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Wow thead gone bad !
As if a admin wouldn't notice a slap in the face by its members
Here is an idea if a member feels like he think he knows all the awnsers
To the wheels that run a forum - private message the admin
Don't measure your man hood in a post
And I think it says a lot of an admin to defend himself them just close or delete
The thread
I may be new here but I do try to follow the don't bash rules
This thread was askew from the first post.

And as for the admin defending himself directly...
The impression I have gotten is that things are usually handled differently around here. We all get flamed from time to time and us underlings have no choice but to take it in stride.
 

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by saying "There used to be a crazy on the forums a few years ago with guys using raw drivers in place of car audio specific components." the idea itself is diminished, by the assertion that anyone who used raw drivers were in fact, crazy. Now, I've sort of looked at the hobby of raw drivers as a protected source, ever since I was buying horn tweeters and passive crossovers in the blue boxes at Radio Shack.

I didn't go for the Radio Shack's version of car audio product, but their home audio drivers sounded pretty good, in car or not.

so, the premise of what all the people on this site did in the past, is refuted by the owner of the site, that incongruity is what made me stop, and plug in to this one.

if it's not so, and due diligence (and recent posts, thanks ANT) says that there's more to the story, that's great and gratifying but I still don't consider it to be crazy to use raw drivers, even today in the great disposable era of throwaway Chinese goods and quality decreasing steadily by averages, when life cycles are part of the business stratagem, and end of life comes much closer to the warranty expiration date...


but whatever, it's a topic and I'm gonna discuss it, show me the door if I'm a bit too persnickety..
 

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I admit, it's a little accusatory to say the admin isn't showing due deference to the people that built this site, (and that's NOT me, I'm just a peephole) when he says that it's crazy to do exactly what people here have been doing for almost 10 years now, I guess some of you out there find this kind of debate unhealthy for the forum?

friction is just a little heat, at the end of my posts I'm not saying "take that!" or whatever, I'm engaged in a philosophical turn of cards. If someone takes offense for what I've posted or posed in this thread, how sensitive does it make them? From here, a tad...

:D
 

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and to answer the as-yet unanswered question by ANT, I feel I could create a passive network for myself if need be, and I have done so on several occasions but to say they were better than what the car audio components the manufacturers are capable of, not really.

It is hit and miss with the passives, way too much outside of the tables and graphs for the art to emerge, that a single person devising their own passive networks would be doing it for the love of the hobby more than their desire to one-up the manufacturer's efforts.

and I'm not saying the manufacturers necessarily "try" as hard as a dedicated home brew artisan, as some of the passive element selection leaves a lot to be desired, with no roll-off on several hard-coned midranges in the passive sets of leading company products, but on the whole they get a listenable result every time. That is a sticking point, what's good enough for the conglomerate like Harman's bean counter engineering on the mid-line stuff, or what the guy putting together the Mpyre stuff felt was cost-effective to make up some sets with low-playing tweeters, may not be good enough for others who want a little better performance out of their speaker purchase/installs.

That's something I'd bet a low percentage here would agree to being able to do, make a passive that sounds better than the stuff your average component set comes with, but then we're all active anyway, so in that context, we're all okay....


:D
 

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It's not unheard of for the component set makers to use off the shelf raw drivers.
May the "crazy" be with you, in a good way ;)

and there's THIS!

when SoundStream, in it's heyday, went looking for their reference level components, what did they do, build them? NO.

They bought them from ScanSpeak and rebadged them, like a person who wants better than the current state of the car audio art.

They weren't crazy.

:D

CDT got their stuff from VIFA, Alpine had the Scans as well, it's a common practice for car audio companies to raid the home speaker designer shelves for their reference product.

so, in a way, all the people who did the same here, can't be crazy, really..
 

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If you read the origional post I think it was autocorrected to say crazy anyways......its worded like craze was the intended word.......besides, it was just the man trying to creatively draw attention to the eBay links anyhow. Not saying anyone's right or wrong, and I get the feeling that there's always a lot more to the discussions I'm privilage to see coming from behind the scenes anyways. I pick up a lot of hostility between mods and some of the long time members here on a regular basis.
 

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:lurk:

I really loved the "crazed" days. I learned so much back then. I used to love reading the reviews on raw drivers. Learned what the driver numbers meant and if they would work in my applications. I've had my share of drivers that flat out did not belong in an automobile, but also came across drivers that were leaps and bounds better than main stream gear.

I have really come to appreciate Dayton gear. So affordable yet reliable with top tier SQ.

I have been away for a few years and coming back, this is such a different forum. It is obviously thriving and I'm happy for DIYMA. One thing I think this forum lacks now is reviews.
 

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I don't plan on throwing anybody under the bus but the "raw driver crowd" got pushed to the side a long time ago. Lots of new members came in voiced opinions. The Raw driver crowd would peek in, ask for logical thought process behind an opinion and an ensuing ban war would take place because the new membership was up in arms over a lot of legit questions.

Lycan, Wolf, and whatever other names he had came and went several times because of the trolling that took place due to opinions vs. calculated thought processes.

What few members remain from back then tend to keep their technical drivel to themselves these days. I miss it. A lot. I spent 3 years just reading this forum before I joined in 2009. It wasn't because I was intimidated...it was because I was learning so much and I didn't need to comment in order to find an answer.

Prime example is the term "rear fill" Wolf/Lycan went after this one. Subtract L-R, bandpass ~300hz thru ~3khz and add about 20ms of delay. Has anybody seen the comments to that thread? It's ridiculously long because nobody cared to read the thought process. Just a bunch of comments that equate to "rear fill is stupid!". Well Lycan pointed out that rear stereo is stupid and backed up his statements.

Npdang and the klippel is another nightmare I won't discuss.

But what all NEW members need to know is that this site was established on the foundation of DIY with RAW drivers. It was a huge epiphany to some to realize that the same raw drivers used in a $3k+ retail set could be had for $500.

I just wish I had the brain to continue a lot of the old discussions.
 

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Ah...
The confusion is in my spelling error.
I meant to type.. "There used to be a craze..."

Changes everything, huh?

ANT
thought you were calling me crazy!

heh, it does make a difference.

it is still a craze, though.

well, a long, well-reasoned, plateau of a craze but I get where you're coming from.

I didn't want to believe that the click-thru pennies was the impetus for poking the people that still believe... and I didn't have anything to do with lycan's exit at stage left, just to be sure nobody thinks that was my fault..


anyways, we're all a little bit crazy.


:)
 

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Just thought I'd pitch in. I've used car audio speakers before, but once I switched to raw drivers from home audio brands, ain't no way I'm going back.

Raw drivers offer far better value-to-performance, like Vifa, SEAS and Scan-Speak. Speakers from Micro Precision, Ground Zero Reference, Focal are waaaaaaay overpriced in my humble opinion.

Currently I'm using Scan Illuminators and they scare the hell out of other guys who use those aforementioned brands in their setup. The best part is the Illuminators, while not exactly cheap, cost a fraction of say Micro P Studio Z speakers.

Sorry to digress. But as for putting together a crossover (I run pure passive, BTW), yes they can be expensive depending on the components, but the upsides are great:

1) You save on amplification channels. All I use is one Arc Audio 2150SE for my entire soundstage. So instead of spending lots on another high-end amp or two, the money goes into the crossover components.

2) Once you get good components like Duelund, Mundorf, etc. the sound is like nothing a full-active system can achieve. You get timbral accuracy, tonality, and a sound quality that is organic to the ear.

Anyhoo, this is all IMHO. Here are some pics of the Scans in my setup and the crossover. Peace out, and enjoy the music : )
 

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- active yes but custom panels are made to the shape of a drivers and not all drives share the same size
Even though I was using HAT L3's at the time, when I built my kicks I built them to be able to house up to a 130mm driver. I actually went thru Parts Express and Madisound and looked up the dimensions of many of the 4's and 4.5's so that I could build them to fit the largest of them. This allows me the opertunity to try a large amount of drivers without worrying about making new kicks ;). Even the Dayton RS125 if I wanted too. Currently I have replaced the L3's with Peerless HDS 4's. These are my first true raw drivers.
 
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