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Discussion Starter #1
That is my question.

Vehicle: 2004 Dodge Dakota extended cab

Three way active in the front with a sub in a truck box or two way active up front and coaxial rear fill with a sub in a truck box in the back?

Pioneer head unit (can't remember the model. Not at home right now)

TwK 88 DSP

Amp options
MB Quart MA1-440.4 x2 or
JL Audio XD600/6v2 and RF Prime R750-1D for the sub

CDT Audio drivers up front (HD6, ES02, TW26 for 3 way, HD6 and TW26 for 2 way)
Alpine SPR-50 C in the back if using fill

8" Polk Audio MM840 sub in a prefab custom box
 

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Rear fill that is properly band passed, attenuated and delayed can in fact add ambience that does not at all detract from the front stage and that some peple very much enjoy. When done correctly, it can even widen the front stage.
 

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I disconnected my rear fill and haven't missed it yet for the past 2 years. It boils down to personal preference. I would say experiment without it and see.
 

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Loved the space it added. Also helped set my stage deep. I could steer the stage to just in front of my car. Very weird to experience

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Do you compete? And /or are you going to Jasons GTG in North Carolina?
 

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When having the rear fill debate it's very important to discuss the stereo illusion. The stereo illusion is something that (surprisingly) many people don't even understand. Part of that problem is because so much music is recorded so poorly that it's basically mono anyway, the other part is that most people listen to music passively, not actively. They put it on, but don't pay attention to anything more than the chorus, or the beat.

Stereo is designed to create a sense of space, much like 2 eyes are required for depth perception, 2 ears, and 2 channels of audio can create an illusion of space. This is where staging and imaging come into the mix. Put on a good pair of headphones, find some well recorded music, stop what you're doing, and listen.

The rear fill debate comes down to, how important are those stereo illusions to you? If they are important, rear speakers (unless heavily processed) will have a negative impact on that illusion. If staging and imaging are not important (in a car with all of the outside noise, and the fact that your attention should be on driving, not the music anyway, it's reasonable for even the most passionate audiophile to not care about proper stereo in a car) then rear speakers can add output and a more immersive experience.

Having a car stereo with or without rear fill is a matter of preference. If the stereo illusion is important in the car, then no rear fill or heavily processed rear fill is the way to go.
 

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When having the rear fill debate it's very important to discuss the stereo illusion. The stereo illusion is something that (surprisingly) many people don't even understand. Part of that problem is because so much music is recorded so poorly that it's basically mono anyway, the other part is that most people listen to music passively, not actively. They put it on, but don't pay attention to anything more than the chorus, or the beat.

Stereo is designed to create a sense of space, much like 2 eyes are required for depth perception, 2 ears, and 2 channels of audio can create an illusion of space. This is where staging and imaging come into the mix. Put on a good pair of headphones, find some well recorded music, stop what you're doing, and listen.

The rear fill debate comes down to, how important are those stereo illusions to you? If they are important, rear speakers (unless heavily processed) will have a negative impact on that illusion. If staging and imaging are not important (in a car with all of the outside noise, and the fact that your attention should be on driving, not the music anyway, it's reasonable for even the most passionate audiophile to not care about proper stereo in a car) then rear speakers can add output and a more immersive experience.

Having a car stereo with or without rear fill is a matter of preference. If the stereo illusion is important in the car, then no rear fill or heavily processed rear fill is the way to go.
Excellent points. I for one, at this point in time, do not subscribe to the rear fill philosophy, because for me stereo imaging is what I'm interested in. However, some people have mentioned that if rear fill is done a certain way, ( with delay and low volume and whatever else ) it can add to the imaging in a positive way.

I would like to hear for myself.
 

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Excellent points. I for one, at this point in time, do not subscribe to the rear fill philosophy, because for me stereo imaging is what I'm interested in. However, some people have mentioned that if rear fill is done a certain way, ( with delay and low volume and whatever else ) it can add to the imaging in a positive way.

I would like to hear for myself.
I also run front stage only, in my garage it sounds brilliant, but while I'm driving I'm paying attention to traffic, checking my mirrors continuously, making sure I'm in the correct lane, etc. In my day to day driving, I rarely have the luxury of actively listening to music in the car. I can passively listen, even roll down the windows and sing, but it is very, very rare that I can divert my attention so far away from the task of driving that the stereo imagery is significantly noticeable. I would even go so far as to say that if anyone is paying that close attention to the music in their car while driving, that they are likely the asshole in the left lane holding up traffic ;)

If the process of driving your car isn't getting the vast majority of your attention, you shouldn't be driving.
 

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To everyone saying no to rear fill, I highly suggest looking for a car with a proper rear fill set up and getting a listen. Some of the best competition cars use it. It does in no way detract from the stereo image, and even helps push the boundaries of the sound stage even further if done right.

To the op, you won't be able to do a proper rear fill set up with the twk processor

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Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
...To the op, you won't be able to do a proper rear fill set up with the twk processor

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No worries. I was leaning in the other direction anyway but am liking the conversation about it. Lurning moar stuffs!!!

Edit: Pretty sure I saw a thread that talks about setting rear fill up recently. Took note of that one for when I set my car up. I have a DSP Pro for the car.
 

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I have rears & will use them. Curious what is the typical band-pass area & how much attenuation is needed to add some fill, without distorting the image? This will be in a double cab Tundra for reference.
 

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I have rears & will use them. Curious what is the typical band-pass area & how much attenuation is needed to add some fill, without distorting the image? This will be in a double cab Tundra for reference.

Really, anything above about 120hz will be localizable behind you. You'll want significant attenuation. Since you won't have L-R processing, time delay, and level matching to do it "correctly" you'll just have to see what level gives you the sound you like the best.
 

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Do you compete? And /or are you going to Jasons GTG in North Carolina?
I definitely don't compete. Just been trying to figure out how to reproduce what I like whenever I want it :)

I feel like I've gotten good at that but I don't have rear fill anymore. I'm front stage only and I don't think I could ever get that significantly deep stage without proper fill.

Proper fill doesn't take away from stereo at all. A competing rear stereo stage does.

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Excellent points. I for one, at this point in time, do not subscribe to the rear fill philosophy, because for me stereo imaging is what I'm interested in. However, some people have mentioned that if rear fill is done a certain way, ( with delay and low volume and whatever else ) it can add to the imaging in a positive way.

I would like to hear for myself.
Attenuated/delayed/bandpassed L-R rear fill is intended to add a sense of space. It's to simulate a larger room than the physical (small) boundaries of a car.

I think it's important to make that distinction before dismissing it.

If you do not have the hardware to use this method, then yes, you will hurt the stereo image.
 

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well, i guess i'll do my best to remember what i said and repost it.

to anyone saying not to bother with rear fill, i highly suggest trying to find someone with a PROPER rear fill setup and taking a listen. little do many know, that some of the top scoring cars also use rear fill. it absolutely does not interfere with stereo imaging and also helps enlarge the soundstage if done right. that said, the twk isnt capable of doing proper rear fill
 
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