investment in a medium quality reference home system, you will now have a bar to shoot for in your car audio system! You can also begin to train your ear to listen! A whole other subject for discussion. It will be well worth the investment in the long run. Again if you are serious about this venture IMHO this is where to start!
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,895 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
If you are serious about building a high end SQ system, even if you don't compete, I would recommend, if you don't already have on, investing in a good reference home audio system! That will be your reference! It doesn't have to cost a lot! Look on ebay! You can get a very nice pair of reference speakers,subwoofer, amplifier for less than you might think.
B&W DM 601 S2 Matched Speakers - Bowers and Wilkins Bookshelf Black | eBay

This is just a sample of what is available! Not saying B&W is the best or anything. But for say a $1000 investment in a medium quality reference home system, you will now have a bar to shoot for in your car audio system! You can also begin to train your ear to listen! A whole other subject for discussion. It will be well worth the investment in the long run. Again if you are serious about this venture IMHO this is where to start!
Why not a good set of reference earphones?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
490 Posts
Headphones IMHO do create the same "In front of you stage" , especially depth, that being in front of a set of calibrated monitors. They also lack the impact of a speaker system that is moving air against your whole body! There is some evaluations that could be made on headphones but you are not installing a headphone system in your car. Again IMHO there is no easy route to the end goal of a high end SQ system whether home or car.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,234 Posts
A good veteran judge doesn't use personal perspective and bias to judge a car, they use a solid, very high quality reference to base the judging on along with experience. Most of the time you find that when you go to a 3X show the judges (3 of them) are VERY close to each other across the board. That doesn't happen 100% of the time but MOST of the time it does.
Just curious and speaking of bias, is it a good idea to try and hide which brand(s) you're running from the judges? I've had people get in my car with their mind made up before I turn the system on due to the brand.
 

·
Mobile Audio SQ
Joined
·
3,369 Posts
The only thing you will see in my car is a head unit. I dont advertise brands but I would hope that judges wouldnt let that influence how they score a car.
 
1 - 20 of 76 Posts
Top