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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I am getting these as they're the best that fit my car and desires, never heard 'em, but that's why I'm getting those, hard to fail.

SEAS Excel W12CY-001 (E0021) 4.5" magnesium Cone Woofer from Madisound

Edit: I now read that these will not easily go under 200hz. I need them at about 100hz, which should be ok according to the data, but I read otherwise here. Can someone elaborate?

I would first like to hear if anyone can recommend some regular OEM slot tweeters (like, 2'' diameter) or should I just build something and point them at me (original slot directed at windshield).

The budget is about 70-90$ each.

The system is 2-way.

Thanks! :)
 

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I have never tried Seas, but you will be hard pressed to have any 4.5 inch play 100Hz with any authority. I have been auditioning Scan 12M and Peerless 4.5 Exclusives. The Scans will play down to ~250Hz but sound better at 315. The Peerless seem a little more comfortable at 250Hz but neither one would come close to 100Hz without sounding like crap. The Seas also have metal cone breakup top deal with so you would need a very robust tweeter that could play down to maybe 2KHz. Hard to find and especially hard to find in small car tweeter package.

Remember you can't defy physics. There is no substitute for displacement in lower frequencies, and 4 inchers do not have it. We would all love to have 2 inch speakers that played flat from 20-20KHz at 120dB with <.5% distortion which cost $75/pair. But I haven't found those yet. So we all make compromises.

Not trying to steer you away from the Seas. They are world class midrange drivers. But just be aware of their limitations and how they would fit in your system implementation.
 

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Zaph|Audio

If you haven't yet seen his research on raw drivers.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks alot.

I have come to that conclusion myself in the meantime, and have been looking for other drivers, that *can* (should, actually, as I haven't audited them) satisfy my needs. I found these:

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/psho...78&ctab=1#Tabs
OR
http://www.madisound.com/catalog/PDF/SB12NRXF25-4.pdf

And yeah, I have found that page as well in the meantime, and reached these 2 as a conclusion:

http://www.madisound.com/catalog/pro...oducts_id=8540
OR
http://www.madisound.com/catalog/pro...oducts_id=1744

These are all cheap enough for me to just audition myself.
 

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Trying to build a 2-way system with a 4.5 usually isn't a good idea. That 4.5 isn't going to play low enough with any balls to blend with your subs. Well...depending on your subs you can cross them high, but i wouldn't really want to cross any sub at 200hz. For a 2-way, look to see if you can fit anything bigger than 4.5. I don't think you'll be happy with a 2-way like this, but i suppose it's worth a try if you already have the speakers ordered.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Nah, they aren't ordered. I'll go take pictures later, so you can see how bad the OEM door builds are. 130mm is the absolute maximum diameter that would fit. The upside for me is that I have always liked my midbass (previous 6.5'' ones) crossed at 100hz HPF. I don't like bass, and I don't need balls to the wall bass, not even close. I think that too much bass is not a faithful reproduction of recordings. (too much being what 99% of people have, imo). I will go and order them now, worst case scenario I'll get new cabs for my bedroom :)
 

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Nah, they aren't ordered. I'll go take pictures later, so you can see how bad the OEM door builds are. 130mm is the absolute maximum diameter that would fit. The upside for me is that I have always liked my midbass (previous 6.5'' ones) crossed at 100hz HPF. I don't like bass, and I don't need balls to the wall bass, not even close. I think that too much bass is not a faithful reproduction of recordings. (too much being what 99% of people have, imo). I will go and order them now, worst case scenario I'll get new cabs for my bedroom :)
Even if these 4.5's can play down to 100hz (I haven't seen the graphs/specs) they will not do it with the same authority as a 6.5. There will be no bass. Yes most people like a ton of bass, but on this website things are a little different. Most of us want a well balanced system and any system that is lacking from 200hz and down is not well balanced. If you are running subs, you'll have to cross them high to blend with the 4.5s which will cause a lot of localization. If you aren't running subs, you are missing out on a pretty significant part of the audio spectrum.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
I will run subs for sure, I'm thinking about 2x8''. The drivers I've listed have some xmax to their name, and with optimum power I'm sure I can get a bit of bass out of them. My preferable crossing point is 100hz, but I can go for 125hz, which would still maintain my front stage hopefully. There are no other options other than radical builds (and I do mean radical, I'd have to build like half the door, and it's a new car that I want to keep as OEM as I can, parts are insanely expensive)

Also, what would you say is the maximum HPF for a sub? is 20hz a must or is 30hz ok as well?
 

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I slapped a system in my current car back when I first put it in. I had a set of 4" Kenwood comps that were pretty old from someplace, NIB. I put them in a hunk of 1/2" wood plate and screwed it in temp. Man did they sound nice, but no bass. The 4s just wont do it. I could get close to 100Hz on a 2x40 old school amp but not at max output not a chance more like 200 then. So I put other larger comps in but if I could figure out a midbass I'd put the kenwoods back in, for some reason they just seem to fit the car. I have no idea how expensive they were, etc, but have had them around for well over 10yr maybe 15.

Of course if you try for more bass with more of a sub type driver for a mid, they don't play nice up high. However I would try to mount larger mids, even if I had to back mount them or something in the smaller hole. Just make sure you expect what people are telling you here this is a difficult issue to get around.

I like to hit my 15Hz subsonic on my IB subs, but that is a matter of preference many people don't care about under say 35Hz it seems. Some even say there is no music down there. It should sound OK at 30Hz subsonic/HP and I doubt many 8s are going there anyway. If you don't care/like big bass it should not be an issue for you at all. I want to feel the car shake a little and so 8s are not high on my list...but it is about what you want, can fit, and what you listen to. 20-20k Hz is real SQ to be technical, but you do what you can. Installing my subs was a pita, and I love the sound, but most people are not going to do that install. I only did it to get low, down to 20Hz, and for me its great. Testing another amp right now and they still sound good on about a 100wrms.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Well, obviously a random 4''er has a 95% chance to not be able to get to 100hz, which is why I'm looking for specific ones.

I'm considering using some 6.5'' Tang Bands subwoofers for fun, since like I said I do not care much for bass.
 
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