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Oh I definately see a difference between Composite, S-Video, Component, HDMI, for sure! I just never saw the difference between the "generic" $40 HDMI cable and the $400 audioquest HDMI cable with all the fancy bubbly stuff. It's digital information! Same with optical, I used a no-name $40 cable (I've always maintained that the really cheap ones just break) for all my audio purposes.

That would have been a funny prank. I no longer work there though. Way too low pay (I admit I wasn't willing to 'do the job').
 

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I can definitely tell a difference in cable types (composite vs s.video, etc...) but seriously if it's a decent cable I've never really been able to see or hear a difference.
That's not a difference in cable type. That's a difference in the actual circuit. Just because you use a different cable doesn't mean that's the only difference between composite, S-video, and component. I doubt the differences you hear (or see) have much to do with the actual cable, unless it's a long run in a noisy environment or something. But I think noise has already been addressed in this long, long thread.
 

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That's not a difference in cable type. That's a difference in the actual circuit. Just because you use a different cable doesn't mean that's the only difference between composite, S-video, and component. I doubt the differences you hear (or see) have much to do with the actual cable, unless it's a long run in a noisy environment or something. But I think noise has already been addressed in this long, long thread.
Bullshit Mark, look at the difference between cat6 and phone cord! After I pulled the phone cord out of the back of my computer and put a cat6 in it's WAY faster!

:p :p :p

Chad (feeling a bit onery today, watch out)
 

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That's where I'd say your wrong. All your senses work due to your body physically interacting with something. Taste and smell use small particles of the object in question to create 2 different senses, depending on what nerves are touched (nose or tongue). Sight uses light. After all if I see a light with a wavelength of 700nm, according to your beliefs it'd be pretty hard to predict what color I'd see. After all, you see what you see, we can't argue that, what science can we put behind it? (answer is red ;)

Sound is nothing more than pressure variations in the air, something that with todays technology is TRIVIAL to measure. Before the signal hits the speaker, it's electricity through a circuit, which honestly, couldn't be any more predicable if it tried. The equipment exists to measure all the parameters of sound, and if every parameter is the same between 2 sources, you body has NOTHING it can base the sounds on to make them sound any different, except personal bias and other distortions of the human mind. Then again, that's what marketing is for. If the 2 waves in question measure identical, or close enough to be within the known limits of human hearing (yes, believe it or not, human hearing doesn't have infinite resolution, it gives up LONG before equipment) they will sound the same to the ear.
All true, but you're describing the process of how we perceive things, not the emotional reaction to it. Much like a song can suck, but you might like it because of the memory it evokes.

We do not perceive things the same way, from a stimulus-response-reaction POV. We may be similar enough to make assumptions, but when you begin combining various equipment brands and cables, scope it, and attempt to assert whether we'll "like it" or not, well, it's really only an educated guess. And although it's a convenient target, marketing only plays a certain role in this.

That's the fun of this hobby though, and why audio has such grand appeal. If we all had a predicted response that was identical, somewhere someone would post a list of popular brand combinations and tell you what you should buy based on what you'll hear. Gladly, we can all perceive different combinations of gear in totally different ways, even if in theory our ears detect the sound in similar ways.
 

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Now, as for analog cables.. well, I agreed there could be a difference (an analog signal only gets worse) but no one who insisted that the cables were 'as important' as the TV/reciever/speakers, etc. would agree to sit in a room with their eyes closed and let me switch between cables and nominate their 'favourite', nor participate in any double blind A/B testing. I know that with science we can probably qualify all sorts of differences in a cable, but qualifying them, especially under an actual test without knowing which cables are where is much more difficult.
Well true, honestly the biggest problem I see today (with HDMI in particular) has more to do with build quality, poor soldering/manufacturing standards, and incorrect gauge selection. IOW, when it works it's all the same up to a point. You can "smear" a digital signal just before you achieve full-on loss (reference "cliff effect" for details).

Analog cabling as an interconnect also has to do with the "jewelry" and pride-of-ownership of this hobby as well. Sure, the pure-science types will attempt to "protect" the consumer by throwing the DBT thing out there, forgetting that many that refuse to take one aren't afraid they'll fail, but that they expect to fail (as does the proctor). However, they may not care since small audible differences can be one element in the selection process. It's a hobby; nobody's trying to cure cancer here. Frankly, science should stay focused on things like that instead of finding new ways to pee in people's Cheerios as it pertains to their hobbies.

It's a religion.
Meaning all religion is strictly faith-based, which is a little simplistic if not overtly false. Sure, a 14-armed purple elephant god might be a fabrication (or more likely a metaphor), but that's a small sample.

Point is, not all perception is faith-based. I think the DBT thing points out something interesting about human perception as it directly pertains to attention span. We stop caring about the minute differences over time and begin to compress everything together. People in this hobby on the objectivist side use DBTs as a weapon as opposed to a tool to determine ways in which we can enhance and further develop out subjective perception abilities, which is really a shame.

edit: Also on a side note, earlier on there was some talk about the fidelity of vinyl vs. CDs - and while many audiophiles swear by vinyl, there is some very good information on how vinyl lacks a LOT of the fidelity of CDs. I think one of the better arguments is that the way CDs are PRODUCED is what makes them not as good. As a MEDIUM, CD is superior. A lot of vinyl production gets better attention in the actual recording/production department.
CDs have hard cutoffs of frequency response; most vinyl does not. However I'll take that over clicks, pops, and the general babysitting that is vinyl. Again, like cabling, cars, watches, yachts etc "superiority" many times has to do with elitism more than empirical fact.
 

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CDs have hard cutoffs of frequency response; most vinyl does not. However I'll take that over clicks, pops, and the general babysitting that is vinyl.

Any cutoff of frequency response on a cd is far out of the range of human hearing. It doesnt affect the sound of the cd at all.

Your argument, like most of the rest of your post(s), is terribly flawed.....
 

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The sound above human hearing levels still interacts with sound within hearing range, why do you think they raised the range on SACD and DVD-Audio?
 

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Reverse harmonics:D:eek::D:p

Shame to bring this thread into such disrepute.
Note this thread is the science of cables.

The human ear is NOT the definite measuring instrument. We have used measuring equipment that can exceed human hearing for a VERY long time.
Get over it.
If we can measure it, we know the human auditory thresholds, therefore we KNOW what will cause you to hear a difference. This can measured using frequency, phase and magnitude. If it doesn't effect any of these three measurements, there is no change.
Thats it.
No really.
Yep
Absolutely more than sure, as death and taxes.
We know to effect these three parameters in an analogue system, we only need to know these three measurements.
Resistance
Capacitance
Inductance

Got it.
No magic here.
We also know how much these three will effect a 20 Hz to 20 KHz signal down transmission line.

You are out done by measuring equipment, with resolutions far beyond human hearing.
Concentrate on something that can make a real difference in a car.
Acoustic solutions.:)
 

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Cable sonics guys, here is a thread especially for you.

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7513

A fool and his money are soon departed.

Who am I to try and stop you?

You might wish to see how much wire is inside you head source and power amplifier, speaker cables and passive crossover (if any). Better hope its all sonic-ally tested.:p

You might note I am using my "sarcasm internet cable", I may have to change to my sonic internet cables so I can blather in meaningless superlatives of cable sonics.
Perhaps thats why some of you come across this way.:D:p:D

For a small charge, I can upgrade your internet cables.....
You could wax lyrical in scientific terminology, with the right cables.
Send NOW, don't delay.:D:p:D
 

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Any cutoff of frequency response on a cd is far out of the range of human hearing. It doesnt affect the sound of the cd at all.
20k? True, most over 25 can't hear even that (especially if they've been in car audio long enough).

Your argument, like most of the rest of your post(s), is terribly flawed.....
Really? Which ones? What parts of the argument? Or is that the typical pseudo-science arrogance that permeates threads like this? Arrogance which is a little mystifying, given that it typically comes from types that were stuffed in lockers in high school.
 

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Shame to bring this thread into such disrepute.
Note this thread is the science of cables.
Threads like this always devolve. Check any home theater site for proof. It's just another skirmish among people that think their instruments tell them everything they need to know vs people that make changes to their satisfaction. It's inherently subjective by its nature, so in 100 years we'll still be discussing this.

If we can measure it, we know the human auditory thresholds, therefore we KNOW what will cause you to hear a difference.
The key is whether it makes an improvement, which again, is inherently subjective.
 

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The sound above human hearing does not interact with sound within hearing range in any way that would effect what you hear.
Actually, frequencies above human hearing can affect what you hear if they are recorded due to the effects of sampling. If there are frequencies recorded that are more than the Nyquist frequency they will alias, or show themselves as lower frequencies. Most times you will see whats called an anti-alias, or low pass filter to prevent this. Keep in mind this is due to discrete sampling.
 

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The key is whether it makes an improvement, which again, is inherently subjective.
No
the key is if it makes an AUDIBLE improvement.
Actually, frequencies above human hearing can affect what you hear if they are recorded due to the effects of sampling. If there are frequencies recorded that are more than twice the Nyquist frequency they will alias, or show themselves as lower frequencies. Most times you will see whats called an anti-alias, or low pass filter to prevent this. Keep in mind this is due to discrete sampling.
How drool, now are the frequencies ABOVE twice the Nyquist frequency?
Clue
They resolution should tell you.:)

While I am happy to discuss CD transmission, this thread is cable interconnects, as long as there is no measurable loss impacting on the audible range, it is irrelevant.

Threads like this always devolve. Check any home theater site for proof. It's just another skirmish among people that think their instruments tell them everything they need to know vs people that make changes to their satisfaction. It's inherently subjective by its nature, so in 100 years we'll still be discussing this.
No
Music is subjective.
Sound reproduction is science. The only people that try to make it subjective are the people who have little or no qualifications to make objective statements.

Let me guess, your a qualified electrical engineer right?:)
Or at least SOME electrical training. This is basic physics.
If we cant figure out how to get a 20 Hz to 20 KHz signal down a transmission line, then we REALLY are in trouble.
The only mystery is why people can't grasp basic physics, and even worse, turn around and try to lecture EE on cables.

Spend your time doing something more productive, like cooling the Sun with your breathe.
 

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Really? Which ones? What parts of the argument? Or is that the typical pseudo-science arrogance that permeates threads like this? Arrogance which is a little mystifying, given that it typically comes from types that were stuffed in lockers in high school.

You will never understand because you dont WANT to understand...........:rolleyes:
 
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