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Thank you once again, great info!

Also on the boxes if it doesn’t hurt them too much try to limit a second 15 to about 5 cubes each if possible? Even less would be great if it didn’t make a really noticeable difference.

Its strange to me the SQL 12s need such a small box and the 15s fairly large for size but I guess it’s nowhere near the Brahama 15 you listed. I’m not sure if you planned to model any 15 Brahamas again but remember there is a 1500w version Brahama for both 12-15” but I don’t know how much it would change the specs. The TS specs look very close to me.

Also since I’m still learning , why would the SQL 15s need more power then the 12s to be optimal? On the specs it shows the 12 has a higher MMS which I find odd. So I’d imagine if anything it would be the opposite.

I was so close to ordering those (2) SQL 12s with the sale but kept putting it off wondering if I could do better and I guess the sale ended at midnight. Oh well. They’re still an option but now the 15s seem like the better deal. I still only plan to run 2k max and likely a little less starting out. It’s very possible I’ll end up with a bigger alt in the future to run at least 3k. But doubt I’d go past that. if I did it wouldn’t be much.
 

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After going over the numbers a bit more I believe I could do 11 cubes for (2) 15s if it helps and possibly 12 if it’s needed but more would be a little more difficult. The (2) 12s would allow me to keep my back seats up but a single 15 for now with an additional later is very tempting. Really Curious how the Tumult 15s compare to the SQL and Brahama X but imagine the SQL still may be the winner.
 

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Thank you once again, great info!

Also on the boxes if it doesn’t hurt them too much try to limit a second 15 to about 5 cubes each if possible? Even less would be great if it didn’t make a really noticeable difference.

Its strange to me the SQL 12s need such a small box and the 15s fairly large for size but I guess it’s nowhere near the Brahama 15 you listed. I’m not sure if you planned to model any 15 Brahamas again but remember there is a 1500w version Brahama for both 12-15” but I don’t know how much it would change the specs. The TS specs look very close to me.

Also since I’m still learning , why would the SQL 15s need more power then the 12s to be optimal? On the specs it shows the 12 has a higher MMS which I find odd. So I’d imagine if anything it would be the opposite.

I was so close to ordering those (2) SQL 12s with the sale but kept putting it off wondering if I could do better and I guess the sale ended at midnight. Oh well. They’re still an option but now the 15s seem like the better deal. I still only plan to run 2k max and likely a little less starting out. It’s very possible I’ll end up with a bigger alt in the future to run at least 3k. But doubt I’d go past that. if I did it wouldn’t be much.
I'm going to be replying to each of these separately so I don't miss anything.

Big, high power ported boxes are hard to model to a specific requirement without getting in to the actual design - you run in to the port taking up so much cuft inside the enclosure that it's up to the box builder to make sure that it can work. The model comparison I'm working on will be optimal for each driver complement at the requested 28 Hz tuning point. Once we figure out which one you're interested in we'll work out the port details and make sure it's possible or if we need to fiddle with the tuning.

I'll try to model both Brahma's if I can find the T/S Specs.

The amount of power it takes is entirely related to what it actually takes to drive the cone to excursion limits (70% BL in most cases is considered the limit before you start to induce distortion) versus how much power they can "Handle" which is related to damping, Q and overtravel before mechanical limiting. With the SQLs the 12 has higher mms which lowers the resonance frequency but then makes up for that with more BL to move the heavier cone. The 15 has more surface area which lowers the resonance to begin with so the cone doesn't need to be as heavy so the BL is lower meaning it takes more power to create the same magnetic field that the 12 does with less power. This is where WinISD becomes invaluable because it 'estimates' the excursion based on the T/S Specs with very respectable accuracy and you can tailor the box, filters and tuning point to optimize the output for any driver with any given wattage.

Your amplifier starting at 2kW is a good starting point for these woofers - especially if it's a reputable 1/2 Bridge design cause most of them will be strappable so you can double up by either strapping together to create a Full Bridge (depending on impedance capabilities) or simply doubling up on the amplifiers to maintain the 1/2 Bridge topology and running at a higher impedance for better damping and efficiency. (We haven't discussed that yet but the higher the impedance the less electrical demand and the better the efficiency "usually"...) So keep in mind that the higher the final impedance you run the better the "SQ" in theory - it's debatable if you can hear the difference if all other factors are maintained (ie same power at 1 Ohm and 2 Ohms to each woofer.)
 

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My installation of WinISD already had a Tumult 18D2 in the database - not sure where it came from but it looks plausible based on the Tumult 15D2 so it's included in this run. The box the 18 needs is HUGE and putting it down to 11 cubes at 28Hz makes it VERY peaky and likely VERY hard to actually make work so once I've finished explaining all this we'll see if it's actually feasible to put the 18 in the space you have.

Model Run at 2,000 Watts Total - Enclosure sizes in the Project Titles:
  1. Green Trace = Dual SQL12 : 120.6 dB
  2. Blue Trace = Single SQL15 : 123.1 dB
  3. Purple Trace = Dual SQL15 : 126.1 dB
  4. Red Trace = Dual Brahma12 : 122.3 dB
  5. Orange Trace = Single Brahma15 : 125.2 dB
  6. Yellow Trace = Single BrahmaX15: 125.2 dB
  7. White Trace = Single Tumult 18 : 128.2 dB
  8. Pink Trace = Single Tumult 15 : 123.5 dB
1920 x 1080 Screenshot so you'll have to blow it up to really see the line colors.
All of these are under excursion limits (the previous Brahma 15 was a V1 - sorry.)
307565


Same model run but each driver pushed to excursion limits:
307569


The dual SQL15 jumps to the top but that's at 8kW and you were right about the 12s taking more power ported because the combination of port gain and the concurrent reduction in excursion at port tuning they can take a huge bump in power before hitting excursion limits (almost 12kW combined) but I'd never try to push that through them long term.

The Tumult 18 hits excursion limit at 3kW and since you've already expressed a desire to not go over that power level I'm going to spend some time looking at box design to see what would actually work given this driver's specs since it's at the top of both comparison runs. Right now it's between the Tumult 18 and the Dual SQL15.

For reference though - both of the Dual SQL Models have the best SQ curve followed by the Dual Brahma12s. The Tumult 18 needs a HUGE box and going this much smaller is gonna make it peaky and need taming with DSP.
 

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So it's possible to do one Tumult 18 in the space you have (... I think ... and this is based on specs that might be outdated... so ymmv) but it's 10 cuft net internal and external dimensions are: 32" × 24" × 31" or something similar to that anyway. The box is so big that tuning it to 28 Hz even with 66 sqin of port surface area is not hard: Tumult 18 SubBoxPro

But keep in mind the Tumult 18 is only ahead of the Dual SQL15 by 1.8dB at peak and that's entirely due to box gain from being in too small of a box. The Dual SQL15 is flatter, has better extension below port tuning and doesn't need as much Infrasonic filtering as the Tumult 18 does... if you were to actually calculate the area under the curve for each model they are in a dead heat and that's pushing the 18 to it's limits whereas the Dual SQL15 is well under it's limits...

And the Dual SQL15 Box is at least 1 cubic foot smaller: Dual SQL15 SubBoxPro

307570
 

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Easiest way is by size. The ½ bridge amp is usually twice the size cause you have to double the output fets since they're at half the voltage.

But unless they specify it takes a gutshot to know for sure.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
Thank you!
 

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Thank You once again! I’ve learnt a lot by going over your posts so far and greatly appreciate your time.

The 18” Adire has is a Brahama instead of Tumult so I’d say that was from the older ones many years ago but is still interesting to compare and gives me a general idea. I wish they listed its specs as I have a feeling it would outperform the Tumult since the 15” Brahama does slightly.

To me the 15” drivers look to be the clear winners and even a single looks to outperform (2) 12”s. I hate to ask more of you but I’d love to see how (2) 15” Brahamas And Brahama X compared with the (2) 15” SQLs. Because a single Brahama 15 looks to outperform the single 15” SQL in these charts.

I’m just a little worried about the enclosure size and wonder how much they would suffer with around 11.5-12 cubes for both. If I was willing to give up all space for groceries/storage etc I could do the 14-15 cubes but would hate to do that. I think I’ve narrowed it down to either the 15” SQL or 15” Brahama or 15” Brahama XL to allow more power down the road if it doesn’t hurt me much on 1800-2k for now. So those 3 are what I’d love to see more on if possible. And how the (2) Brahama 15s compare in 11.5-12 cubes vs 14-14.5 or whatever is optimal.
 

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Also on amps is there any downside in clamping (2) 1 ohm stable amps like a Sundown 1500 to run 3000 at 2 ohms?
Right now I have a SSA Icon 15” I picked up last month just to have something for now and it’s on a kicker 1200 at 2 ohms. I love the idea of running at 2 ohms for the extra efficiency but I don’t know of any good half bridge amps that put out 2-3k at 2 ohms unless I buy twice the size I need or clamp (2) smaller amps together.

Kicker has some but I don’t believe they are as good as the newer Sundowns or IA etc. and believe all the newer ones like mine are made in China and have a lot lower dampening as well but they do put out rated power or more.
I like the idea of getting a single 15” to run for now to test and then buy another in a few months. So if I was to buy a 1500-2k amp I could buy a 2 ohm sub and run the single sub at 1 ohm then pick up another to run both at 2 ohm with another identical bridged amp. But that’s possibly more complication then it’s worth and just buying (2) 15” to start with is likely the best option and saves me from building multiple boxes.

If there is a downside to strapping (2) amps together then I’d just assume run at 1 ohm or splurge and get a 4-6k amp to run at 2 ohm on half power. All the extra efficiency I can get would be wonderful.

At 1200rms now on stock 100amp alt and a tiny battery the voltage is usually 12.5-13.2ish and rarely goes lower then 12.5. I plan to do the Big 3 soon since I have the wiring and buy a big AGM for up front and am hoping that may let me get 1500-2000rms. I am still searching for alternator options and will likely upgrade eventually but it may be a cheaper upgrade since I don’t see any options for my vehicle on the more expensive brands people seem to like. With a bigger alt I believe I can pull well over 2k and possibly even 3k or more. But I’m not looking for crazy loud so 1500-2000rms is likely plenty unless I grow used to it and crave more.
 

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I hate to keep adding to my long posts but before I forget how much port area is usually best for these roughly? I usually try to calculate around 15.5-16in per cube on that sub box builder site but with really big boxes like 7-8 cubes per 15 wouldn’t that be a bit much?

I’ve read some places say a bigger box doesn’t need much more port area then the same sub in a smaller box. An example a 15” Brahama in 5 cubes with 80 sq in of port for 16in per cube. Does the same sub in a 8 cube box need 128 sq in for 16in per cube or would say 100 be plenty for 12.5 per cube since it’s still a lot more then it was getting with the smaller box?
 

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Thank You once again! I’ve learnt a lot by going over your posts so far and greatly appreciate your time.

The 18” Adire has is a Brahama instead of Tumult so I’d say that was from the older ones many years ago but is still interesting to compare and gives me a general idea. I wish they listed its specs as I have a feeling it would outperform the Tumult since the 15” Brahama does slightly.

To me the 15” drivers look to be the clear winners and even a single looks to outperform (2) 12”s. I hate to ask more of you but I’d love to see how (2) 15” Brahamas And Brahama X compared with the (2) 15” SQLs. Because a single Brahama 15 looks to outperform the single 15” SQL in these charts.

I’m just a little worried about the enclosure size and wonder how much they would suffer with around 11.5-12 cubes for both. If I was willing to give up all space for groceries/storage etc I could do the 14-15 cubes but would hate to do that. I think I’ve narrowed it down to either the 15” SQL or 15” Brahama or 15” Brahama XL to allow more power down the road if it doesn’t hurt me much on 1800-2k for now. So those 3 are what I’d love to see more on if possible. And how the (2) Brahama 15s compare in 11.5-12 cubes vs 14-14.5 or whatever is optimal.
Yes - the Tumult 18 is apparently no longer in production and the Brahma 18 would likely be more akin to it's 15" sibling so the Tumult 18 is just an excercise more than anything. If you can get ahold of Adire by email or text and get the T/S Specs I'm sure everyone would greatly appreciate your time.

Physics says that 2x15 will beat a Single 18 every time since there's 28% more cone area on the two 15s.
 

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So - continuing to increase the enclosure size but keeping the port tuning the same causes the peak velocity in the port to go up in frequency. When you change box size away from optimal then you should also use the port tuning to try and keep the port velocities in check and keep the peak velocity as low as possible enabling smaller port area and less chance of turbulence within the port from the pressure waves crashing into each other. This leads us to recommend different port tunings for every change in enclosure volume and it's not a one for one ratio. Keep in mind that tuning a box the size you are considering down to 20-22 Hz is not uncommon (especially in SQ) and will keep you from having to tame the box with your DSP later on - the flatter the response from the box the easier it will be to tune in your car. The idea that you don't want to tune that low in a car environment is a myth from the SPL days where everyone wanted to eek out that last tenth of a dB from the Box cause it was way easier to gain 3dB from the Box tuning than it was to double the power.

Having said all of that and with your stated desire to not go over 3kW then the regular Brahma should be fine and the X actually models the same as the regular one but only increases the power handling by 30% which you won't notice unless you run it WFO all the time (but there's also no reason you can't use the "X" model either since they model identically and have the exact same SPL up to the mechanical limits - it will give you more headroom for later if you decide to go over 3kW but either model will handle 3kW daily.)

So no more SQL for now - here's the Brahma Rainbow Model Run:
307683

Enclosure sizes and Tuning in project titles - each iteration intended to maintain as much SQ as possible. Then the 12 cubes at 28 Hz thrown on top in white to show how peaky and SPL oriented it is along with the fact that it moves peak velocity up in the octave dramatically: (all ports are identical at 80 sqin)
307684

So it's the inverse of what you were mentioning earlier - the bigger the box the higher the port velocity but if you move the tuning point down as box size increases then the peak velocity moves down as well till it's actually becoming infrasonic and the slope on the rising wavefront becomes gradual enough below 20 Hz that you don't have to worry as much about port noise there (and due to the lack of fundamental content.) I've never put any stock in saying that a given box needs a given port area because port velocity is directly proportional to Vd (Volume of Displacment) so a 12 cube box with 2 x 15 @ 68mm p2p excursion is gonna need WAY more port area than 12 cubes with 1 x 18 @ 12mm HE PA Subs.
 

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Also on amps is there any downside in clamping (2) 1 ohm stable amps like a Sundown 1500 to run 3000 at 2 ohms?
Right now I have a SSA Icon 15” I picked up last month just to have something for now and it’s on a kicker 1200 at 2 ohms. I love the idea of running at 2 ohms for the extra efficiency but I don’t know of any good half bridge amps that put out 2-3k at 2 ohms unless I buy twice the size I need or clamp (2) smaller amps together.

Kicker has some but I don’t believe they are as good as the newer Sundowns or IA etc. and believe all the newer ones like mine are made in China and have a lot lower dampening as well but they do put out rated power or more.
I like the idea of getting a single 15” to run for now to test and then buy another in a few months. So if I was to buy a 1500-2k amp I could buy a 2 ohm sub and run the single sub at 1 ohm then pick up another to run both at 2 ohm with another identical bridged amp. But that’s possibly more complication then it’s worth and just buying (2) 15” to start with is likely the best option and saves me from building multiple boxes.

If there is a downside to strapping (2) amps together then I’d just assume run at 1 ohm or splurge and get a 4-6k amp to run at 2 ohm on half power. All the extra efficiency I can get would be wonderful.

At 1200rms now on stock 100amp alt and a tiny battery the voltage is usually 12.5-13.2ish and rarely goes lower then 12.5. I plan to do the Big 3 soon since I have the wiring and buy a big AGM for up front and am hoping that may let me get 1500-2000rms. I am still searching for alternator options and will likely upgrade eventually but it may be a cheaper upgrade since I don’t see any options for my vehicle on the more expensive brands people seem to like. With a bigger alt I believe I can pull well over 2k and possibly even 3k or more. But I’m not looking for crazy loud so 1500-2000rms is likely plenty unless I grow used to it and crave more.
Strapping - if an amp is strappable then that means it's a half-bridge topology because strapping two amps together makes them one full-bridge amp. This also means that if the original half-bridge is one ohm stable then the strapping of two amps together will make the end result only 2 ohm stable. Sundown SALT (and many other competition grade Amps) are stable to below 1 Ohm so strapping them and running them down to 1 Ohm is usually not a problem. But all of this goes back to the original discussion about increasing efficiency and damping and SQ, etc. by running at higher impedances and maintaining the half-bridge topology for better current supply. The downside comes from figuring out if you're willing to compromise on the topology for the sake of continuing to use the same amp plus it's twin strapped or going whole hog and buying the half-bridge amp you want to start with and running it at half it's rated output till you buy the second Sub.

Me personally, I hate building something and then taking it apart or changing it as I've generally done other things around that design (like power cables and speaker cables and such) that are cut to length and the cost and complexity of changing all that almost always makes me wish I would have started with the whole monte to begin with... and with the cost of plywood and materials what it is now it makes that decision even easier for me.

Good half-bridge amplifiers (without getting into $$$$): DC Audio, B2 Audio or Sundown SALT and then there's Crescendo, CT Sounds, Atomic and quite a few others that I've seen work but don't know much about...

You could use 2 x RF2500 Power Amps with D2 Subs and run them at 1500 Watts in to 4 Ohms each for some really killer efficiency and damping - then when you want to investigate you can BDSync (RF speak for strapping) and run them as one at 5kW into 2 Ohms via parallel/series connection. Or buy one SALT6K from the Amp Lab used and be done with it... :whistle:

To each his own but for me I always get an amp bigger than I need for the whatever the ultimate end game is and try to do it right the first time... notice I said try! ;)
 

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I believe I've talked myself into getting a new HO alternator so I can run more power if I wish to and open up my options a bit more. Most places don't offer any for my specific vehicle but I believe they have ones that will work. JS Alternators has a 300A one for around $400 that says it will fit. My second best option may be a Singer 320A for $530 but it doesn't say it fits so I would have to e-mail and ask.

If I get a HO Alt and big AGM for up front I could probably run 3-4k fairly easy? Possibly more with a second battery. I still don't see myself ever really going above 3-4k, but the more I grow used to the bass the more I may want.

Anyways on the amps what I was meaning to ask was if you strap (2) amps together for a 2 ohm load do they get higher efficiency then if they were running at 1 ohm by themselves since they are at 2 ohm? Or is efficiency basically the same as they would be at 1 ohm?

For amps I don't mind paying for a good one I can use long term but am not looking to overpay to have the best of the best either. I really like the specs on the Sundown both SALT and their older models like SAE/SAZ, etc. And the Incriminator Audio IA amps. The IA amps seem to have nearly equal specs as the Sundown for about 30% off. But I would likely keep an eye out for a good used one to save some cash.

On size I love the idea of buying a 6k and running it at 2 ohm for 3k RMS but it may almost be cheaper to invest the extra money into better electrical and just buy a regular 3-4k amp instead. I don't have any interest in running at half ohm. At this much power I may very well decide on sealed if I try it out and enjoy it more then ported. The output should be plenty for me regardless I would imagine.
 

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Anyways back to the subs... I plan to watch some tutorials on WinISD here in the next few days and learn how to run it myself so I can stop bugging you and do my own and maybe have you help me finalize some stuff when the time comes. I'd also like to be able to help out friends with their own designs and others online as well like you're doing. I enjoy modeling things like that if I knew how to do it.

Is there a website online where you can download updated TS specs for modern subwoofers so you don't have to enter them yourself? I downloaded WinISD the other night and the specs in it for some of the subs I messed with weren't the same as listed on the websites for the newer ones. And when trying to enter in my own subwoofers there were so many TS specs I couldn't find listed and I had no clue what to enter. I'm hoping a tutorial will help with this but it would be great to be able to download the specs already so you know you aren't messing them up somehow. Or perhaps a place where screenshots are taken of the specs already entered so you can copy them yourself.

On the Brahama rainbow as you call it - It appears that if you were to tune higher like I had planned then a smaller box would be optimal for SQ? And the 28hz at 8 cubes was better then 28hz at 12 cubes? I know the cure is much flatter, but I wonder how the more peaky 12 cubes would sound compared to a flatter curve. I am so new to this I have no references to go off from. And I know you say in the SQ world 28hz is on the high end, but wouldn't tuning really low like 20-24hz really sacrifice the top end? Meaning most hip hop bass in the 40-50hz range. I love the lower frequencies but hate to give up so much on the top end where most of the frequencies would be played.

I think the best option for me is to buy a good set of 15" subs after comparing some more models and build 3 different boxes. One sealed, one tuned low for optimal SQ like 20-24hz and then a third box around 28hz and then deciding which I like the best. A lot of work for sure but in the long run it may be the only way to tell what I really like the best.

For subs if I go with 15"s I still need to compare a bit more to make up my mind. Is there any reason you didn't include the SQL in these last ones? I really wonder how 2 of the SQL and 2 Brahama X would compare on the same graph. From going off both graphs it appears the SQL has a flatter more SQ oriented curve then the Brahama but the Brahama may have more output? I also didn't realize you could run that much extra power to them daily without frying them. Especially the SQL since they are only rated at 1k but can take so much more. I'd be listening to bass heavy songs so they would be getting used pretty hard.

At that much power maybe even one of the higher end subs like the Kali 15-18" from Adire would be worth looking into. I just never even considered them since they were out of my power range before. I would also consider other subs if they had a chance of competing like the Idmax, or Fi Q, some IA subs, etc. Just not sure those or any others can really top the Brahama or SQL as far as SQ and output are concerned.
 

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I believe I've talked myself into getting a new HO alternator so I can run more power if I wish to and open up my options a bit more. Most places don't offer any for my specific vehicle but I believe they have ones that will work. JS Alternators has a 300A one for around $400 that says it will fit. My second best option may be a Singer 320A for $530 but it doesn't say it fits so I would have to e-mail and ask.

If I get a HO Alt and big AGM for up front I could probably run 3-4k fairly easy? Possibly more with a second battery. I still don't see myself ever really going above 3-4k, but the more I grow used to the bass the more I may want.

Anyways on the amps what I was meaning to ask was if you strap (2) amps together for a 2 ohm load do they get higher efficiency then if they were running at 1 ohm by themselves since they are at 2 ohm? Or is efficiency basically the same as they would be at 1 ohm?

For amps I don't mind paying for a good one I can use long term but am not looking to overpay to have the best of the best either. I really like the specs on the Sundown both SALT and their older models like SAE/SAZ, etc. And the Incriminator Audio IA amps. The IA amps seem to have nearly equal specs as the Sundown for about 30% off. But I would likely keep an eye out for a good used one to save some cash.

On size I love the idea of buying a 6k and running it at 2 ohm for 3k RMS but it may almost be cheaper to invest the extra money into better electrical and just buy a regular 3-4k amp instead. I don't have any interest in running at half ohm. At this much power I may very well decide on sealed if I try it out and enjoy it more then ported. The output should be plenty for me regardless I would imagine.
HO Alternator + AGM Starting + SuperCap = HUGE power so going without the SuperCap for now will definitely open you up to 3k RMS and the possibility of going bigger in the future.

The Strapping of 2 Amps does not change efficiency - it's just 2 amps combined in to one at the same efficiency but now it's only capable of the combined impedance load since that's based on Current capacity of the power supply and the output mosfets. Doesn't hurt efficiency but doesn't help either.

IA and Sundown are pretty much on par with one another. Sundown easier to find used but that's cause I'm in the Carolinas.
 

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Anyways back to the subs... I plan to watch some tutorials on WinISD here in the next few days and learn how to run it myself so I can stop bugging you and do my own and maybe have you help me finalize some stuff when the time comes. I'd also like to be able to help out friends with their own designs and others online as well like you're doing. I enjoy modeling things like that if I knew how to do it.

Is there a website online where you can download updated TS specs for modern subwoofers so you don't have to enter them yourself? I downloaded WinISD the other night and the specs in it for some of the subs I messed with weren't the same as listed on the websites for the newer ones. And when trying to enter in my own subwoofers there were so many TS specs I couldn't find listed and I had no clue what to enter. I'm hoping a tutorial will help with this but it would be great to be able to download the specs already so you know you aren't messing them up somehow. Or perhaps a place where screenshots are taken of the specs already entered so you can copy them yourself.

On the Brahama rainbow as you call it - It appears that if you were to tune higher like I had planned then a smaller box would be optimal for SQ? And the 28hz at 8 cubes was better then 28hz at 12 cubes? I know the cure is much flatter, but I wonder how the more peaky 12 cubes would sound compared to a flatter curve. I am so new to this I have no references to go off from. And I know you say in the SQ world 28hz is on the high end, but wouldn't tuning really low like 20-24hz really sacrifice the top end? Meaning most hip hop bass in the 40-50hz range. I love the lower frequencies but hate to give up so much on the top end where most of the frequencies would be played.

I think the best option for me is to buy a good set of 15" subs after comparing some more models and build 3 different boxes. One sealed, one tuned low for optimal SQ like 20-24hz and then a third box around 28hz and then deciding which I like the best. A lot of work for sure but in the long run it may be the only way to tell what I really like the best.

For subs if I go with 15"s I still need to compare a bit more to make up my mind. Is there any reason you didn't include the SQL in these last ones? I really wonder how 2 of the SQL and 2 Brahama X would compare on the same graph. From going off both graphs it appears the SQL has a flatter more SQ oriented curve then the Brahama but the Brahama may have more output? I also didn't realize you could run that much extra power to them daily without frying them. Especially the SQL since they are only rated at 1k but can take so much more. I'd be listening to bass heavy songs so they would be getting used pretty hard.

At that much power maybe even one of the higher end subs like the Kali 15-18" from Adire would be worth looking into. I just never even considered them since they were out of my power range before. I would also consider other subs if they had a chance of competing like the Idmax, or Fi Q, some IA subs, etc. Just not sure those or any others can really top the Brahama or SQL as far as SQ and output are concerned.
WinISD is not as hard as it first appears once you get comfortable with it ... the biggest mistake that people make is having the incorrect units selected when entering T/S Specs (mfr specs VAS in cuft but you have liters selected in the input window or Sd in cm^2 versus in^2) and trying to put in TOO much information. WinISD will auto-calculate parameters as you enter them and if the number you are trying to enter differs from the auto-calculated value then you might have the units spec'd incorrectly.

There are tons of videos and tutorials out there. Loudspeaker database has a bunch of drivers that you can download but it's not being kept up to date either - always best to go back to the mfr and get latest specs.

Yes, the Brahma does better at 8 cubes for 28Hz for SQ but as you said, you may prefer the peaky enclosure so the multiple construction may be necessary. As for the upper bass region, the smaller the box the more you're gonna get above tuning. Notice how the white line has less output above tuning than the smaller 8 cube box. Then you've got cabin gain that's not easily modeled 100% accurately so YMMV versus what the model predicts.

The SQL is only an option if you can accommodate pushing more power - the Brahma is a better choice at 3-5k RMS but if you can push 6k+ then 2 x SQL15 will be better (and more affordable.) The SQL was removed from the Rainbow so it didn't get confusing as I wanted you to understand the whole bigger is not always better approach in sealed.

As for Fi vs IA vs SI vs AA and SQ - at the kind of output level you're considering you won't notice much difference in actual SQ and any of them is a good choice - it will all come down to what power level you want to shoot for, budget and box size. The SQL needs big power and smallest box. Brahma is best compromise at lower power. Fi big power and big box with arguably the best thermal management for continuous duty. Haven't modeled IA in a while I'll have to look at that... but the SQL has the potential to be the best SQ if you run the optimized box size.
 

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What type of power do you have to them? I’m in the same boat as OP and am looking for 2 12” or 1-2 15” subs that are more SQ based but still get reasonably loud and low.

I will only be running about 1500-2000rms total so the posts above about the SQLs needing more power is a little worrisome. Otherwise I’d really consider 2 12s since they’re on sale. I’d be running a ported box tuned low 28-30hz ish.

Right now the Adire Brahama and Tumult’s are at the top of my list but the SQLs look great for a fraction of the price.
I am currently running them on 750 watts and they are nuts. Did send 1100 to one for a while without issue but that being said I am maybe using 1/10 of my power most of the time and they are very loud, deep and clean. You would be fine using a 250 watt amp or a 1500 watt amp. They are versatile enough to handle anything and after a solid 2-30 hours of break in we had to re-tune and attenuate the subs another 5 DB to blend them back in as they do get considerably more efficient once the spider is broken in.
 

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Thanks for the extra info. I will play around with Winisd in the next few days and try to get it figured out and then do some more comparing myself.

I know the Brahamas will be more optimized over the SQL's with 2-4k power but I imagine both will have more then enough output for my needs so whatever sub sounds the best on that power would be my choice. So from the sound of it the SQL is still likely the better choice for me if it does indeed sound better then the Brahama.

So the SQL's can easily handle 3-4k rms to each daily without worry of frying and will be more optimized then their rated power? Assuming it's clean power of course. I know many people have ran quality subs hard over the years but didn't realize you could push that much extra power constantly to them. My music would be very bass heavy so they would get a good workout. I doubt I ever run more then 1.5-2k to each anyways but just wanted to ask to be for sure.

I'm still looking into alts but believe I can get one that fits in the 300A range. For a battery I was just going to get a local AGM from Autozone that has about 80 amp hours for under $200. I can fit a very big AGM like this under the hood with very little modification. If it was truly beneficial I guess I could pay $400+ for a fancy XS power battery or similar to get the same size. And if need be I can always add a second battery later with a battery isolator in the back.
 

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Thanks for the extra info. I will play around with Winisd in the next few days and try to get it figured out and then do some more comparing myself.

I know the Brahamas will be more optimized over the SQL's with 2-4k power but I imagine both will have more then enough output for my needs so whatever sub sounds the best on that power would be my choice. So from the sound of it the SQL is still likely the better choice for me if it does indeed sound better then the Brahama.

So the SQL's can easily handle 3-4k rms to each daily without worry of frying and will be more optimized then their rated power? Assuming it's clean power of course. I know many people have ran quality subs hard over the years but didn't realize you could push that much extra power constantly to them. My music would be very bass heavy so they would get a good workout. I doubt I ever run more then 1.5-2k to each anyways but just wanted to ask to be for sure.

I'm still looking into alts but believe I can get one that fits in the 300A range. For a battery I was just going to get a local AGM from Autozone that has about 80 amp hours for under $200. I can fit a very big AGM like this under the hood with very little modification. If it was truly beneficial I guess I could pay $400+ for a fancy XS power battery or similar to get the same size. And if need be I can always add a second battery later with a battery isolator in the back.
They are virtually identical in modeling when at the same power - the difference between them would require a trained ear in a non-anechoic listening room with reference material. As such, the SQL is more affordable making it the choice simply for budget reasons. Once you put them in a cabin gain environment the difference would be even less noticeable. You won't go wrong with either one.

Both on 3kW:
307911


If you then decide later on to push them to excursion limits by doubling or tripling the power to them then the SQL "can" be up to +2dB better than the Brahma (especially in the smaller enclosure.) The Brahma can't really handle 6kW as it reaches excursion limits sooner so it's the difference between the SQL being able to increase output a full 3dB over the above graph whereas the Brahma can only really do about another 1dB more... Keep in mind that the graphs I'm showing are really zoomed in so you can see the difference. The difference between those traces is not audbile.

As for what they 'can' handle daily - that's all related to the type of music, amplifier, etc. Neither is rated to handle these kind of power levels long term and that's related to thermal capacity. What WinISD predicts for excursion limits does not mean that you can push it to that limit for a 2H Rave and it will be fine... one or two songs in a row? Should be no problem, but then we get in to the amplifier and the quality of the signal as well. If you're pushing clean quality signal with no voltage sag then you can get away with pushing it more than if you have clipping or voltage supply problems, etc. So while I push 3kW to mine "daily" with the Taramps Smart 3K, my version of daily might be different from yours so Your Mileage May Vary.

Electrical: my 2012 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 came with a 240A Alternator and an AGM under the passenger seat. It's got 140k Miles now and still on the OEM battery. I added an XS Power 750 AGM on the Amp Board (mostly because it was left over from a previous install) with all 1/0 Welding Cable and have absolutely no sag even at idle with the amps in my signature (~4.5kW) but again YMMV. If you do decide to do an extra battery and they are both AGM you don't need an isolator since they're both the same construction - it's only when you mix battery types that you need an isolator to keep one from draining the other. The decision on which kind (AutoZone vs XSPower etc.) of battery leads into another discussion about how the internals are constructed and how "fast" it can supply current. Batteries designed for Car Audio are generally constructed with low resistance internal structure so that they can supply huge amounts of current in the msec time frames needed for Audio whereas an AGM starting battery is not nearly as concerned with that kind of thing but still MUCH better than the standard flooded Lead Acid battery. All of that to say that a good starting battery and a good audio reserve battery have very different design criteria so sometimes one of each is better than one big one for both. Also, keep in mind that AGM batteries can be damaged by overcharging and thermal runaway when charging rapidly so be careful if you're replacing standard flooded style batteries with AGM in a new vehicle with computer controlled charging that may not have the correct float voltage or charging modulation.
 
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