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Discussion Starter #1
Blew one tweeter - hertz ht25 (part of the hsk 165 component set). I've been using some Polk MM tweets while looking for a replacement(s). There are several I like, but their not in the budget currently so I did quite a bit of research on "bargain" tweeters. One that seemed to be consistently liked (and performed well when tested) is the ViVA (now HT25. There are several HT 25 models and there have been manufacturing/name changes since some of the VIVA xt 25 (now peerless) reviews. In any event, I decided to order the SC40, the flangeless model, in spite of some variations in the T/S parameters from the xt25sc90 (fully flanged smaller version of the xt25tg30) and the even larger bg60. I'm not the super expert on interpreting t/s parameters, but it seemed to me that the flangeless xt25 would require a higher x-over point, among other differences.

Put them in the a pillars of my 03 g35 coupe, powered with 65w channel, active - crossed at 3.2k @24, left tweet about 30 degrees of axis, rt - almost on axis and started listening. Adjusted the x-over point and slope up and down, steep, shallow, aimed them all over the place, tried small wave guides on them, etc. etc., but BOTTOM LINE: they pretty much sucked, at least IMO. The hertz ht25 tweeters - active - 3.2 to 5hz, slope - 12 to 24 (I didnt' like them on the passive's at all), in the a pillars, pointed almost directly across at each other, blew them away. The polk's (same basic set up as the Hertz') sound much better.

So... am I missing something?? Where to go from here?

I have a pair of lightly used hertz passive crossovers (2w.10) from the hsk 165 component set (and one ht25 tweeter plus some unused grills for the 6.5 mids) that I would be willing to trade for some decent tweeters.
 

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Maybe they’ll sound better after break in.
My go to budget tweeter is TBI HDSS. There are a few sets left on Amazon. $25 a pair.
I’m in the same boat with my new to me Audison AV1.1’s...but I think I need to explore more in axis.


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Well, the Vifa ring radiators are a funny tweeter. They have a pretty natural and articulate sound to them and MUST be aimed on axis according to me and countless others that have used them. They don't splatter like buckshot and a loose choke. They shoot like a precision rifle. These two qualities can make the tweeter sound too refined and not have enough sparkle to them. I'd be willing to bet you're missing the sparkle (possibly unnatural at that) the other tweeters probably had and probably had a wider dispersion pattern too.

And tweeters absolutely DO need to break in. Just give them a couple weeks.
 

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Maybe they’ll sound better after break in.
My go to budget tweeter is TBI HDSS. There are a few sets left on Amazon. $25 a pair.
I’m in the same boat with my new to me Audison AV1.1’s...but I think I need to explore more in axis.


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tweeters dont break in. There is not really any suspension to break in, plus they are almost always crossed well above resonance. What you hear is pretty much what you get with tweeters and small midranges
 

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tweeters dont break in. There is not really any suspension to break in, plus they are almost always crossed well above resonance. What you hear is pretty much what you get with tweeters and small midranges
Then why did my LPG aluminum tweets smooth out after several hours of playing? Or was that more of ears getting used to them?
 

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Or was that more of ears getting used to them?
this. break in is simple. Above resonance, a drivers motor is purely what controls the moving mass. Near, at, and below resonance, the suspension takes over. This is why there is so much distortion when a driver approaches resonance. The motor also does not "break in" as you know, only the suspension. But to reiterate, the suspension on acts on the moving mass when playing around its resonance. For a tweeter, that is pretty much never. small mids, say a GB25. Most people cross them at 300+ hz, but it has an FS of 170hz. If crossed at 300hz with a 24db slope, itll pretty much hardly ever play anything near its FS. That wont have a break in either. A midbass that you cross at 80hz but it has an fs of 60hz, that will have a slight break in. A subwoofer with an FS of 28 but you play it with no high pass filter, that will definitely have a break in.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Has anyone hear both the flanged 90 and the flangeless 40 (the one I got)? As far as the specs go, there is a fairly substantial difference in the fs. I'm crossing them high enough that it shouldn't be an issue, I would think. Or is the difference a result of characteristics of the tweeter that might result in a decrease in overall performance, perhaps related to moving their production to china?

Perhaps I should return the flangeless and get the 90 with the flange? Or should I try the full size version? Anyone installed the larger xt's in a car?

Thanks for all the responses.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Anyone as to the difference, if any, between the two different models and whether the differences would result any any appreciable difference in sq?

I definitely agree that tuning could be contributing to the issues I'm having with the xt's and with my system in general. I have spent countless hours trying to learn everything I can about this hobby, trying different configurations, combinations of components, making attempts to tune my system etc. Although I have spent so much time and I'm a reasonably intelligent person, the bottom line is that I have done everything myself on this system and I do not have the experience or necessary tools to ensure that my system is good as it can be. I bought an 86 325es BMW in 1991 from a neighbor. It had $800 alpine components (pretty expensive back then), 2 punch 150's and 2 punch 8" subs installed IB on particle board in the trunk. Some good components, but a hack job install, sounded like sht. After I bought it I took it to a guy who just got his BS in electrical engineering and was opening his own car stereo shop. I think I was his first customer. I traded in one of the punch 150's and paid I think $300 cash. He spent several days on the car. He installed 2 10" jl audio w0's I believe they were in a custom enclosure, re-did the crossover network and tuned and returned it until he was satisfied that it was perfect. I still remember how I felt when I heard the system for the first time. I was f'n blown way. That's what I want out of my current system.

Thank you for all of your suggestions.
 

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Do you have them in a baffle or in the door?

Without a baffle you're going to get a peak and a dip in the response due to the step.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Have then in pvc "cones" and have been moving them around to test. Right now they are "stuck" in the hole left by the previous tweets in the a pillar plastic trim piece about 3-4 inches up from the dash, about mid point in the width of the trim aimed as much on axis as possible. Before that, I had them taped in the corners of the windshield firing diagonally (drivers tweet approx towards passenger and vice versa) aimed a little up (well actually moved it around).

I know what a baffle is, but I'm not sure I understand what you mean with respect to these tweets. I'm not sure how I would go about securing them to a baffle.

I was trying to include a pic or a link to this specific xt 25 model, the sc40 (it does not have a flange), but I don't see a way to do it in my reply.

Thank you.
 

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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
That's weird, when I was replying the last time, from my phone, I didn't have the toolbar which includes the little paperclip thingy icon which is, of course, is to attach stuff.

I checked out the seas tweeter recommended above. They look good.
 

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this. break in is simple. Above resonance, a drivers motor is purely what controls the moving mass. Near, at, and below resonance, the suspension takes over. This is why there is so much distortion when a driver approaches resonance. The motor also does not "break in" as you know, only the suspension. But to reiterate, the suspension on acts on the moving mass when playing around its resonance. For a tweeter, that is pretty much never. small mids, say a GB25. Most people cross them at 300+ hz, but it has an FS of 170hz. If crossed at 300hz with a 24db slope, itll pretty much hardly ever play anything near its FS. That wont have a break in either. A midbass that you cross at 80hz but it has an fs of 60hz, that will have a slight break in. A subwoofer with an FS of 28 but you play it with no high pass filter, that will definitely have a break in.


I dunno about that - when I bought the Utopia 3w2 I played it at home because the car wasn’t ready for them. I measured them on my RTA and saved the curve - 40hours later or about 5 days later with 10 hours a day play time the sound did change the mids sounded warmer. I measured them again and according to the RTA there was a definite change in frequency response.

All measured at the point used the same content and same power.

The mids definitely sounded different after 5 days of play.

So I think mids do break in and do require some play time. According to my RTA....

Tweeters I don’t really know to be honest but it does have a moving mass so I guess the suspension does loosen up ever so slightly and probably does break in - maybe the break in is subtle so it’s not really noticeable to most?

I just bought the Utopia M’s so I’ll do a exercise to measure them before and after to ascertain if play time did anything or not to them....

Btw I used the crossblock at home... now active.


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Re: Very Dissapointed by the Peerless XT25SC40 "flangeless" Tweeter

I dunno about that -
I do know about that. Its basic understanding of how speakers work.

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Re: Very Dissapointed by the Peerless XT25SC40 "flangeless" Tweeter

I do know about that. Its basic understanding of how speakers work.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


So the difference in measurements is due to what? The nature of the sound changed because of what?

I thought we are all about measuring here?

Any rate you have your opinion I have mine... if I get the inclination to build test boxes for the Utopias and setup the Helix Pro and a 4 channel amp I’ll measure before and after...

For shits and giggles...


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Re: Very Dissapointed by the Peerless XT25SC40 "flangeless" Tweeter

So the difference in measurements is due to what? The nature of the sound changed because of what?

I thought we are all about measuring here?

Any rate you have your opinion I have mine... if I get the inclination to build test boxes for the Utopias and setup the Helix Pro and a 4 channel amp I’ll measure before and after...

For shits and giggles...


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Temperature, humidity, measurement technique, etc etc.. let's face it, your measurements aren't going to be exactly the same conditions. A lot of stuff can change in 5 days. Plus, the frequency response as a whole won't change from break in. Only the areas near its resonant frequency, and it'll be linear.

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They sound amazing. You just need to tune them. The small flanged version is in my reference bookshelves. You just may not like the sound..Play pink noise on a rta and see the response.

Theres a pair of the seas textile for $50 on ebay too. The TBI are also good. If you like bright tweeters, I have some of the mb quart/ german maestro 40mm widespheres which sound amazing if you tune it well. But the xt25 is an amazing tweeter.

also these

https://www.ebay.com/itm/pair-alpine-HIEND-28MM-dome-car-tweeter-4ohm-50W-vifa-XT25-PK-scanspeak-seas/222186264721?hash=item33bb555891:g:2jsAAOSwUKxYc-nE

but theyre similar.

What exactly dont you like?

I have like 10 pairs of tweets laying around if needed but theres so many good tweeter options
 

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