[Lanson]

I have been narrowing my amp selection down for my next personal build, and I'd liked some input on something that caught my eye.

The PG Xenon amps look handsome as hell (if not a bit big), but I'm unfamiliar with them and would like to learn about them a bit. I saw a 100.4 and a 600.1 that would serve me. My PPI 300.4 and 500.1 are going to my bro-in-law's build for a fair price, so I get to start over.

Before I saw the PG's, I was set on the Kenwood eXcelon X1200M and X600F models, since they are $232 each at dpcauto. The PG's play into this price range perfectly, but I'd be giving up roughly 1/2 my subwoofer power (not a big deal, 3dB of headroom is "meh.")

So, what are they like?>

 

[capnxtreme]

Never heard anything bad about them, other than maybe that they work better with strong input signals.

 

[Hillbilly SQ]

Reliable and plenty of power. All of the x600.1's bench at over 800rms. Only issue is they need plenty of preout voltage so unless you have something with insanely high preout voltage I'd snag a pg tld66 off fleabay to feed them.

 

[Lanson]

Would an RF3sixty.2 send the right pre-out signal? They say it'll do 5V RMS.

 

[Jtejedor]

Yeah they are pretty good quality wise. As already mentioned though they do need a lot of voltage to really get going. I think I remember someone at the PG forum saying something like 9 volts would be ideal. I can tell you that this is true. I was using a xenon 200.2 for a while and it broke so I switched it out with an amp that put out 90 watts a channel and it got way louder and I did not have to turn the gain up much. I had to crank the gains on the 200.2 to get the same output.

 

[gijoe]

My 600.1 is great! Mine benched at 850 watts. I think they are hard to beat. I'm running it on 2 IDQ 10's IB, so my gains are set really low. Even in a sealed box I never felt the need to increase the input voltage.

I wouldn't hesitate to buy another one. If I ever need to buy another sub amp, I'll definitely look at another Xenon. Mine has provided me with more than enough power, and never gets hot, even after long, loud sessions it's only been slightly warm. The insides look well built (although I have only disassembled a handful of amps and don't know a lot about the construction) and the ability to get rated power from 1-4 ohms is a big bonus.

So my un-expert opinion is that they will do everything they are supposed to do and I can guess that they will do it for a long time.

 

[Lanson]

So, assuming I can drive a decent signal to them, they'd be a step up from the eXcelon units? Would you consider them on-par with my PPI's, or a step up as well?

Lastly, do they all have fan cooling?

 

[dual700]

Lastly, do they all have fan cooling?

Phoenix Gold Xenon X200.4

Phoenix Gold Xenon X600.1

 

[Lanson]

Yay! I wonder if I could slap a Scythe fan in there. Looks like a normal computer fan to me. Hmmm... Or some lighty-up Antec fans. J/k....maybe.

Well, that means I can stealth them in the false floor that I'll need to rebuild a little bit, but they should work. I've always liked the their look, but have feared them because PG fell off the quality-wagon (Ryval, anybody?) These must be the last of the goodies. How are those ugly Sd amps?

 

[Hillbilly SQ]

Honestly, I think the xenons are ugly as sin. Good thing I don't have to ever see them

Even with the 5 volts rms the 3sixty will be putting out I'd still get a tld66 or tru ssld6 linedriver. The tld66 is solid for the price but hear too many good things about the tru to pass up if you have the money.

 

[Lanson]

Assuming the money is the same, do you go with this:

Or this:

 

[Hillbilly SQ]

Based on which amp I'd trust to be installed and forgotten about for several years I'd do the xenon. Just be sure to spend around $60 shipped more for a tld66.

On the flipside the Kenwood might be the better amp as far as internals go but we don't know that yet.

 

[Lanson]

The X600F and X1200M are essentially the X4R and X1R without the pretty DSP stuff (don't need it!)

Of course people like them, but I'm with you, I like looking at the guts.

 

[circa40]

The Xenon series were very good amps...probably the last good amp that PG is ever going to make IMO

 

[[email protected]]

I have always stayed away from kenwood stuff, just was never happy with any of it back in the day, dont know about current stuff.

If it was me I would do the PG with the line driver

 

[[email protected]]

I have always stayed away from kenwood stuff, just was never happy with any of it back in the day, dont know about current stuff.

If it was me I would do the PG with the line driver

 

[Lanson]

I have always stayed away from kenwood stuff, just was never happy with any of it back in the day, dont know about current stuff.

If it was me I would do the PG with the line driver

Kenwood has never been a bad brand for me, especially eXcelon. Think about all the good head units they've come up with, and that's probably one of the hardest things to make right, IMO.

Duly noted on the opinion though, and also I'm glad you told me about the line driver, and I will take it into account in my decision.

Currently, the Kenwoods are ahead, and I'll tell you why: 1. they are ever so slightly cheaper 2. They are smaller, and by a LOT. 3. They are more powerful 4. It would be nice to subtly prove people wrong about the stigma of a brand.

I am open to other suggestions, of course. In case you were wondering, the $225-250 EACH range ($500 total) is pretty fair to me.

 

[AndyInOC]

Kenwood power ratings are normally ISBL rated, they dont make the power they claim

 

[dual700]

Kenwood has never been a bad brand for me, especially eXcelon. Think about all the good head units they've come up with, and that's probably one of the hardest things to make right, IMO.

Duly noted on the opinion though, and also I'm glad you told me about the line driver, and I will take it into account in my decision.

Currently, the Kenwoods are ahead, and I'll tell you why: 1. they are ever so slightly cheaper 2. They are smaller, and by a LOT. 3. They are more powerful 4. It would be nice to subtly prove people wrong about the stigma of a brand.

I am open to other suggestions, of course. In case you were wondering, the $225-250 EACH range ($500 total) is pretty fair to me.

Why not use the Massive you bought from me?

 

[Lanson]

Kenwood power ratings are normally ISBL rated, they dont make the power they claim

Now, I'm going to take a moment, and first say that I don't want to be a defender of a particular brand nor a fan boi, but I do want to correct something here.

Are you familiar with CEA ratings? The goal with them was to equalize the playing field with amps and to keep the "WLS" ratings to a minimum. Now, CEA ratings are:

Rated using using 14.4 volts
RMS watts are measured into a 4-ohm impedance load at 1 percent Total Harmonic Distortion (THD) plus noise, at a frequency range (for general purpose amplifiers) of 20 Hz to 20,000 Hz.
Signal-to-Noise ratio is measured in weighted absolute decibels (dBA) at a reference of 1 watt into 4 ohms.

Now, the Kenwood X1200M has a CEA rating of:
800WRMS x 1 @ 4ohm, 75dBA absolute S/N

And the Kenwood X600F has a CEA rating of:
100WRMS x 4 @ 4ohm, 85dBa absolute S/N

They produce more than that, according the tests done so far by others I've read (and I'm speaking about the old amps that these new ones are built on.)

Now, comparing the PG Xenon 100.4 for a second, it DID NOT EVEN MEET its own ratings when fully loaded, but it will do it if you rate it at CEA standards.
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The reason I bother to say this is to simply suggest that one should not judge an amp (or other product) by the stigma of its brand, especially an undeserved stigma.