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Great job. This is a giant leap forward to how things used to be "tested" on a living room floor with no baffle, and then the results posted and re-posted around the world as gospel truth. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #163
Thanks, Scott.

As we had discussed before, my goal is to achieve the greatest absolutism that I can but realistically, I can't test in an anechoic environment. This will have to work and hopefully the lengths I've gone through will help to negate most questions in future testing. Unfortunately, Mark's drivers were the guinea pig and therefore I'm re-testing and reposting the results of his drivers.

I amended the testing requirements a tad bit and laid things out in this other thread that has been stickied. It really lays out the ground rules for my testing so everyone will know what I'm doing and how I'm doing it. If there are further questions from someone who may want to try to start their own testing I certainly encourage and welcome them.

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/product-reviews-erin-harrdison-bikinpunk/103414-driver-testing-methods-setup-frequency-response-harmonic-distortion-only.html
 

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I love the ceiling panel :) That is definitely some high quality engineering but I am not sure about the implementation :)
 

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Re: Audible Physics XR3M-LE and AR3K Drivers

I honestly think this will be great. Personally, I think any tests at under 90db at 1 meter are useless in a car. My planar covers the same range as a 3 inch speaker and it is 90db sensitive @1w 1meter. I'm pretty sure I run more than 1w to it, even with the engine off. Some midrange drivers are under 1% THD all the way up to 100db. How is one going to compare owning a 3" with one of those?
That planar goes down to 200hz. :confused:
 

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well sure, to some extent it is simply a matter of how much distortion you can tolerate. i would never cross my planar or a 3 inch that low in a car, unless they are in a line array or waveguide.

erin, can you tell me how your tests comare to zaphs? im aware you tested at 4 db lower level, what else is different?
 

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Discussion Starter #171
I can't recall exactly how he does each of his tests; they're not all the same. I know that his tweeter testing is done at 4", but no idea what the level is (for it to match his other 96dB, it's probably closer to around 89dB or so (ballparking it... half, half).

I think his small mids are tested at 96dB, 1/2m and larger mid/woofer are at 92dB 1/2m.


Seriously, I don't want to get hung up and sound like I'm preaching to the choir, but you guys really need to consider just how damn loud 92dB is when it's PURE TONES (and that's exactly what the HD testing in SE is). Just something to consider when you're reading his numbers and mine.
Besides, even at 92dB, 1/2m, you can get a clear idea of where a driver's nominal bandpass will be.
 

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Sorry, I meant frequency range. Were they all 20-20k or did you change them up. Would imagine tweeters were different, no?
Tweeters where tested with an "appropriate" frequency range, to avoid destroying them :)
 

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I can't recall exactly how he does each of his tests; they're not all the same. I know that his tweeter testing is done at 4", but no idea what the level is (for it to match his other 96dB, it's probably closer to around 89dB or so (ballparking it... half, half).

I think his small mids are tested at 96dB, 1/2m and larger mid/woofer are at 92dB 1/2m.


Seriously, I don't want to get hung up and sound like I'm preaching to the choir, but you guys really need to consider just how damn loud 92dB is when it's PURE TONES (and that's exactly what the HD testing in SE is). Just something to consider when you're reading his numbers and mine.
Besides, even at 92dB, 1/2m, you can get a clear idea of where a driver's nominal bandpass will be.
My roadnoise is that loud at times. To me it's not hard to gage, nor does it appear loud.

Do you have a TBW3 or HIVI BS3 to test? I can send you my TB drivers for a comparison.

One more thing. is there a way to stretch the THD axis a bit? We're mostly interested in 1% THD for a 3", not 10%. It's really hard to read it for midrange drivers, for subs the scale looks fine.
 

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Discussion Starter #175 (Edited)
Re: Hybrid Audio L3SE

HD performance looks pretty darn good (I'd love to see this one at 96db so I could compare it with tests from another well respected site ;) I know, I know, no fair compairing against other tests but it would be quite informative). FR is not bad especially if you consider this is going into a car where the environment is going to play large havoc on FR anyway.
I understand and you're not the first to ask for this. The problem for me is sheer loudness levels. Even downstairs, it's quite loud at 92dB. I mean, loud enough for my baby to look concerned and my damn dogs to hide (I'm serious). Sounds like a silly cop-out, but I just can't see me putting my family through the hell of 96dB 10khz tones. lol

Additionally, to give all drivers a fair shake, I've settled on 90-95dB. I think it's pretty fair for most all drivers and covers the bounds pretty well. I keep saying it, and some don't seem to care, but we're not talking music here. 92dB tones are extremely loud. Extremely loud. The 92dB level was not picked arbitrarily, either. If you look at the video I posted you can see that a 92dB @ 1/2m level has this and the other 3" drivers I tested moving very well in to their xmax. If I upped the levels I'd likely have to narrow the bandpass on the drivers to keep them from going crazy on the low end and potentially damaging them. I don't want to pick and choose passband for testing so I picked something that makes most sense and shows the driver's behavior on the top end as well as low end, beyond a typical crossover point. Narrowing this down would cause me to have to do the same for other drivers, and that could potentially be not telling the whole story in both good and bad ways for other drivers. Additionally, since these drivers are not mine, and future testing will be done on others' drivers I've settled on 92dB for this size driver as a good round number.

I'm considering doing mid/woofer testing at 95dB but that's because the rolloff on the upper end takes over before I start to hear ear-splitting tones 2 rooms over and down a floor and because the levels we typically drive a woofer are typically higher than smaller mid/tweeter drivers. Plus, they can typically just take more abuse.

- Erin
 

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Discussion Starter #176
Re: Hybrid Audio L3SE

That's where listening and seeing graphs comes in. There's no AES papers or books written on how X in HD charts correlates to sound.
Realistically, I look at them to point me in the direction of crossover points.
Secondly, you can try to see what you hear and try to sync that to the HD plots (ie: "warm", "cold", "detailed", etc).

It's not really a simple answer and, I'm afraid, there's too much room for subjectivity in a post such as that for me to be the one to try to answer that.
The good thing for me is that I'm able to listen to the drivers and take notes, then run the tests. The bad part?... I still have yet to listen to any of these 3" drivers I've tested. :(
 

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Re: Hybrid Audio L3SE

That's where listening and seeing graphs comes in. There's no AES papers or books written on how X in HD charts correlates to sound.
Realistically, I look at them to point me in the direction of crossover points.
Secondly, you can try to see what you hear and try to sync that to the HD plots (ie: "warm", "cold", "detailed", etc).

It's not really a simple answer and, I'm afraid, there's too much room for subjectivity in a post such as that for me to be the one to try to answer that.
The good thing for me is that I'm able to listen to the drivers and take notes, then run the tests. The bad part?... I still have yet to listen to any of these 3" drivers I've tested. :(
Is F1 the one we should look at?
 

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Discussion Starter #178
Re: Hybrid Audio L3SE

Zaphs site has good info on non-linear distortion. In fact, google that term. It should help a lot. Also, NPDang has a sticky in the review section n reading distortion measurements which may help, though I believe he only did IMD testing.
 

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Re: Hybrid Audio L3SE

I understand and you're not the first to ask for this. The problem for me is sheer loudness levels. Even downstairs, it's quite loud at 92dB. I mean, loud enough for my baby to look concerned and my damn dogs to hide (I'm serious). Sounds like a silly cop-out, but I just can't see me putting my family through the hell of 96dB 10khz tones. lol


- Erin
It's the distortion Erin, always has been. A 7 inch driver tested on axis will generally perform well into the higher frequencies. Because it's larger and beefier it will have significantly lower distortion. Distortion in the very high range where a 7 won't reach doesn't matter anyway, especially the much more annoying higher order.

You set the bar very low so that some of the 3s you tested don't go into power compression and take off your stucco. This will inevitably hurt the evaluation of the more capable 3s or larger drivers. I mean at 86db @ 1 meter, your most powerful test, would only require a watt for many capable drivers. How many of us use 1w on a 7"? If we did, we would all run headunit power and still have insane headroom.

Can you test when the family is not home? I'm sure the next drivers won't be as bad. The 93.5db HD plot you took off the site was the most useful imo. If the driver falls apart at that level you still have your disclaimer about testing drivers. At such a low level if it falls apart it's probably good that the consumer does know about it anyway. You see now why Zaph only shows tests for the best drivers. He tests at 4 db more as it is, and that's for low background noise home applications. He even has some very small drivers at this output. More importantly there are many 3s in that test group that look very good at 96db, it's certainly plausible other drivers CAN.

This 3 is the better one out of the ones you tested for sure. My guess is that a TB W3 or HIVi BS3, Zaphs favorite will do much better. For one they have similar distortion in the 200hz range in Zaph's tests and those are at much higher volumes.
 

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Re: Hybrid Audio L3SE

Zaphs site has good info on non-linear distortion. In fact, google that term. It should help a lot. Also, NPDang has a sticky in the review section n reading distortion measurements which may help, though I believe he only did IMD testing.
I will look for both of those, thanks.
 
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