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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I went to the iasca event at ID today and asked (I forgot his name) him questions about shorting rings and he said essentially said that with an aluminum voice former tand a properly designed sub such that it was useless for a sub to have a shorting ring and he went on and talked about dan wiggins and how Dan believed that his xbl^2 technology was the perfect technology but that he only uses it in two of his speakers. So he argued against using the copper vs wiggins saying it was essential. So what's the deal? they also saidd that peerless subs won't go low enough to be loud. They compared the ID to the JLW6. Honestly my car sounded better that some guys with ID10's and arc audio 12's. They even commented on how well my bass sounded. I have these http://www.cardomain.com/item/ROCP212S8

Next question I asked was why were horns so expensive and he said that they were expensive to build becouse it takes a lot of QC. I asked him how they compared to ribbons and he said that Ribbons could not be done in cars and that he has tried it and it just doesn't work.

He was a nice guy and a very good sales man at that. It unusuak that a VP of a company will explain there products. I just would like to know what comment's do you have about this.
 

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Ribbons work very well in my car, as well as the Peerless XXLS... and I'm sure MANY others have had the same experience. In fact the XXLS has very strong low end, and I prefer the sound of ribbons to any other high frequency drivers.. and I have used them all.

A faraday ring does lower inductance modulation distortion, and is very helpful for subwoofers. As well as xlb^2, which has been shown in many drivers to significantly lower distortion and achieve a flatter bl curve. There's many many objective tests that have shown the worth of these technologies.

I also wouldn't knock anything Dan WIggins says. That guy has proven time and again he really knows his stuff!
 

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I'm not articulate nor try to be. So, I'll be blunt. If you try to pass second hand info along from a source, at least be specific and not be to vague. IMO, the guy tried to be helpful and you used that info as something to be argumentative agaisnt him and his company.

Anyway,
I do agree that horns are worth what they're asking for. Horn designs aren't made overnight and it requires trials and errors added to the mathametics and simulations involved to achieve how horns are today. Horns DO take a lot of guess work out of imaging a car. For the price, it might be worth it to some.
 

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sqkev said:
IMO, the guy tried to be helpful and you used that info as something to be argumentative agaisnt him and his company.

uhhhhh....what?
 

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man you must have a sweet box, or something as those RF punch speakers are rather burpy in the low end. They are very popular in my local, and they just sound very non musical IMO

what box are you running to them, and power?? Im curious as how you got them sound good?


and ribbons can be done in a car, in not sure what he was referring to?? they are just rather large, but man they sure make the soundstage wide!!!!!


but make sure you like it smooth:)
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
No i wasn't trying to be argumentative about what he was saying i just asked questions and he gave me his ideas about what i asked. I'm not the type of person that will just buy something because someone says buy it. I went there i auditioned cars with arc (almost everyone there ran arc amps) a lot had ID subs and some sounded good some didn't, I enjoyed a mr2 with ID stuff, and one with two 12in w6, the cars with seas sounded good the distributer for mobilesq was there. They heard my cheap set up and they said i have a nice sounding car, musc travels well.

The VP was a very knowledgeable guy I trust what he said is true to an extent. I would do business with ID just because of their reputation, and the VPs willingness to help me, he talked to me for about half an hour. I'm not downing the company, you misread, I'm just researching. I was considering either buying a xls or xxls or IDQ to replace the fosgates, just wanted to know which is better. Of course he'll say his stuff is comparable to this and that, it's his company. He was real cool and what I liked was the fact that a guy blew his woofer while tuning and he went inside and brought him a new one for free.
 

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I can't even count the amount of conversations I've had with matt and eric, and I think that they are great, knowledgable guys, but not perfect by any means. When I was first beginnning in car audio, they were some of the influences that got me started off on a very good foot.

I have installed more IDQ and ID series subs than I care to count, and I will say, the XLS10 I just installed gives them a major run for their money. If the XLS10 cant get as loud as an ID, why did I have to re-dampen my passenger door after switching from an ARC12 to the XLS10????? Keep in mind I already have 100ft^2 of dynamat xtreme in this vehicle. Four layers in each front door, plus carpet padding. That XLS brought out rattles I didn't even know I had. It plays LOW, trust me. I've already run it through the same test CD as I ran the ARC12 through. Numbers are nice, but they don't always apply....
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
It's a sealed box about 1cf and some filler in there nothing special. The guys said that it wasn't the box it was the way the car was shaped and the inside, I also have some dynomat. I have a rockford power 450s amp giving two RF subs 450 watts at 4 ohms. The w6's sounded better than mine. he had 1000watts and a jl amp. I wish i could of heard the horns this guy had but during the competition he blew one.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
If it was three years ago I would of bought everything he told me to buy right then and there, but i'm a little older now so i like to ask questions, and I'm almost done with my physics major stuff so I understand a little more of what was going on and what he was saying. IT really didn't make sense to me my argument to self was, that two drivers with everything the same (motor,cone,etc..) but one had a shorting ring (meaning lower inductance) why wouldn't it be better. He was a great guy, but to be great you have to take bit's and peaces here and there and innovate and come up with your own ideas.
 

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sqkev said:
I'm not articulate nor try to be. So, I'll be blunt. If you try to pass second hand info along from a source, at least be specific and not be to vague. IMO, the guy tried to be helpful and you used that info as something to be argumentative agaisnt him and his company.
What about if someone passes on [edit] information that's crap, like this guy's comments about Faraday rings? If the guy was a VP at ID, I'm going to go out on a limb and guess he was probably a marketing whiz rather than a card-carrying member of the AES with an MSEE or better degree who's organized a scores of rigorous subjective evaluations. That is to say, his words are meant primarily to sell his products, not to reflect the truth. If his products don't have something, he's going to say it doesn't need to be had and feed you a line that's at least somewhat convincing to the casual observer as to why that is so.

Moreover, the proof is in the listening. ID's subs are pretty good by car audio standards, and I know I'm not the only person here who's used a few. But that's a little bit like saying that [insert second grader's name of choice here] writes pretty well by second-grade standards. He may indeed write well for his age but no reader is going to confuse him for Jonathan Franzen.

Also, about Adire, whatever he thinks of the merits of XBL^2 he's just plain wrong on fact. I can think of several Adire LINES that use the XBL^2 motor, collectively encompassing far more than two products. And that, of course, is just the stuff they sell to hobbyists....
 

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I will admit that this isn't the first time I've heard one of them say something that was if not totally wrong, at least partially BS.

To expand on what DS-21 said about their subs, my view of ID subs has always been as a workhorse. In my experience they perform 75% well, 95% of the time. Other subs may perform better if tweaked in properly within their installation, and you surely can shell out more cash and get better subs than the ID drivers. The reason I have always liked them is because they are one of the only subs that you can just "drop in" and have sound pretty good almost every time. Not godlike, just always pretty good. IMO that is why they have done so well for so many years.

FYI, my favorite personally owned sub of all time was not an ID, and is not the XLS I currently own.
 

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newtitan said:
and ribbons can be done in a car,
( or can't be done ) needs to be defined more. Can or can't be done in what aspect of car audio? Competition? Daily driver??
 

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ws6 beat said:
It's a sealed box about 1cf and some filler in there nothing special. The guys said that it wasn't the box it was the way the car was shaped and the inside, I also have some dynomat. I have a rockford power 450s amp giving two RF subs 450 watts at 4 ohms. The w6's sounded better than mine. he had 1000watts and a jl amp. I wish i could of heard the horns this guy had but during the competition he blew one.

i have RF punch he2 8's in my car and i must say that they sound pretty good sealed as well, though i doubt my car is conducive to bass by any means.
 

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I think what he means to say is they can be used like any other conventional or hlcd driver with success. Alot of the arguments against ribbons in the car have really no merit in light of the fact that there are many people out there that use them and are very happy with the results, and haven't had any of the problems that some people are claiming exist.
 

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daitrong said:
( or can't be done ) needs to be defined more. Can or can't be done in what aspect of car audio? Competition? Daily driver??

in car solutions-my daily driver opinions ( I dont compete)

positives

1) They are waay better at creating a wider soundstage than any tweet Ive heard to date--this was the BEST aspect for my ears
2) their ability to cross so low really opens up the midrange driver possibilities--for example my only concern so far with the seas W excel drivers and using them, the 2khz cross up high, with ribbons thats a easy fix
3)they need very little power to perform admirably, but can also take a ton of power, mine were getting 50W and to me they seemed like they were not even working hard at full tilt off a 8454


negatives
1) they have to be aimed directly on axis for best performamce (sometime not the easiest detail ina a car
2) extrmely deep,and huge face lol
3)not really a neg but a observation, they are the smoothest tweet Ive heard so far, but that has to be what YOUR ears favor

so IMO yes it can be done with a little time, and tuning
 

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ws6 beat said:
I went to the iasca event at ID today and asked (I forgot his name) him questions about shorting rings and he said essentially said that with an aluminum voice former tand a properly designed sub such that it was useless for a sub to have a shorting ring and he went on and talked about dan wiggins and how Dan believed that his xbl^2 technology was the perfect technology but that he only uses it in two of his speakers. So he argued against using the copper vs wiggins saying it was essential. So what's the deal? they also saidd that peerless subs won't go low enough to be loud. They compared the ID to the JLW6. Honestly my car sounded better that some guys with ID10's and arc audio 12's. They even commented on how well my bass sounded. I have these http://www.cardomain.com/item/ROCP212S8

Next question I asked was why were horns so expensive and he said that they were expensive to build becouse it takes a lot of QC. I asked him how they compared to ribbons and he said that Ribbons could not be done in cars and that he has tried it and it just doesn't work.

He was a nice guy and a very good sales man at that. It unusuak that a VP of a company will explain there products. I just would like to know what comment's do you have about this.
If that's Matt you are talking about, he isn't the VP :D
The VP was at home with his 3 month old son...
 

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My favorite personal sub of all time was a Diamond Audio M5 12" running off of a zapco ref750. The only thing I could describe the tone as would be "piano like", in a sealed enclosure. My only complaint about it was that it was very power hungry; it was being fed by that ref750 I used to own and still seemed to whine for more power occasionally. I've heard that about diamond subs, and found it true in my own experience as well.

When it hit a low note, say 35hz, you could literally feel the air rush past your face, it also stayed fairly well behaved on higher notes of 60-90hz... it never got muddy or barky. It just seemed to have really good control of what it was doing. Out of the probably 30 subs that I've owned, this was one of the only ones that sounded more like a musical instrument than a loudspeaker, and that is hard to do for a sub or any driver for that matter. I've been a bass guitar player for well over ten years and if there is one thing I know and like, it's good clean bass.

Take what I say with a grain of salt though, because when I moved the sub to a new vehicle it sounded more average. Still good, but nothing to write home about. It was just one of those cases where install met speaker and magic happened. I have since moved on to other things :)
 
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