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Discussion Starter #1
Hello everyone! I have been lurking around for awhile and I have read and researched all I can, but I still am not sure of what way I want to go with a front stage for my car.

The car is a 2002 BMW M3 Convertible that has the HK OEM

I am looking to do a 3 way or maybe even a 2 way set up if feasible.

I have auditioned everything I can in my area including: DYN esotech/esotars, Hertz MLK, Audison Thesis, and will be auditioning Morels, and possibly some otherstbis week. I have in the past had a set of MB Quart 3 way Q's with upgraded premium comp crossovers all purchased in 96/97 that was run off an Orion Concept 97.1. When I played that system a lot I was much younger and probably more forgiving and tolerant, but at the time really enjoyed my Quarts.

I have not auditioned all of these speakers on all the music I like as That would be nearly impossible.

My musical taste is very diverse from classical to metal, country to Jazz, and adult contemporary to blues!!! Love Instrumental like Joe Satriani. Eric Johnson, and much crazier to Dream Theatre and Pantera. As bad as the
recording are I absolutely love Robert Johnson, and some days some Ludacris and trance.

Out of all the speakers I have listened to so far, I have liked the Thesis the most. They sounded warm, but natural, yet detailed, but not to bright. Really full and brought the music to life. The Dynaudio were not as warm or detailed to me. Even the Esotars sounded flat in comparison both in response, but more so in how the music did not seem lively and not as dynamic. The Hetz somewhere in the middle, but I thought the midbass sounded more punchy, maybe not as accurate, but still very good. The Hertz fell down to me in the tweeter. They were not as articulate. Vocals not as clear, more muddy, maybe even distorted at times.

My impressions were that I really liked the Thesis, so my question is are there any speakers out there that will sound similar that aren't going to cost 3-4,000.00 depending on 2 or 3 way per set. It is really hard to swallow that pill regardless weather you can afford them, and I do not plan on competing.
I am open to mix and match DIY even as I am going to go active.
I also have even thought about a horn under the dash to compensate for the top being down. What do you guys think. I want the best quality, but best value as well!

Other things in my system to consider are speaker placement options:
I originally was going for stock locations modifying only for SQ baffling/deadening etc. Or midbass still in door and tweet and possibly mid in pillar if I go 3 wAy as another attempt to overcome the convertible top?

Other equipment I plan on using:
Pioneer p99RS HU/Processing
Amp: Zed Leviathon, Tru Super 6, Zuki 6 or 7 ch. Or other similar amps.
I am really considering the Zed for Value, flexibility, and size compared to others, but don't know how it would compare to something like the TRU.

Sub???? Thesis????? Depends on speakers!

Trying to keep it clean and simple.
Thanks everyone in advance for any thoughts.
 

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Discussion Starter #2
56 views, no opinions yet? All I here is that Cricket in the corner. Can anyone help little confused here at this point.
 

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you're really aiming to the "TOP OF THE LINE"

I dont know if this are going to match your price range, but here are my toughts:

Ranbow reference or platinum series (you'll find active options)
Focal Utopia Be
Brax graphic series

Cheapers, but not cheap:
CDT Gold series
HAT Legatia Pro
DLS
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Thanks I appreciate the ideas, as for top of the line Yeah don't we all have champagne taste even if we have Beer Budgets? The Focal BE are mire expensive than the Thesis I believe. I am using DLS in another project, CDT, Rainbow, I have looked in to but never have got to here and only access is online.

I also have looked in to Hat and from what I understand they are very nice, with good credentials. Same thing no way to hear them and no accessbto them to buy except online.

Basically I am asking two things what other speakers have similar sound and attributes to the Audison thesis that are cheaper? If I can get something on Par with those for half or less the 3-4,000.00 dollar price I would be extremely happy.

So do any speakers you suggested sound like the thesis/similar build and quality, but are much cheaper? If so which ones are most like the thesis? Which ones are the best Value?

Thanks again everyone
 

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Ummm...

The Legatia SE and pro series speakers on the P99 would work wonders. I speak from experience. I came at it with a microbrew budget (not run of the mill beer) and an inexpensive car and I've received fabulous results. Those Legatias are proven in SQ competition.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Can you tell me more about the Legatias SE Speakers. What type of material are the cones made out magnets? Are they 2 way or 3 way sets? Come with passives or meant to be run active? Finally the price range? Where can i buy them, because no one around here is selling them?

One more thing do they or will they compare to the Thesis as for as sound?
 

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The speakers can be ordered "a la cart" or as a set. That depends on who and where you're getting them from. How do they compare with Thesis? That is an absolutely loaded question. On something of this level you should absolutely audition the different sets. I, of course, lean toward Hybrid. That being said, I also run Elettromedia equipment in my vehicle. If you didn't know, Elettromedia is the parent company of Audison (who makes the Thesis line).

I started using Hybrid Audio products based of IASCA reputation and the down to Earth, grass roots style of the company. Sure, I could have gone with Focal, Morel, Dynaudio...but those have been done...even over-done in some cases.

I'm working with the owners of the shop that I frequent on my days off to be more Hybrid aware. I've already had them say that the L1 Pro SE is better sounding the the Morel Ultimo Piccolo tweeter and heads and shoulders above the Focal Utopia tweeters that they used to install at previous shops. The L4 (the "regular" one) I've installed in my A-pillars has dropped jaws with it's range. Mind you, I'm using them at 90 degrees and more so with the tweeters OFF AXIS! Right now I'm running a three way Legatia set in my little sub compact Toyota. It's arguably the best sounding Yaris out there, and I aim to prove it, having just joined IASCA.

Now that I'm officially driving the HAT bandwagon, I'd be willing to bet that there would be a vehicle that you could demo near you. Hybrid Audio might even have a vehicle come to you.

I cannot speak for Elettromedia since I don't know the rep in your area. Ken Weisman (sp?) is the national sales rep. I have his number but I am not at liberty to give it out.

I can say this though, you can call on anyone from Team Hybrids and they would be more than willing to try to set up a listening session somehow. I would suggest getting in contact with Dave Edwards or even Scott Buwalda himself. Scott is the owner of Hybrid Audio Technologies and a well respected SQ competitor. They're on DIYMA regularly. Drop them a line, see what you can work out.

This is unfortunate for me because I'm so very far away from St. Louis. If I was closer, I'd be more than happy to have a listening session.

...Yes, I like Hybrid Audio. It's a good company...
 

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Which Hertz MLK setup did you audition ? The MLK165 2-Way Kit ? the MLK2 or MLK3 kits ?

There is quite a big difference between the MLK165 kit and the higher end MLK2 and MLK3, so if it was in fact the MLK165's that you herd and was atleast a bit impressed.....but still leaning towards the Thesis, try to give the MLK2 or MLK3 a try first, as they are slightly more affordable compared to the Thesis and are Hertz current flagship Mille 2-way and 3-way setups, rather than simply a 'Mille' for the sake of calling it a Mille and making it more affordable to the masses, like the MLK165 kit, which employs a cheaper tweeter, woofer as well as crossover (compared to the MLK2 and MLK3 kits).

Both the tweeter (ML280) and woofer (ML1600), as well as the crossover (MLCX2) in the MLK2 2-way kits are very different compared to what is offered in the MLK165 2-way kit (ML28 tweeter, ML165 woofer, MLCX-20 crossover).

....just a thought.
Allan

MLK165 2-way


MLK2 2-way


MLK3 3-way
 

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Tony,

Take a look at these other suggestions. Let us know what you think and your observations about the ones suggested. I'm more than interested to hear.
 

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What is the noise floor on a BMW M3 convertible? If it is relatively high, I don't know if I I would recommend ANY of the high dollar, high tech brands.

With your processing power, I'd be willing to bet a pair of Exodus Anarchy mids mated to something like a Fountek FR-89 would give many pre-packaged components a run for their money, assuming they were installed properly. If you want 3 way, add a LPG 25NFA tweeter to the mix and you will be running the same exact tweeter that Blues Car Audio sells!
 

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^Wait a second...

What place in ANY logical thought does that make any sense?

I have NO issue with the components you're suggesting, but that initial statement. WTF? Please reiterate and clarify why exactly a high quality set, regardless of price wouldn't make a good home in ANY vehicle, much less a convertible.

That statement is essentially saying that if one has a convertible that your noise floor is too high and you can't use a component set based on it price...not considering it's sound...because it costs more money than what YOU think it should.

I REALLY want to hear your logical explanation for that answer.
 

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The E46 M3 convertible isn't quite your run-of-the-mill, no-soundproof-whatsoever convertible; ze germanz have done quite a nice job with the rooftop. Sure, you can hear the straight 6, but that's sound, not noise. :D

Brax graphic series
The Graphic series has been discontinued. Now Brax offer the Matrix series, still a very nice set (great dome midrange).
 

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snip Hertz MLK snip

MLK3 3-way
I've been pondering on the MLK3 setup for a while now, for another project I'm planning. Just a few minutes ago, I checked its specs out and couldn't help but wonder why they've made a 3way set where both the ribbon midrange and tweeter have about the same usable frequency range. You have to cut the ribbon at [email protected]/oct, which isn't exactly low, compared to most of the mids out there today.

I'd really love to get my hands on them though.
 

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P-99 + HAT = can't go wrong.

add a bunch of MLV+CLD Tiles+CCF it would help.

.
 

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^Wait a second...

What place in ANY logical thought does that make any sense?

I have NO issue with the components you're suggesting, but that initial statement. WTF? Please reiterate and clarify why exactly a high quality set, regardless of price wouldn't make a good home in ANY vehicle, much less a convertible.

That statement is essentially saying that if one has a convertible that your noise floor is too high and you can't use a component set based on it price...not considering it's sound...because it costs more money than what YOU think it should.

I REALLY want to hear your logical explanation for that answer.
I surely wouldn't drop $2,400 on a set of components to install in a convertible for the ultimate Ess Que experience with the top down. As it currently stands, I won't spend more than $350 on door speakers for a car. It is my opinion that a vehicle is the absolute WORST possible environment for audio reproduction with unequal path lengths, reflections, refractions, peculiar resonances, road/tire/wind/other extraneous noise variables, etc.

As for why I wouldn't blow that kind of scratch on a convertible, I've seen what happens to speakers in convertibles when the owners carelessly leave the tops down. They die a premature death from exposure to the elements and require more frequent replacement. Nothing like standing water and direct exposure to the sun to ruin one's drivers! Then again, maybe the OP is more responsible than the spoiled little rich kids I dealt with in the past.

But back to my original argument... I've seen some vehicles measure with a 100 decibel noise floor at 70 MPH on the highway where the owners spent 99% of their driving. There is no way you can convince me that it is worth spending the extra money to install DynAudio ESOTARs in such a noisy environment compared to a lower cost DIY alternative.
 

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Okay, there it is. We've established that you wouldn't spend more than $350 on door speakers for any car. It is logical to presume in your judgement and in that environment everything else above that $350 mark is "expensive". I can agree, a vehicle is the worst environment to audio reproduction. I'm also of the belief that if you can make a car audio environment sound great a home audio system is a walk in the park.

I've had Dynaudio mids in my doors. They don't perform as well as others at half the price (at least in my doors). Although I'm not in a BMW or a convertible. I'm in a Toyota Yaris. Talk about noise floor even with a hard top!

I submit that if you can't find a set that will overcome the noise floor you're working with, you need to get out of the way and let someone who knows something take a crack at it.

I DO applaud the thought of going totally DIY on a project and buying components in and of the manner you suggested. Been there, done that. That is NO reason however to completely dismiss equipment that costs more than what your personal spending limit would allow.

I think we can agree to disagree.
 
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