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Discussion Starter #1
I currently have Hertz Mille Pro in the lower door and pillar. An upgrade for additional mid Bass and /or vocal clarity and smoothness in vocals would be to upgrade tweeters, mids or should the focus be on both?

Doors are deadened and sealed off and I use and audiocontrol DSP for delays, EQ, etc.
 

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You have good front drivers, but how well tuned is the setup? Answer that honestly if you may.

What about the sub? You didn't mention that and it has a lot to do with getting good midbass as it and the midwoofer must work as a team.




Man & Machine... Power Extreme!
 

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Discussion Starter #3
You have good front drivers, but how well tuned is the setup? Answer that honestly if you may.

What about the sub? You didn't mention that and it has a lot to do with getting good midbass as it and the midwoofer must work as a team.




Man & Machine... Power Extreme!
I've been running some measurements using REW for the past two weeks. Currently I'm using a ported 12 inch Incriminator Audio lethal injection. I have switched back and forth between that and a dual ported Dayton 10 inch. The lethal injection measures slightly better in my car.
I know how to use REW and I have taken many measurements over the past two weeks. Tuning a car is something new for me. I have been doing it myself with varying results. If I said on a scale from 1 to 10 with 10 being the most satisfied, my midbass would be at a 7 and my vocal Clarity and top-end separation of instruments but be at a 5. BTW, bass would be at an 8.
 

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I've been running some measurements using REW for the past two weeks. Currently I'm using a ported 12 inch Incriminator Audio lethal injection. I have switched back and forth between that and a dual ported Dayton 10 inch. The lethal injection measures slightly better in my car.
I know how to use REW and I have taken many measurements over the past two weeks. Tuning a car is something new for me. I have been doing it myself with varying results. If I said on a scale from 1 to 10 with 10 being the most satisfied, my midbass would be at a 7 and my vocal Clarity and top-end separation of instruments but be at a 5. BTW, bass would be at an 8.
Good info given. I think you'l be fine with with some more work.

I say stick with tuning that set. If you can post up some graphs, we may get a clue on what needs more work, or if something in the system needs changing. Usually it's the tune if the install is pretty solid.


As far as midbass, have you done any EQ'ing on the sub? Ported enclosures tend to be a bit midband-bottom heavy once in the car. Some EQ work throughout its range might be needed including above the crossover point. I tend to do the same on the mid (below the hpf). What happens out of the pass band is crucial to the blend also. Could be a issue with response, level, phase, or a combination of all because the sub and mid must act as one around the crossover point even if it's staggered.

Man & Machine... Power Extreme!
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Man & Machine... Power Extreme!
This was from 2 days ago and is where the system is current playing. The yellow is hard to read (mids/subs combo). I made no cuts and/or boosts after these particular measurements.

Sub running from 30-60hz 4th order, mids 80-3200hz 4th order, tweeters 3200-up 4th order (cut off at 10khz because nothing crazy was occurring above) 1/12 smoothing so I could get an idea what was happening.

TW just below eye level in pillars, not ideal but mids in lower door, sub against back seat with port/driver facing rear, rear speakers not being used

270220
 

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Not too shabby. I've seen much worse, but there's definitely room to improve so I wouldn't dare think about swapping at this moment.

I drew a rough curve through your graph to aid you where to knock down specific peaks. Some are manageable with slightly wide Q filter to avoid trying to pinpoint each tiny twin peak. The main objective is to flatten/tighten the response in the midrange while leaving some heightened response trailing into the sub.

You also want left and right to match as close as possible so pay attention to where they differ during adjustment but don't worry about dips particularly in the upper bass range that's common with mids in doors and driver seating position.


I am concerned with the sub's response and how it's mating to the mid as well as the tweeter's response that appears low. May need to raise the tweeter's level a tad while giving attention to the spike in the upper portion. You say it's cutoff, hopefully you mean not much output rather than applying a low pass filter @ 10khz.

The sub, I'd try a higher crossover point than 60hz. You're crossing in the meat area so-to-speak. Maybe a 70/90hz combo, yet you will have to make sure phase is correct. There does seem to be a dip in the transition area that needs solving.

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You have A LOT of improvement to be made with tuning. The midbass to tweeter drops like a stone. Those huge peaks between 800 and 1k are only adding to the problem. It's pretty obvious from that graph why you feel the vocals need work.

Adjusting the scale to show 5dB increments on the y axis will help too.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
@Bayboy I will make some cuts to the high peaks and adjust crossovers, thanks.

@gijoe Hopefully making a crossover change will correct mid-tweeter drop (currently at 3500 but, will move to 4000 and ck results). I'll make the adjustment to show 5db increments when I re-measure.
 

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@Bayboy I will make some cuts to the high peaks and adjust crossovers, thanks.

Before changing the crossover on the tweeters (unless it is to eliminate a lpf @, 10khz) I'd raise the level a tad so the handoff is smoother. Tweeters naturally start to taper in response except for some peaking way up. Just level up & hit the peak then see if there's anything that remains.


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See Bayboy's post (again), he's right the tweeters need to be brought up a few decibels, the crossover point isn't the only problem, they are overall too low compared to the mids.

Set the limits to 20hz to 20khz, and hit "apply settings". Then use the slider to get your graph in the middle of the screen, then hit the little magnifying glass a couple of times to get 5dB increments. Then use the slider again to re-center the graph. Apply 1/6 octave smoothing for now, then post up a new graph.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Before changing the crossover on the tweeters (unless it is to eliminate a lpf @, 10khz) I'd raise the level a tad so the handoff is smoother. Tweeters naturally start to taper in response except for some peaking way up. Just level up & hit the peak then see if there's anything that remains.


Man & Machine... Power Extreme!
@gijoe Thanks for your help as well.

What do ya think?

First graph is every speaker individually measured.
Second graph is combination of all speakers before and after adjustments.
Adjustments were x-over change sub/mid to 70/90hz 4th order, adjust gain up on tweeters, cuts @ 40-60hz, 500-800hz, 1.5khz, and 8khz
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