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Discussion Starter #1
I know there are a lot of different trains of thought pertaining to car audio. But the two primary camps are SPL and SQ. I'm kind of in between, maybe leaning towards SPL myself, but that's a whole other thing.
So I was over on another audio forum, and their is a straight up SQ guy, who makes a lot of negative insinuations about anything to do with SPL. Like if your not an SQ guy, your stupid, childish, etc.

Hmmm. I dunno.... I don't feel that way about SQ guys, even if I lean towards SPL.

Kind of reminds me of fly fisherman who act like, if you really want to be considered a real fisherman, you have to fly fish... Really ? Well I have no problem with fly fisherman, and consider them to be no more, or no less a fisherman than I am. But not all fly fishermen feel the same the same about general fishermen.

Hmmm.
 

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Well..."real" SPL doesn't even use music, so an SQ fan, who got into it so that they could enjoy their music even more, wouldn't really understand the point of just making noise.

I don't know. Just like your fisherman analogy, that's how people are, they think that whatever they chose must be the correct way. People have a tendency to think in binary, and create a competition where there isn't one.
 

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Most pure SQ types likely have more budget, and also have more things to be concerned about than SPL numbers... so it is not surprising to have them look down the nose at SPL.

Given that many people like subwoofers with distortion, so of reinforces the divide, and the concept of in group out group mentality seems to be pervasive from politics to audio.
So social signaling is a possible reason.

You seem to be headed into the blend of SQ and SPL. And my perception is tha you are headed from SPL --> SQ. I think I more on the SQ --> SPL trajectory.
An SQ system that can do SPL is not bad, and we are likely to meet in the middle.

I suspect that the person you are referring to make not even be able to intimate the reason he does it.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
TY guys. Holmz yes, you are exactly right. As it stands, I'm making a LOT of sound in the truck.
So now, I really just want to dial it all in, and clean it up. With a DSP. A new 4 ch amp. An upgraded alternator, and a few extra batteries plus maybe a few caps... Or a little lithium... Haven't decided.
I mean, I could see spending another $2k on it, without adding any more speakers, or any more power.

So yes, I am headed a little more towards SQ, but will never be a hardcore SQ guy (even if I could afford it). Nor can I afford to compete with the hard core SPL guys.

But anyway, I respect anybody who really goes all out, on either side of that camp, and puts in the time and $$$ to create something special. It doesn't have to be exactly what I'd build, for me to appreciate it.
 

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One reason I suppose I don't fall with the SPL crowd is that every SQ build I've done has gotten more than loud enough for any listening I would ever want to do. You can design a great SQ system, and not have to compromise anything to still reach uncomfortable listening levels. There's a weird misconception that SQ builds don't get loud. I don't understand builds that shoot for higher SPL than a person in the car can stand, except pure SPL builds intended to be metered at dB drag races, and other competitions like that, and that's a different hobby altogether.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
One reason I suppose I don't fall with the SPL crowd is that every SQ build I've done has gotten more than loud enough for any listening I would ever want to do. You can design a great SQ system, and not have to compromise anything to still reach uncomfortable listening levels. There's a weird misconception that SQ builds don't get loud. I don't understand builds that shoot for higher SPL than a person in the car can stand, except pure SPL builds intended to be metered at dB drag races, and other competitions like that, and that's a different hobby altogether.
TY Gijoe. Loudness is very subjective, and hard to really get a good reference of.... unless we were all running around with a term lab hooked up and could say, "well I usually prefer about xxx Db's" :) I often do a lot of my stereo listening in my truck, by myself. And I think a lot of the time, I don't realize how loud it really is. But then sometimes when I have my GF with me, I will be playing it lower than normal, go to say something to her, and can barely hear myself talking, nor can I hear her at all !

I've learned some things lately about "actual db's" in a vehicle... and that most systems really don't model a lot louder than 120-125 db's > except for cabin gain, which might boost a lot of moderately upgraded systems (like mine) to 130-140. That said, I think I often listen to my music in the 130 db range. Loud, for sure, but not competition loud. So then on the SQ end of it, I just don't want clipping, or any crazy peaks or dips, or harshness. As for the sound stage.... ehhh... Not too worried about it. Even if I'm at a concert, what if I'm standing facing to the right. Its still not going to sound like its coming straight at me :) lol Oh, and of course, rattles suck, but everybody deals with them. To be quite honest, my GF and I go to a lot of concerts, and most of the time, I feel like my system is louder and cleaner. Has a lot to do with your seating position at the concert of course.
 

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TY Gijoe. Loudness is very subjective, and hard to really get a good reference of.... unless we were all running around with a term lab hooked up and could say, "well I usually prefer about xxx Db's" :)
...
Those handheld dB meters are cheap.
You do it about 5 times in a few different vehicle and home and you find that numbers are all similar.


...
...a lot of moderately upgraded systems (like mine) to 130-140.
...
Turn off the sub and measure dB(A). (Or set it in dB(C) for the including the sub)

I usually use dB(A) as that is where all the vocals and music is at, and every car without a sub measures typically around 90 dB at a decent level... which is where many speakers are rated at in sensitivity (dB/w/m)...


...
To be quite honest, my GF and I go to a lot of concerts, and most of the time, I feel like my system is louder and cleaner. Has a lot to do with your seating position at the concert of course.
Probably so, but I recall a lot of concerts that left my ears ringing for hours and wooley-headed for days.
 

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Most pure SQ types likely have more budget, and also have more things to be concerned about than SPL numbers... so it is not surprising to have them look down the nose at SPL.

Given that many people like subwoofers with distortion, so of reinforces the divide, and the concept of in group out group mentality seems to be pervasive from politics to audio.
So social signaling is a possible reason.

You seem to be headed into the blend of SQ and SPL. And my perception is tha you are headed from SPL --> SQ. I think I more on the SQ --> SPL trajectory.
An SQ system that can do SPL is not bad, and we are likely to meet in the middle.

I suspect that the person you are referring to make not even be able to intimate the reason he does it.
In my limited experience with competitive car audio it seems like spl systems are monumentally more complex and expensive.

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using Tapatalk
 

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Discussion Starter #9
In my limited experience with competitive car audio it seems like spl systems are monumentally more complex and expensive.

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using Tapatalk
I think it depends. If it's a DIY thing, concrete is cheap 😀 lol

Setup correctly, systems can be make stupid loud burps with a single subwoofer, on moderate power. The key is mostly "trapping" all of that sound. A 1" thick windshield, and the whole cab being surrounded by concrete really helps.

So you take a setup like this^ and compare it to somebody using mids/highs costing $2500, and on and on, I'm not sure SPL is always a lot more expensive.

BOTH can be really expensive. But a person can play around with either of these, for a lot less. This stuff works on a curve, so a person might do relatively well with SPL or with SQ, for a lot less money, than like a national champion.
Those guys might spend 10 X's as much, to be a tiny bit better.
 

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In my limited experience with competitive car audio it seems like spl systems are monumentally more complex and expensive.
YeH, it is the demographic I was referring to, and the home systems that some of those people have.
 

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So yes, I am headed a little more towards SQ, but will never be a hardcore SQ guy (even if I could afford it). Nor can I afford to compete with the hard core SPL guys.

I think your missing the point. The Hobby is suppose to be fun. Where people get together, and DO fun stuff.
That's why they have classes etc.

S.Q. Or SPL is just Physics Nerds having a good time and coming up with a Good Excuse to do it. The competition portions is just the Excuse we need to get away with it.

It solves No World Problems.
Its only health benefit is Endorphins and maybe some Exorcise.
Its only reason to exist... Is to Exist for the Damn Hell of it.
The Sole reason is? Cuz its fun.

If you have a dream to win the SPL world Finals? I already came up with a way to do it EVERY SINGLE TIME by the rule book. Even with High Fidelity without using a Voice coil of any kind. You need some Liquid Helium, but other then that, its actually quite simple. But what the fun in that?

Sound Quality is indeed subjective. In fact, its the most difficult of the two to reproduce. But if it was a real goal? Then why do we have Speakers instead of Performers if that WAS the ultimate goal? Seems stupid. But its a valid question? Why chase the Synthetic, when you can have the real thing?


Why Watch dancers when you can Dance? Or Why listen to Music when you can play it? I play my guitar every once in a while. But I don't do it anymore. It sits there with a layer of dust. Nothing comes close to how it sounds with the stings being plucked and strummed right in front me. The vibrations of the guitar are right there in my soul. I feel it like i'm on a wing of an airplane cutting through the air. Feeling the zing! of the cold night air, and I take in one more drag and Hit the Strings, one more time.

There is no substitution.
I am my own artist. ;
I am my own Critic.
I am the music maker. ;
I am the painter of this sound melody.

I can sing all I want.
Its never coming back.
All that is left is this guitar as it Waves ; ....fades into the night.


The only Rule book I follow, is my own.
 

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I think your missing the point. The Hobby is suppose to be fun. Where people get together, and DO fun stuff.
That's why they have classes etc.

S.Q. Or SPL is just Physics Nerds having a good time and coming up with a Good Excuse to do it. The competition portions is just the Excuse we need to get away with it.

It solves No World Problems.
Its only health benefit is Endorphins and maybe some Exorcise.
Its only reason to exist... Is to Exist for the Damn Hell of it.
The Sole reason is? Cuz its fun.

If you have a dream to win the SPL world Finals? I already came up with a way to do it EVERY SINGLE TIME by the rule book. Even with High Fidelity without using a Voice coil of any kind. You need some Liquid Helium, but other then that, its actually quite simple. But what the fun in that?

Sound Quality is indeed subjective. In fact, its the most difficult of the two to reproduce. But if it was a real goal? Then why do we have Speakers instead of Performers if that WAS the ultimate goal? Seems stupid. But its a valid question? Why chase the Synthetic, when you can have the real thing?


Why Watch dancers when you can Dance? Or Why listen to Music when you can play it? I play my guitar every once in a while. But I don't do it anymore. It sits there with a layer of dust. Nothing comes close to how it sounds with the stings being plucked and strummed right in front me. The vibrations of the guitar are right there in my soul. I feel it like i'm on a wing of an airplane cutting through the air. Feeling the zing! of the cold night air, and I take in one more drag and Hit the Strings, one more time.

There is no substitution.
I am my own artist. ;
I am my own Critic.
I am the music maker. ;
I am the painter of this sound melody.

I can sing all I want.
Its never coming back.
All that is left is this guitar as it Waves ; ....fades into the night.


The only Rule book I follow, is my own.
Or ^that^ is all BS, and the SQ versus SPL, refers to those enjoying music, and those showing off... respectively?
 
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