DiyMobileAudio.com Car Stereo Forum banner

1 - 20 of 186 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
118 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hello, everyone this is my second post. I'd like to share with you the beginnings of my car audio build, the planning and the execution.

I'd encourage your help along the way. I'm an open book, and I will certainly appreciate any help you all provide.

Let me begin real quick by letting you all know my history with car audio. When I was young and dumb I had some crappy Audiobahn 12's and a Kenwood amp. 10 years later and I realize I had no idea what I was doing and still don't. Now I am 32 with a little more jingle in my pocket(albeit not much more) and a re-budding enthusiasm towards hearing my music better in my vehicle.

What I am looking to get out of this build is good, crisp, clean sound. Also, a nice clean aesthetic. I am a designer by trade it's how I support myself and my family so I want this build to be a reflection of that. I would like to keep the vehicle as close to stock or as close to stock looking as possible.

I drive a 2011 Ford Escape. It's my first "New" car(bought it with 20k on the odo but my previous cars were over the century mark when I got them). Currently it has some Polk DB coax's in the front doors and that is it.

I recently did 1/2 of a "Big 3" upgrade on it and terminated it all with Scosche EFX terminals. The negative side is done; I'm waiting for decent weather to do the plus side.

I've got 1/0 gauge power and ground wire, Knu Crystal RCA's and Knu Twisted 10 gauge speaker wire.

Everything is wrapped in orange and black TechFlex and terminated appropriately with a torch, solder and terminals.

I seriously do not know what equipment I will buy or what the final setup will be.

I have some ideas that I will post in a new post. Again any input; even if it's "No don't do that your an idiot." Please post it, I want to know. I'm not interested in making an expensive mistake.

I will leave you with this. Here are the RCA cables I made. They are Knukonceptz Krystal RCA's that I wrapped in Techflex, shrink wrapped and hand painted the positive terminals orange. (more to come)



Thanks!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,210 Posts
those polk bd series speakers are great starting points, they sound good out of the box and require little to sound better.

Are you planning to replace the factory radio? if so, that makes your life easier but a lot of newer cars, its impractical to do that so you end up with a dsp unit that will control the soundsystem and clean up the factory headunit's output signal.

that to me is the first major decision I see you making.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
118 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Thanks for the input. The Polks are getting the boot. They're going in my girlfriends car. I'm not sure about the factory radio. At first I really wanted to keep it but now I'm kind of torn. I like the way it looks, that it matches the stock trim and is less easy to steal. However, this is pretty sweet too:

Alpine Electronics of America, Inc.

So...I threw this diagram together. Don't laugh it may be completely inaccurate but this is kind of what I had in mind:



This is ballpark what I'm thinking:

1.) HU
A.)Stock Head Unit w/ a Processor
B.)That Alpine Unit I showed above
C.)Other Bridgeable HU

2.) Components
A.)I don't know?

3.) Mid Range Fill
A.)I don't know?

4.) Amp
A.)Probably a 4 channel bridged on the sub channel, but not really sure

5.) Shallow Mount Sub
A.)SI BM IV or III (Expensive and hard to find)
B.)Sundown Shallow Mount (Don't know much about it)
C.)Hertz 30.5(Expensive and hard to find)
D.)MB Quart Shallow(Cheap, Inferior quality and SQ)

6.) Sound Processor(not pictured)
A.)I don't know if I want or need one

So, that's where I stand. Any help on getting this sorted is appreciated.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,210 Posts
what alpine model did you link to? couldn't view it for some reason.

To answer your questions, we need to know some goals. please answer the following questions.

do you want to compete in meca or iasca?

how much space in the cargo area do you need to keep?

how much cutting do you want to do? in doors or in cargo area floor?

budget? entry level $1500, midlevel $4000 or balls out $6 7 k?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
118 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
The Alpine is the Apple CarPlay iLX-007.

My first post should help with some of that.

See:
What I am looking to get out of this build is good, crisp, clean sound. Also, a nice clean aesthetic. I am a designer by trade it's how I support myself and my family so I want this build to be a reflection of that. I would like to keep the vehicle as close to stock or as close to stock looking as possible.
and

hearing my music better in my vehicle.
No competing, just personal enjoyment, pride of ownership and great music that sounds f'in' awesome.

I'd like to maintain the stock floor height in the rear if at all possible and as much of the cargo area as possible, that is why I suggested a shallow mount sub. I'm not afraid of cutting as long as a.) it doesn't mess up the integrity of the vehicle and b.) it remains stock looking. As for budget I'm on the low end of that spectrum. I was thinking $800 for amp and speakers and a few hundred more for the HU or SP.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,210 Posts
ah yes, I didn't read the first post completel, though I thought I did at the time..

alpine headunit, powerbass asa1100.5 with the first 4 channels bridged into re xxx components and one of the pioneer shallow 12 subs on the fifth channel.

I like powerbass as an entry level car amp that performs way better than an entry level car amp, I like the re components cause they have testies and that's really important to me, lightweight sound that you cant feel sometimes just never does it for me, and the pioneer shallow subs are some of the nicer cheap subs that consistently do well.

in a non competition build for around 1k, that's what I'd personally do.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,203 Posts
Hi Matt, thanks for making this thread. This will be much better than PM's because you'll get much smarter people than me to help :)

As we were talking about, I have an amp that may suit you. We can talk more about that later but it would be enough to power a front set of woofers, and a sub, no issue. It would also not necessarily need much power so this will help the charging system keep up.

Yes I was suggesting possibly to use the Sundown SD2 or SD3. Despite not being a "shallow" sub, it actually ends up fitting in lots of applications, without issue.

It has been many moons since I built the Tribute/Escape systems that I've done, and so I don't remember all the measurements from the work I did. But here's the pic of my trunk deadened up and ready for a build. Does yours look exactly the same in shape?




edit:

I found some old pics of some of the parts I installed in my Tribute, so I have some prelim measurements for consideration. Here we go:

This was a sub box I used in one build, here it is partially torn down to refurbish and refit with new subs, it was 6" tall.


It had a simple fiberglass bottom and had a usable depth of a little under 4 1/2"



Here it is, refurbished with a new top and carpet, back in the Tribute with an amp rack.


It housed the SI subs


And had a simple top cover to make a "false floor"





The low depth means even the SD3 may be out if we're going to end up at stock height. I think the only contender left would be the Alpine Type R. I built a box with one for another Escape/Tribute member and it turned out great. Here's a pic:


It is all starting to come back to me, lol. Man that was way back in the years.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,203 Posts
And I think what you might want to do first is settle on a processor. Because with most processors, we'll need to plan out enough amplifier channels to handle what you want. With the MS-8, that will have some amp channels onboard for your rears, maybe your tweeters, etc. So that changes the way you'll plan the system.

Personally, I like MS-8's and have used them many times, so I'm inclined to recommend that for the fact it would be a more simple install.

But going with a different processor is completely OK, you'll just need to plan your amp channel increase around that.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
118 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
ah yes, I didn't read the first post completel, though I thought I did at the time..

alpine headunit, powerbass asa1100.5 with the first 4 channels bridged into re xxx components and one of the pioneer shallow 12 subs on the fifth channel.

I like powerbass as an entry level car amp that performs way better than an entry level car amp, I like the re components cause they have testies and that's really important to me, lightweight sound that you cant feel sometimes just never does it for me, and the pioneer shallow subs are some of the nicer cheap subs that consistently do well.

in a non competition build for around 1k, that's what I'd personally do.
Dude, awesome thank you so much for the input. I like some of these suggestions especially since it keeps everything on budget. I hadn't considered the Pioneers yet so I will throw that in the mix for consideration for sure and at roughly $100 that's a hard to beat price.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
118 Posts
Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
Fourth! Those are the pics that are legendary in that other forum...



I love that build every time I see it. I like the Sundowns because they're beefy and they look like a sub that would get loud. However, maintaining the stock height is important to me so they may be out of the question.

I hadn't considered the Alpines Type R's yet but I'm afraid I might blow my whole wad on just one sub. They are certainly pricey.

Minus the deadening material my trunk currently looks just like your old Tribby trunk. I can snap a pic this weekend.

As far as the sound processor. I have some questions.

1.) Is this an if/or sort of thing? Meaning if I keep my stock radio I will need a SP? If I don't and I go with the Alpine or Pioneer Apple Car Play I won't?

2.) Does a SP offer more channels? So, if I had a D class amp and fed it into a SP would that mean more channels?

I'm going to do some quality reading on it and get all learn-ed up on soundprocessors. Right now I was thinking one 4 or 5 channel amp and either a SP or a head unit but not both(that is if my instinct serves me; but I really don't know how they work). I really don't want more than 1 amp if I can avoid it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,210 Posts
if you keep your factory headunit you will likely need a sound processor, if only to get a clean signal out of it, however it would offer a lot more tuning flexibility.

a sound processor will not add more channels to an amp, it will want more channels of amplification after it in the audio chain to take advantage of its extra tuning features.

I don't think I'd run one in your case unless you keep the stock radio.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,210 Posts
also, the type r subs are not expensive, 10s go for around $160 each which isn't bad at all.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
118 Posts
Discussion Starter #14

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,210 Posts
your right on the 12s, but I wasn't referring to the shallows, i was thinking of the normal type r but that would require a higher cargo floor.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,203 Posts
I'll model the 10 and 12 later on in WinISD and show the graphs. Then you can decide on which one will work better given the space available. If I recall, the one I did for one of the Escape forum guys was a 10".

And lol at the drool pic. That was back around 2008-2010, I've grown a lot in doing this stuff, mostly by making mistakes and learning as I go.

OK stand by, going to model subs brb
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,203 Posts
OK, done. Yes, I would run the 10's for sure. Here's the graph


That plot is SPL, plotted at 300W so you can tell the 12" really doesn't have an obvious advantage, despite needing much more space. 2.0 cubic feet is what I plotted.



The blue line is the 10, and it is coming in at a near perfect .707 Qtc in a 1.02 cubic foot box. So essentially,
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
118 Posts
Discussion Starter #18 (Edited)
Oh man, you rock. I think I've got a pretty good grasp on what you did there. How hard and time consuming is it for you to run that program? If it's not a PITA, for shits and giggles could you run the Pioneer shallows that Lycancatt suggested in a 10 and a 12; TS-SW3002S4 and TS-SW2502S4.

I'm just asking because if the difference is negligible I might be intrigued to go with those because they cost half as much?

Otherwise I will probably go with that Shallow Type R 10. Thanks once again!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,203 Posts
Oh man, you rock. I think I've got a pretty good grasp on what you did there. How hard and time consuming is it for you to run that program? If it's not a PITA, for shits and giggles could you run the Pioneer shallows that Lycancatt suggested in a 10 and a 12; TS-SW3002S4 and TS-SW2502S4.

I'm just asking because if the difference is negligible I might be intrigued to go with those because they cost half as much?

Otherwise I will probably go with that Shallow Type R 10. Thanks once again!

Oh WinISD? Its easy as long as you enter in the params properly which is the only "trick" to it. But if you DL it, be sure to DL the Alpha version .7.0.900

BTW, while playing with ideas, I've been running through the Dayton shallow subs and they are coming out pretty great so far. Its like a simpler Type R. A pair of the Daytons in 10" would work out pretty nice in a 1.5 cubic foot box with 500W of power.

I'll play with those Pioneers in a bit.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
118 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
Cool I will look into the Daytons. Honestly I was only thinking of running one sub but I will consider 2 as long as it fits into budget and I can keep the floor height.
 
1 - 20 of 186 Posts
Top