[E.L.D. 44]

I'm a newbie to the world of aftermarket stereos. I have never had a vehicle I planned to keep long enough to make it worthwhile until now. I need some advice on what direction to go...

I have a 2011 Dodge Ram crew cab that I started to install a system in. Right now it has Infinity perfect 6.1s in the front and back doors, Kappa 3.5s in the dash and 2 Kappa 10s in an enclosure under the rear seat. The doors are powered by an Infinity Kappa four amp and the subs are powered by an Infinity Kappa One amp at 2ohms giving each sub 250 watts RMS. I am not happy with the overall sound so I am replacing my factory headunit with the Alpine w910, along with adding the sirius xm sxv100 tuner. I wasn't happy with the 3.5s so I am replacing them with JBL P426 4" speakers and changing out my headliner speakers in favor of the JBL P26T tweeters. I am adding the Alpine KTP-445 to boost the power to these to 45watts RMS and will continue to run everything else off of my amps.

Two questions:

1. I get a huge discount at Harmon/Kardon so that's why I have stayed with their products up to now. What do you guys think? Any suggestions?

2. I am not extremely impressed with the subs. They have more distorsion than I would like. It may get better once I get a headunit with 4v preouts. If it doesn't what would you guys suggest? Obviously I am going more for overall sound quality not mind numbing bass. I want a sub that will be tight and distortion free as much as possible. I was thinking about the JL 10W3V3 2 ohm subs wired for a 1ohm load which would give them 400 watts RMS.



Thanks in advance guys...

 

[minbari]

dont get that alpine "booster" a real amplifier will sound better and wont cost you much more (if any more)

 

[dragonrage]

How about trying to install some decent sized speakers? In my opinion, anything less than 5.25" is useless.

 

[E.L.D. 44]

It got pretty good reviews so for 110 I thought I'd try it. If I went with a real amp for the 4s and tweets what would you suggest? How would I run dash, front doors, headliner, rear doors, and subs off of 3 preouts? What about sub opinions?



I have 6.5 components in all 4 doors, I just want to utilize the stock speaker locations to try and help with overall sound quality...



Like I said guys I'm new to this. I'm pretty handy but I am flying blind and just guessing. Anything you can recommend would be appreciated...

 

[dragonrage]

Don't be fooled by the idea that more is better when it comes to speakers. Unless you want to set up a 3-way system with proper 3-way crossovers, I recommend you just use the doors for woofers and then wherever the tweeters need to go.

 

[jcollin76]

How about trying to install some decent sized speakers? In my opinion, anything less than 5.25" is useless.

You might want to explain that a little better for the op.
I understand what your meaning, but he may not... It's a pretty inaccurate generalization.

There are many applications, and situations that smaller speakers are well suited for. It all depends on your install, and what your asking the speaker to reproduce.

 

[dragonrage]

You might want to explain that a little better for the op.
I understand what your meaning, but he may not... It's a pretty inaccurate generalization.

There are many applications, and situations that smaller speakers are well suited for. It all depends on your install, and what your asking the speaker to reproduce.

If I add "for a 2-way," would that make you happy? In my opinion, the woofer in a 2-way system should be between 5" and 7".

 

[jcollin76]

Lol I'm happy anyway. Sorry didn't mean to offend ya, just not everyone knows about active, 2-way vs 3-way, install options, etc. And like I said, I knew what you ment but the op might not. A little clarification never hurts, and helps others learn.

 

[E.L.D. 44]

Okay, let me explain a little more. Right now I have the kappa perfect 6.5s in the lower portion of the door in a fiberglass enclosure with the tweeter mounted right above it so I can't relocate the tweeters. I wanted to use the stock locations in the dash and headliner from the beginning so that's why I put them down next to the woofer. Now knowing that what are your thoughts. Does my set up sound feasible/good? What would you suggest and why? What about subs? Would it be worth getting a higher quality subs that I could run 800 watts to instead of 500?

 

[cmahood]

Okay, let me explain a little more. Right now I have the kappa perfect 6.5s in the lower portion of the door in a fiberglass enclosure with the tweeter mounted right above it so I can't relocate the tweeters. I wanted to use the stock locations in the dash and headliner from the beginning so that's why I put them down next to the woofer. Now knowing that what are your thoughts. Does my set up sound feasible/good? What would you suggest and why? What about subs? Would it be worth getting a higher quality subs that I could run 800 watts to instead of 500?

Hi, I have an 07 Dodge Ram which probably has similar acoustics and speaker locations.

I started out with Boston coax 6x9s in front and 6.5s in rear doors.

I upgraded the front stage to PPI 356cs (6.5 two way comps) , and drilled holes for the tweets in the side of the door near the top. Dynamatted the doors heavily. Alpine 4.150.

Raising the tweets up helped with imaging and clarity over the lower location that is facing your knee.

I have a Kicker 8" sub under seat, and the rear coax speakers are not connected. The rear speakers can be used to add some midbass, but they are hidden by the front seats so they dont contribute directly to the sound, so I keep them disconnected.

I then got an Audiocontrol EQS which was the greatest improvement to the system overall. I enjoy listening to the system now, but its not perfect. Its low volume performance could be better. I am not sure if this is because the comps need volume to be in their sweet spot, or because the driver side cone is low and off-axis. The door location is not ideal.

I have heard that you generally dont want two sets of tweets. Less is more, except that the dash coax speakers could help raise the sound stage.


Next I am going to try adding some Infinity 3.5 dash comps and tune them with the audiocontrol. If they sound good by themselves, I will probably get an MS-8 and use that to tune the dash speaks with the comps in the doors.


My advice to you is not to screw around with new components, but work on install locations and tuning. The audiocontrol EQS made a huge difference. Raising the tweeter to the upper door in a traditional location also helped.

If you are set on keeping the dash speakers, get an MS-8. I am sure you will be happy.

 

[E.L.D. 44]

My factory setup has three 3.5s in the dash, a pair of 2.5s in the headliner, 6x9s in the front and rear doors, and a 8 inch sub under the passenger rear seat.

Well I can't change mounting locations of the components or I lose countless hours making the fiberglass door enclosures. I mounted them down there because I was going to have the dash/headliner speakers as well. Right now I have them set on hp on my amp just to get enough treble in my system. I like the imaging for the most part. When it comes to my components they are staying in their current spot.

I listen to mostly country and rock with a little rap as well. I really want a balanced system that has bass but more about overall system sound than rattling the teeth out of my head.

So my questions are:

1. Is there another kind of 6.5 component system out there that will give me a noticable gain in sound quality over the kappa perfects?

2. Knowing that moving components is not an option what is the best way to balance the system out and get nice imaging? My solution was 4s in the dash, tweets in the headliner, and run them off of the alpine w910a headunit with the ktp-455 inline amplifier giving 45watts rms per channel. Is there a better solution?

3. Would I have a noticable gain in sound quality if I replace my kappa 100.9w subs that I am giving 250watts rms @ 4 ohms and switch them out for a sub like the jl audio 10w3v3 that I can run at 400watts rms @ 2ohms. I can turn the gain on the amp down to keep the subs from overpowering anything. I just want nice tight clean bass with minimal distortion. Recommendations on a different sub in the same price range? I have a sealed enclosure, the mounting depth is about 7", and it has .69 cu ft per chamber.

 

[E.L.D. 44]

Bump. I want to finish this up over the weekend so if I need to change my plan and order something different I need to do it in the next day or so...

 

[cmahood]

My factory setup has three 3.5s in the dash, a pair of 2.5s in the headliner, 6x9s in the front and rear doors, and a 8 inch sub under the passenger rear seat.

Well I can't change mounting locations of the components or I lose countless hours making the fiberglass door enclosures. I mounted them down there because I was going to have the dash/headliner speakers as well. Right now I have them set on hp on my amp just to get enough treble in my system. I like the imaging for the most part. When it comes to my components they are staying in their current spot.

I listen to mostly country and rock with a little rap as well. I really want a balanced system that has bass but more about overall system sound than rattling the teeth out of my head.

So my questions are:

1. Is there another kind of 6.5 component system out there that will give me a noticable gain in sound quality over the kappa perfects?

2. Knowing that moving components is not an option what is the best way to balance the system out and get nice imaging? My solution was 4s in the dash, tweets in the headliner, and run them off of the alpine w910a headunit with the ktp-455 inline amplifier giving 45watts rms per channel. Is there a better solution?

3. Would I have a noticable gain in sound quality if I replace my kappa 100.9w subs that I am giving 250watts rms @ 4 ohms and switch them out for a sub like the jl audio 10w3v3 that I can run at 400watts rms @ 2ohms. I can turn the gain on the amp down to keep the subs from overpowering anything. I just want nice tight clean bass with minimal distortion. Recommendations on a different sub in the same price range? I have a sealed enclosure, the mounting depth is about 7", and it has .69 cu ft per chamber.

If you read the forums, you will see that most advice advises a quality front stage, which includes a single comp set, and a high level of concentration on the install and tuning. Sometimes you can use factory install locations, other times you have to fabricate or modify.

A 2-way comp set is typically installed with the driver installed in the stock factory location, and the tweet in the upper door above the speaker. The farther the tweet is away from the woofer, you will run into imaging problems.

Factory systems with multiple speakers in odd locations are difficult to upgrade and tune. I can vouch that you can get an impressive sound with just a 2 way comp set in the front and a subwoofer.

Your home audio system only has 2 speakers and a sub, a car system doesnt need 8+ speakers to sound good. The money is best spent on a quality component set, amplifiers, and installation.

 

[minbari]

you really just need to take a step back and rethink this.

1) you dont need speakers in the headliner, dash, doors, where-ever else you are trying to put em. if you like the 6.5/tweeter comps you have in the doors, then go with those AND only those. you will have a much easier time tuning that kinda setup than sound coming from 3 different directions with mulitple different x-overs on it. (not to mention the time alignment nightmare)
2) The subs are not "creating distortion", you are! If you are overdriving the subs, turn it down. if the power is not clean and you push the amplifier into clipping and distortion. it wont matter what sub you stick in there, it wont sound good. make sure the subs you have are in the optimal enclosure and that you have the gains set correctly on the amplifiers. if the subs are genuinely not able to to take the power you have to give them, then a higher powered sub will help with mechanical excursion. but you still have to set the amplifier up correctly or clipping will still sound bad.

I would start there and go forward. it sound like there is not much you like about the current system. throwing more money and changing all the speakers is not going to help IMHO


and just on a personal note, HATE infinity tweeters. way too bright and harsh, if you dont have those padded down a bit, think about doing that

 

[E.L.D. 44]

you really just need to take a step back and rethink this.

1) you dont need speakers in the headliner, dash, doors, where-ever else you are trying to put em. if you like the 6.5/tweeter comps you have in the doors, then go with those AND only those. you will have a much easier time tuning that kinda setup than sound coming from 3 different directions with mulitple different x-overs on it. (not to mention the time alignment nightmare)
2) The subs are not "creating distortion", you are! If you are overdriving the subs, turn it down. if the power is not clean and you push the amplifier into clipping and distortion. it wont matter what sub you stick in there, it wont sound good. make sure the subs you have are in the optimal enclosure and that you have the gains set correctly on the amplifiers. if the subs are genuinely not able to to take the power you have to give them, then a higher powered sub will help with mechanical excursion. but you still have to set the amplifier up correctly or clipping will still sound bad.

I would start there and go forward. it sound like there is not much you like about the current system. throwing more money and changing all the speakers is not going to help IMHO


and just on a personal note, HATE infinity tweeters. way too bright and harsh, if you dont have those padded down a bit, think about doing that

Thank you! Finally someone addressed my questions directly and in ways that made sense. I like my current setup except for: the dash speakers are way too harsh but I didn't like the sound without them. Not enough of the high range sounds which is partially to blame from my install locations. Subs distort on low solitary bass notes.

What do you think of this... Forget the dash and headliner speakers and try tuning the doors. Turn up the tweeters a few db on the crossover. Possibly try to remount them facing up a little? I'll go ahead and replace the headunit anyway because then I can take the entire factory system out and sell as a single upgrade. As far as subs they are receiving 250watts RNA currently and are rated for 375. The gain is set at a little over half. My thought behind that switch was to run the new ones at 2ohms and give them 400watts rms each. The added power would allow me to turn the bass boost and/or gain down a hair and turn down the subs with a new hu. Maybe get the same overall volume out of the subs but push them less to do it. My box is within the cu recommended for the infinity subs.

Sound good/bad/indifferent? Thanks for the help

 

[E.L.D. 44]

Also what do you mean by padding the tweets?

 

[minbari]

Also what do you mean by padding the tweets?

padding them ussually means turning them down.(via crossover or l-pad) as you mentioned in the other post, if you get them aimed better you may like em more.


that is a much better starting point. once you get the tweeters re-aimed, play with the settings on the tweeter crossovers. but from my experience with infinity, -3dB would be a good place to start

HU selection is up to you just make sure you reset your amplifier gains to the new HU. this is really important to minimize clipping. if you have bass boost on the amplifier, use it sparingly. too much can be bad thing

when you say the subs distort, is it mechanical noise from over excursion? or does it sound like the amplifier is distorting them?
certainly a larger sub that will take more power will help with low end. but as I mentioned before, if the amplifier is not up to task, it will just be a larger, higher powered sub, still making funny noises need to find out if the sub is to blame or amplifier or the setup.

 

[E.L.D. 44]

Okay. I'll do the hu install but not lock it in place and play around with the components and see what I can come up with.

I'm really not sure how to tell for sure where the distortion is coming from but if I was to guess I would say the speaker. It happens most often on low long bass notes at low to medium volume. It probably happens other times too but the rest of the speakers help to drown out the sound. The amp is a Kappa One amp. It's not the best amp out there but it's not a pos either so I don't think it would be the amp. How could I tell? I will probably replace the subs either way. I like the looks of the JL audios more and since I do a lot of shows that may be worth the money by itself..

 

[minbari]

easiest way to tell, turn off all channels except the sub amp. then listen to it. it will make a kinda clanging, bang sound if the sub is bottoming out. plus you will see the sub just moving like crazy.

if it is the amp, you will still see sub movement, but the sound is more "fuzzy" its hard to describe in words how it sounds, lol.

 

[E.L.D. 44]

Ok. If it's the sub that's easy. Replace the sub with the JL. Problem solved. What do I do if it's the amp?