[MythosDreamLab]

First off, I am running Focal AS 165 Performance 2-Ways, they cost (approx.) $350 a pair and while the tweeters sounded way better than the Honda OEM set, I always found them overly bright & harsh. Next a number of people at different stereo shops (all of which SOLD Focals) also mentioned that Focal tweeters tend to be on the bright side. I was hoping that moving to a DSP amp, that this could be dialed back (adjusted) and for the most part it was, but it is still too much for my expectations.

Knowing that "you get what you pay for" and that more expensive Tweeters are going to sound better, I am moving forward at full speed to get a better Front Stage in my vehicle. I'm still investigating if I can add a Mid range (and go 3-way, which I know is better), but 2-way or 3-ways BOTH use Tweeters!

So is the ($2k) Utopia Tweeters less harsh and bright than Focal tweeters used in $300 sets? How about the K2 tweeters, are they any better? Should I just avoid Focal tweeters all together? I love the Utopia Mids & Woofers, but am "gun shy" of their tweeters now...

The Morel Supremo piccolo Tweeters (only) run about $850 a pair and they are the exact same ones used in their $5,500 set... anyone own, hear, compared them to Focals?

I was also considering the Thesis TH 1.5 II Viollino Tweeters, but don't think they will fit in my A-Pillars without some expensive mods.

So I'm hoping some of you people with supremo tweeter knowledge can break down the differences in tweeter design and explain what I should be looking at, listening to, checking out...

BIG THANKS!!!

 

[miniSQ]

Audiofrog has one of the nicest sounding tweeters i have ever heard. GB10 for 3 way, and GB15 for 2 way. Both are well under $500.

 

[FAUEE]

You lost me at "you get what you pay for" and "more expensive tweeters are better".

First off, what you're complaining about is that the tweeters have more output. You say they're too bright, which if you try to translate I to actual measurable thi GS, means their output is too high at higher frequencies for you. That's easy to fix, you can take them off axis, DSP them down, or go to a tweeter with lower sensitivity and/or lower output at high frequencies. None of those require you to spend more. What usually costs more (in general really) is playing lower frequencies.

You should try some xt25s and see how you like them. They're way cheaper, and maybe convince you that more mo ey and more better aren't the same thing.

 

[MythosDreamLab]

You lost me at "you get what you pay for" and "more expensive tweeters are better".

I'm sorry, in the US and the way capitalism works is that generally speaking a $50,000 car is better than a $20,000 car, of a $400 North Face Down Jacket is better than a $49 Walmart Down Jacket or to bring things back to stereos; a tweeter in a $2k set is better than the tweeter included in a $360 set, I don't think that is overly confusing, and we can discuss economics further if you like...

First off, what you're complaining

I'm sorry you think I'm complaining...I'M NOT, I'm simply trying to set up a scenario where people don't over analyze every aspect of my post, or need to ask additional questions and EXPLAIN THE DIFFERENCES in Tweeters...!

You say they're too bright, which if you try to translate I to actual measurable thi GS, means their output is too high at higher frequencies for you. That's easy to fix, you can take them off axis, DSP them down,

Great idea, that's exactly what they did and the highs are still too bright/harsh, which was even pointed out by the Shop Manager.

or go to a tweeter with lower sensitivity and/or lower output at high frequencies.

Ok, cool, that's what I wanted to do and is the entire reason for my post, perhaps someone can expand on the differences in tweeter design(?)

None of those require you to spend more.

I don't mind spending the money, my post was not about "What's the cheapest tweeters I can get that sound good"

What usually costs more (in general really) is playing lower frequencies.

Ok, but let's wait for my woofer/sub post to address that..

You should try some xt25s and see how you like them. They're way cheaper,

Ok, we get to a recommendation, BIG THANKS, except I have no idea what brand those are, could you have at least told me the brand so I can take a look?

They're way cheaper, and maybe convince you that more mo ey and more better aren't the same thing.

Thanks, but again, I'm starting in the price range, that I have the funds to spend in, and I'd appreciate you NOT trying to talk down to me in the future, I came here for help, not ridicule and I assure you that in my life more money DOES buy better things...! Cheers!

 

[SQ_Bronco]

You could also just add a small resistor to the circuit to lower the power they receive. A 4 ohm resistor ($2) should lower the upper end by 3dB.

Before you do anything check your passive crossovers as there’s a very good chance they have a resistor circuit built in.

 

[MythosDreamLab]

You could also just add a small resistor to the circuit to lower the power they receive. A 4 ohm resistor ($2) should lower the upper end by 3dB.

Before you do anything check your passive crossovers as there’s a very good chance they have a resistor circuit built in.

Thanks I asked about that before and they said it would not help, but now I'm running active, it does sound a bit better, they also think that pushing more power will burn them in more thoroughly as I now have 85w (max) vs the OEM Amp which was probably closer to 20/25w...

 

[gijoe]

Thanks I asked about that before and they said it would not help, but now I'm running active, it does sound a bit better, they also think that pushing more power will burn them in more thoroughly as I now have 85w (max) vs the OEM Amp which was probably closer to 20/25w...

More power will not help, you do not need to burn them in. It sounds like a classic case of them already being too loud, attenuating them (reducing power) is a much better idea.

 

[DeLander]

Xt25 tweeters are made by Vifa ( Peerless branded now )

I don't think he's talking down to you- at least that's not how I read it.

I think he's just saying that a decent pair of tweeters ( cheap - if you will ), COULD do what you require if installed and tuned properly.

 

[gijoe]

Xt25 tweeters are made by Vifa ( Peerless branded now )

I don't think he's talking down to you- at least that's not how I read it.

I think he's just saying that a decent pair of tweeters ( cheap - if you will ), COULD do what you require if installed and tuned properly.

He’s also trying to point out that tweeters that play low are expensive, he was not referring to midbass, or any low frequency drivers. If you don’t need a tweeter to play low, you can find very nice sounding tweeters at a very reasonable price. I’m not sure swapping tweeters is the right move now though, especially since OP has DSP.

 

[DeLander]

He’s also trying to point out that tweeters that play low are expensive, he was not referring to midbass, or any low frequency drivers. If you don’t need a tweeter to play low, you can find very nice sounding tweeters at a very reasonable price. I’m not sure swapping tweeters is the right move now though, especially since OP has DSP.

Agree. I was just trying to help clarify what FAUEE was saying ( I think ).

 

[SQ_Bronco]

Sorry, I missed that you are running active. The first post said “2 way” and I assumed that meant you were using passive crossovers.

If you have a separate tweeter amp it should be very easy to solve a harshness problem by reducing the gains. If you have dsp try raising the crossover frequency first, and if that doesn’t help, try cutting 3 db at various frequencies in the 1.5k-4K range (or boosting briefly to see if it makes it worse, to help id the right freq to cut).

If the harshness sounds like “sssh” try cutting in the 7k range.

 

[FAUEE]

Agree. I was just trying to help clarify what FAUEE was saying ( I think ).

You guys nailed it.

This site was founded on the principle of using high quality but low cost speakers. It seems like a lot of people here keep pushing the limits of how much you should spend on speakers. Tweeters are especially something you can get great performance out of without spending a giant amount of money. Are you actually getting anything extra if you spend more than $100 for Morel or Scans?

 

[Eatmore Bacon]

Doesn't the "harshness" of tweeters have a lot to do with cone material as well? Maybe not the brand as much as the type? Just asking because that is what I have come to understand. So a metallic cone will be harsh when compared to a "soft" cone.

 

[Rainstar]

Doesn't the "harshness" of tweeters have a lot to do with cone material as well? Maybe not the brand as much as the type? Just asking because that is what I have come to understand. So a metallic cone will be harsh when compared to a "soft" cone.

Fabric vs Metal Dome Tweeters: Which is Better?

There has always been an ongoing debate about the sonic characteristics of tweeter dome materials. Which is better: hard (metal)or soft(fabric)dome tweeters? We attempt to answer this question.

www.audioholics.com

 

[Henrique Duarte]

You lost me at "you get what you pay for" and "more expensive tweeters are better".

First off, what you're complaining about is that the tweeters have more output. You say they're too bright, which if you try to translate I to actual measurable thi GS, means their output is too high at higher frequencies for you. That's easy to fix, you can take them off axis, DSP them down, or go to a tweeter with lower sensitivity and/or lower output at high frequencies. None of those require you to spend more. What usually costs more (in general really) is playing lower frequencies.

You should try some xt25s and see how you like them. They're way cheaper, and maybe convince you that more mo ey and more better aren't the same thing.

What is the brand of the xt25s? I am curious about them

 

[squiers007]

What is the brand of the xt25s? I am curious about them

See Post #8, they are made by Vifa (Peerless). Can be found on Madisound or PE, looks like they are all out of stock right now though...

Vifa XT25SC90-04 Ring Radiator Tweeter

 

[Jroo]

You guys nailed it.

This site was founded on the principle of using high quality but low cost speakers. It seems like a lot of people here keep pushing the limits of how much you should spend on speakers. Tweeters are especially something you can get great performance out of without spending a giant amount of money. Are you actually getting anything extra if you spend more than $100 for Morel or Scans?

I agree with this. The only time I have spent more money was trying to find a large format tweeter that would play lower. Even if this case, I was looking at raw drivers not something from the big name in the industry. Ill be honest, I have never a/b my tweeters with the more expensive offerings but I have been more than happy with the large format ring radiators I found as a hot deal for 60/pair several years ago. Could I get better sound, Im sure I could. I just could never justify the massive price swing and what i think would only be a slight increase in SQ

 

[Jroo]

this also brings up an interesting point. For years people here found the build houses for the many of the brick and mortar brands and would find the cheaper raw driver options. In many cases, those drivers were very much the same of had very slight tweaks. For some of the high end offerings from companies like Focal etc, is that still the case or do they have proprietary designs now? For instance, the arc black line was sb acoustics and you could find very close versions for much less in raw driver format.

 

[MythosDreamLab]

Fabric vs Metal Dome Tweeters: Which is Better?

There has always been an ongoing debate about the sonic characteristics of tweeter dome materials. Which is better: hard (metal)or soft(fabric)dome tweeters? We attempt to answer this question.

www.audioholics.com

That was interesting and helpful...thanks...!

 

[FAUEE]

NVX was using SB Acoustics drivers and tweeters in their top level stuff.

I don't think focal or rockford or other larger audio companies are using designs from build houses on most stuff. Their size enables them to have that sort of thing in house, or possibly just working with a design consultant sometimes.

When you start talking about a smaller company, unless you have a guy heading it that's already a speaker design guy, they're likely using build house designs. Sometimes those are bespoke, but if they're good, they find their way into other brands.