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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Tang Band 28-1177SB 1" Textile Dome Tweeter: Madisound Speaker Store

or

Dayton Audio DC28FT-8 1-1/8" Silk Dome Truncated Tweeter 275-076

or

Morel MDT 12 1-1/8" Neodymium Tweeter 277-060

will be played down to 2khz, 2nd order passive (hpf at 275hz for the mid if that makes a difference; quasi active 3 way front stage)
mids will probably be Dayton RS150s (unless someone has a better suggestion within that price range on a 8 ohm mid from 275hz to 2khz)
Oh and 50-60 rms goin to the passive xover split to the mid n tweet
 

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Dayton RS is Dayton's "reference" line. Dayton DC is Dayton Classic line. The RS line is much better than DC as you can see from reviews below:

Tweeter reviews:

Zaph|Audio

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/member-reviews-product-comparisons/9-rainbow-seas-lpg-max-fi-usher-scan-speak-morel-tweeter-review.html

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/member-reviews-product-comparisons/7256-diyma-tweeter-reviews-more.html

Woofers:

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/member-reviews-product-comparisons/9237-subjective-comparison-popular-7-drivers.html

Zaph|Audio

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/1296059-post175.html
One tweeter that may work for you is Seas Neo tweeter (mentioned above). There is aluminum and textile version 4ohm. It can be crossed very low with very good upper end response and it can fit in most stock locations.

Not quite sure what your goals are, but one rule of thumb is if your crossover between tweeter and mid is set so low, it's best for imaging if you can place the tweeter and mid next to each other. If they are far apart, it's better for crossover to be higher and for the tweeter cover frequencies above midrange. Most people who install 3-way systems use little mid range drivers, like 3-4 inches in diameter, and those have no problem covering the entire midrange and more, and due to size can be placed in A-pilars or high in a door panel. In terms of large woofers, one that can reportedly play pretty high in FR is the silver flute wool cone driver. There are several versions with different diameters and impedance. It seems like these are somewhat popular in 2-way setup with frequency response being decent in each direction.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Dayton RS is Dayton's "reference" line. Dayton DC is Dayton Classic line. The RS line is much better than DC as you can see from reviews below:

Tweeter reviews:

Zaph|Audio

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/member-reviews-product-comparisons/9-rainbow-seas-lpg-max-fi-usher-scan-speak-morel-tweeter-review.html

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/member-reviews-product-comparisons/7256-diyma-tweeter-reviews-more.html

Woofers:

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/member-reviews-product-comparisons/9237-subjective-comparison-popular-7-drivers.html

Zaph|Audio

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/1296059-post175.html
One tweeter that may work for you is Seas Neo tweeter (mentioned above). There is aluminum and textile version 4ohm. It can be crossed very low with very good upper end response and it can fit in most stock locations.

Not quite sure what your goals are, but one rule of thumb is if your crossover between tweeter and mid is set so low, it's best for imaging if you can place the tweeter and mid next to each other. If they are far apart, it's better for crossover to be higher and for the tweeter cover frequencies above midrange. Most people who install 3-way systems use little mid range drivers, like 3-4 inches in diameter, and those have no problem covering the entire midrange and more, and due to size can be placed in A-pilars or high in a door panel. In terms of large woofers, one that can reportedly play pretty high in FR is the silver flute wool cone driver. There are several versions with different diameters and impedance. It seems like these are somewhat popular in 2-way setup with frequency response being decent in each direction.
i thought it was the other way around. anywhooo, my mid will be in my door or kicks for now until I can convince myself to go cutting my car up lol both places are cutout for 6.5s.
I chose the lower xvoer point to prevent beaming so that I could put my mid low and my tweet high without any issues.
 

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i thought it was the other way around. anywhooo, my mid will be in my door or kicks for now until I can convince myself to go cutting my car up lol both places are cutout for 6.5s.
I chose the lower xvoer point to prevent beaming so that I could put my mid low and my tweet high without any issues.
You are right in the sense that there is probably some kind of trade off involved here between non-flat frequency response (due to beaming with higher crossover point with mid drivers installed off axis) vs unstable image due to tweeter playing so low. I personally would take the more stable image and try to correct the frequency response with equalization. Next, beaming does not start as low as 2KHz.. Here is a table that gives some rough frequency numbers:

frequency tables

For example, for 6.5 inch cone, they list 2672Hz. But it's not like there will 0dB frequency response above 2672Hz. It more like a gradual roll off, with the driver that's opposite to you usually suffering less since it's more on axis. A little boost at 4KHz will probably help here too. Some drivers can also supposedly push it up higher in frequency by using a phase plug.

All these considerations are kind of relevant if you're building a 2-way front stage, but it baffles me that you try to build a 3-way front stage around a large mid, and so you have to deal with all of these issues as if you were using a 2-way front stage. The only thing that your setup seems to have on a typical 2-way setup is that you might have more bass if you use a good mid-bass driver, and even that is not clear. I suppose that it's conceivable that there exist excellent 6-7 midbass drivers that still play up to 2KHz, making 3-way setup unnecessary.

However, if you use a small mid, you can have the best of both worlds. Good imaging and good frequency response, even a little off axis. Had you used a smaller mid like 3 or 4 inches, it would extend very high into frequency response without beaming, and now you could have a single driver that acts as a point source for the entire mid range, with the bass drivers strictly restricted to bass frequencies, and the tweeter strictly for treble. This is probably not hard to do, since the goal is to mount a smaller driver in a 6 inch hole. That's probably what I would try.. Just a thought, good luck
 

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Discussion Starter #5
You are right in the sense that there is probably some kind of trade off involved here between non-flat frequency response (due to beaming with higher crossover point with mid drivers installed off axis) vs unstable image due to tweeter playing so low. I personally would take the more stable image and try to correct the frequency response with equalization. Next, beaming does not start as low as 2KHz.. Here is a table that gives some rough frequency numbers:

frequency tables

For example, for 6.5 inch cone, they list 2672Hz. But it's not like there will 0dB frequency response above 2672Hz. It more like a gradual roll off, with the driver that's opposite to you usually suffering less since it's more on axis. A little boost at 4KHz will probably help here too. Some drivers can also supposedly push it up higher in frequency by using a phase plug.

All these considerations are kind of relevant if you're building a 2-way front stage, but it baffles me that you try to build a 3-way front stage around a large mid, and so you have to deal with all of these issues as if you were using a 2-way front stage. The only thing that your setup seems to have on a typical 2-way setup is that you might have more bass if you use a good mid-bass driver, and even that is not clear. I suppose that it's conceivable that there exist excellent 6-7 midbass drivers that still play up to 2KHz, making 3-way setup unnecessary.

However, if you use a small mid, you can have the best of both worlds. Good imaging and good frequency response, even a little off axis. Had you used a smaller mid like 3 or 4 inches, it would extend very high into frequency response without beaming, and now you could have a single driver that acts as a point source for the entire mid range, with the bass drivers strictly restricted to bass frequencies, and the tweeter strictly for treble. This is probably not hard to do, since the goal is to mount a smaller driver in a 6 inch hole. That's probably what I would try.. Just a thought, good luck
good point. i initially started off with a high xover point but was told that lower xover point was better since my midrange would be in my door. But what youre saying makes sense. A smaller driver to prevent beaming would be fine. but my main issue was getting good imaging, staging etc with all of the mids coming from down low and only my higher frequencies up high. A low stage if anything, dont ya think? or would the high tweet combat this? im still learning so im open to all suggestions ..... except cutting my car for now atleast
 

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A lot of people are claiming that it's enough to have tweeters mounted somewhere high to maintain a good stage height, while its not necessary to have them play down to 2KHz because at those frequencies our ears are not very good at identifying the source being up or high.

In any case, when I might chime in on this issue once I finish installing my HAT Imagine speakers. They are installed as components in passive mode, but I plan to switch into active soon. Their tweeter's -12dB point, as implied by its first order crossover settings, is at around 4KHz. This is something you could accomplish with a second order high pass crossover setting applied at 8KHz or a 3rd order high pass applied at around 6KHz. This is actually how people cross them when going fully active. Yet I can't say right now that my sound stage is low even though my the mid is way low in the door. I am not 100% certain in this because I suspect that tweeters are playing a little louder than they need to due to their sensitivity in passive setup. I suspect that they play mid range frequencies a little louder than what's suggested by the -12dB point with stock crossover settings. However, I still doubt the stage height will drop if the tweeters are toned down by about say 3-5dB.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
A lot of people are claiming that it's enough to have tweeters mounted somewhere high to maintain a good stage height, while its not necessary to have them play down to 2KHz because at those frequencies our ears are not very good at identifying the source being up or high.

In any case, when I might chime in on this issue once I finish installing my HAT Imagine speakers. They are installed as components in passive mode, but I plan to switch into active soon. Their tweeter's -12dB point, as implied by its first order crossover settings, is at around 4KHz. This is something you could accomplish with a second order high pass crossover setting applied at 8KHz or a 3rd order high pass applied at around 6KHz. This is actually how people cross them when going fully active. Yet I can't say right now that my sound stage is low even though my the mid is way low in the door. I am not 100% certain in this because I suspect that tweeters are playing a little louder than they need to due to their sensitivity in passive setup. I suspect that they play mid range frequencies a little louder than what's suggested by the -12dB point with stock crossover settings. However, I still doubt the stage height will drop if the tweeters are toned down by about say 3-5dB.
i was just thinking of the HAT Imagines as i looked over that chart you provided and did more research on the range of the human voice. I'm thinking I want to do either a 3.5k or 4k xover point. sound ok? and if so what mid would you recommend? also what tweeter? i like the Dayton ref full range drivers. Im pretty sure they can play that high no problem. anything else to look into?
 

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Discussion Starter #8
also should i look moreso into 1/2 tweets then since i will have a higher xo point and a half inch tweet wont beam....
 

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I have no experience with these things.. but looking at the table, it does seem like a 3 inch mid range can play up to at least 5KHz without beaming, and 4 inch mid can play to over 4KHz without beaming. I guess those would be good frequencies to apply the low pass part of the band pass filter at. In the later case, depending on the filter order, the -6dB point, where the mid meets tweeter, can be at around 5KHz, so a 5KHz passive could work. The 4 inch mid may have the advantage of extending deeper into the lower frequencies to meet your midbass.

Some midrange reviews here, probably old,
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/member-reviews-product-comparisons/66-lpg-vifa-aura-midrange-reviews.html
 

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Discussion Starter #10
read more reviews online and now im stuck between the dayton RS125 (which apparently outperforms the RS100 4incher) and the Peerless HDS Exclusive 4"
 
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