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So far it's working out very well! Very little EQ needed, and nearly flat through the entire passband. Had some GB25s in the dash before hand, and had to do some heavy EQ work that differed heavily between sides. Couldn't ever get it quite right.
I actually use tidal, still happy to share them though!
I’m always looking for things to add to Tidal if you don’t mind sharing.
 

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I got around to installing one of my wm3.5s today in place of my gb2.5. Quickly modified the eq (only 1 more band running 400-4k) and an immediately can tell quite a difference on just the 1 side.

A fair bit more detail noticed. Particularly in more complex songs with many instruments. In songs like "Get it On" on the album Live from the Inside by Brian Culbertson for example. With the GBs and GB side, the backing instruments sometimes get lost in the background and only pop out enough to hear individual notes with detail every now and again. From the wm 3.5, that is not the case. Those backing instruments are there and don't meld into each other.

View attachment 311763

Unfortunatly I mis-measured for one of my baffles, so I have to alter the .step file and send it back over to the glass filled Nylon SLS printing service to have a new one made. Luckily, I think I can rig the second one to work in the mean time with a bit of work.
So funny! When I went to my first show with my BRZ, Steve Cook took one look at those vents and half jokingly stated he would put mid ranges there. Always curious of what that would have sounded like - good to hear that you are having success. I’ll be interested to see that build thread


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 

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Curious and cant find info on any recommended enclosure size/type for the 3.5 WM. What are you all doing about the back signal?
Idk about everyone else, I’m IB blowing into sub-dash , with some thinsulate lining and a touch of modeling clay around the Dynamat lined duraglass milkshake covered fiberglass housing
 

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Why an enclosure? What are your goals with it ?
What frequencies are you trying to get out of it that would need an enclosure?

if your trying to do a midrange, an enclosure will more then likely just add ringing and coloration... it’s a midQ so you could go fairly small, if it’s too small you have a peak before fb , it would add ringing and push the phase up, so I’m not sure as to why your consider an enclosure

I can help you model something, but I need to know what your goals are , and what your planning to do with it , how low do you want to play it...

I wouldn’t go lower then 200 with any significant power.

I have a set in my sound room in roughly 1cuft and it rings horribly at 300hz

The 250 Hz two 500 Hz range is really delicate as far as colorations you really can’t use EQ to push peaks down without adverse effects, like a pod that rings at 100 you can sorta get away with (with extra emphasis on sorta)

let us know :)
 

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Sure enough!
Haven't had the time to be able so sit down and put together everything, but I have pictures from beginning to end. All the experiments, and iterations, measurements ect.
I plan on putting one together eventually

Cliff notes are that it was absolutely a trade off. Luckily I live in the NE and since I blocked off the side vents, the other vents push out 2x the air. So loosing the vents ended up being no big deal.
On the other end, the staging is a good bit wider than it was, I lost some efficiency from the corner loading of the dash, but it makes the total power response seem more even since the amount of EQ on both sides is nearly identical compared to there being quite a difference between the sides before. And details seem to be much more apparent. Even though the rta looks the same, the upper mids seem more "precise", I could do something similar with the previous setup, and the mids and tweets crossover as they should, unlike before.
Sorry guys, been a busy week. Much unforseen overtime. Finally got the second mw3.5 installed in a temporary fashion while I wait for the new mounting ring to be made along with all the pictures uploaded to the computer. Gonna do some quick tuning and will be ready to put together a log.
 

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Why an enclosure? What are your goals with it ?
What frequencies are you trying to get out of it that would need an enclosure?

if your trying to do a midrange, an enclosure will more then likely just add ringing and coloration... it’s a midQ so you could go fairly small, if it’s too small you have a peak before fb , it would add ringing and push the phase up, so I’m not sure as to why your consider an enclosure

I can help you model something, but I need to know what your goals are , and what your planning to do with it , how low do you want to play it...

I wouldn’t go lower then 200 with any significant power.

I have a set in my sound room in roughly 1cuft and it rings horribly at 300hz

The 250 Hz two 500 Hz range is really delicate as far as colorations you really can’t use EQ to push peaks down without adverse effects, like a pod that rings at 100 you can sorta get away with (with extra emphasis on sorta)

let us know :)
Currently I have the BE scans 3004/604000 and AP RAM2a on the dash in pods in the corners (2011 CRV). I'm looking for fuller lower mid frequencies. from your description the 3m would be perfect. I could make a new pod that would open the back and seal/dump the rear signal down the original speaker hole. This would be IB with the rear signal into the dash as you described. the pods attach to the stock grill and snap out and disconnect in minutes.

Car Plant Vehicle Tree Automotive exterior
 

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Currently I have the BE scans 3004/604000 and AP RAM2a on the dash in pods in the corners (2011 CRV). I'm looking for fuller lower mid frequencies. from your description the 3m would be perfect. I could make a new pod that would open the back and seal/dump the rear signal down the original speaker hole. This would be IB with the rear signal into the dash as you described. the pods attach to the stock grill and snap out and disconnect in minutes.

View attachment 312316
Perfect! Do that .... you’ll love it
 

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So did a really good tune on everything last nite.... super careful firs, (and btw these drivers needed almost nothing as far as driver eq for stop band peaks. They were uniform no matter what slope I threw at them. Quite impressive. Minimum phase through the crossover is really important... these have some magic dust in them for this.

overall sound quality is quite good... except. (Nick I need you for this one)

the 6wm amd the 8wm both have a characteristic sound that is a little dry. It sounds a tiny bit almost spitty, but it’s not.

on some drum synth beats the beat isn’t totally smooth, it almost sounds like wood knocking. Mine do this, the ones in my store do this, amd the three other sets I’ve installed do this....

after a careful listen, it sounds almost like these sounds are actually part of the music (maybe) and it’s just good detail, at other times it sounds like wood dowels clacking, with a spitty overtone. But it stays perfectly clean, does it at all volumes, no clipping what so ever. Even tuned with Dirac still does it... it’s the speaker..... some songs that don’t do that are fantastic sounding... it’s just certain, dry synth beats that I’m hearing it....

Anyone (nick) know what I’m talking about and have any input good or bad?

I also noticed the 6wm bottoming easy. It pushed it back to 250HP with a 2nd order slope. It moves only about 4mm.... I can’t cross it at 80. It makes horrible popping. To cross at 80, you have to have perfect reinforcement. If your driving the response at all it will bottom out.... the 6wm really is more of a midrange/midbass without the woofer aspect. Maybe that’s a poor way to describe it, it seems more like, it’s only really designed to work within its parameters... like everything is tightly held together and as soon as the driver is pushed even a little more it goes to ****. There a lot like a dynaudio in this regard. These really remind me of esotec drivers a lot...(the 6&8)

the 3.5 just loves being crossed (now at 1200hz) up high.... I tried 400,600,800,1000,1200,1300,1400
1200 was the best..... no doubt. This one just excels up high, the 6wm was noticeably smoother under 1k. The 3.5wm in my humble opinion just doesn’t have the cone size amd motor to play under 1k and be able to keep its composure at very high levels. At moderate levels, the 3.5wm was good down to about 300hz.... when I put it at 400hz , I would turn it up loud and the vocal wasn’t super smooth. Just couldn’t get enough energy from the small cone to fill those large frequencies. Although it would do it with hi fidelity, it just started to simply get strained when pushed super hard.
So 1200 is my number with this one...

If i had a 3 way front stage and was using the 3.5wm as a midbass/midrange (300-3000) and had a 6wm that was farther away and down low, I would definitely be experimenting with some 1st order slopes and trying very hard to get 1st order on this one. I would probably start at 1k BW6 and put an octave separation in the “crossover “ and put the 6wm at 500hzBW6 and work the sums carefully..... I definitely would not run for a 250hz LR4 for this one, not after last night. That’s definitely where I would start and go from there and change things up until I get it right. (Which could be a LR4 at 250, who knows) I just would definitely try to get the sound field correct with a 1st order sum first. And go from there
 

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^Interesting observations. But any speaker goes to Sh!t when pushed beyond it's limits. :p What kind of levels are you trying to achieve???

I've also experimented a fair bit with "unconventional" X/O's with these as well. Of course, with any alignment there are compromises in at least one aspect or another. So I'm back to a bit more traditional X/O's overall. I'd have to go out and check as I can't remember what I settled on...I tried way too many different combinations to keep them all straight! 😊

Yeah, the WM drivers are all pretty much excursion limited. That's my only real major qualm with them other than their cost. There's not a whole lot of xmax there to begin with, and barely any xmech beyond their xmax. But that's one reasom they are so good and so linear within their given limits. It's a chosen design compromise.

In place of the 6WM, and/or 8WM, I would suggest trying the Purifi 6.5 (7") if you really want to get down close to 80Hz with solid output. Obviously, the mounting depth can be prohibitive compared to the WM's. And no, it's not perfect for the application either. But it's definitely got more usable throw and remains linear throughout that wider range with fantastic midbass AND midrange attributes. And it's less expensive than either of the WM's.

What particular Synth Drum or Synth Bass tracks are you referring to??? The "dry/woody" and "spitty" qualities (opposite subjective terms IMO) may be due to the actual synth that was used in the recording, and/or how it was captured for the recording (D.I. vs mic'd amp/speaker). There are thousands of synths, keyboard synths, & drum machines, and each have varying qualities of oscillators/generators/samples. Some of the 80's and 90's synths had distinct sample libraries and "sounds", but were not very high quality and had noticeable artifacts.


Also, I meant to post this earlier, but a few tracks off the top of my head that I use that really demonstrate the detail/clarity/separation/realism/3D imaging of the WM's are the two "Percussion Ensemble - Improvisation" tracks as well as the solo Glockenspiel track from the Stockfisch Records ''AYA" Authentic Audio Check SACD. The other tracks are excellent as well.

Also, Alon Mor's ''Presudeos'' and ''Los Recuerdos'' from the ''Long Awaited Journey'' album .

And "My Name" from Lhasa De Sela's ''The Living Road'' album.

There are A LOT more, but those come immediately to mind.
 

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So did a really good tune on everything last nite.... super careful firs, (and btw these drivers needed almost nothing as far as driver eq for stop band peaks. They were uniform no matter what slope I threw at them. Quite impressive. Minimum phase through the crossover is really important... these have some magic dust in them for this.

overall sound quality is quite good... except. (Nick I need you for this one)

the 6wm amd the 8wm both have a characteristic sound that is a little dry. It sounds a tiny bit almost spitty, but it’s not.

on some drum synth beats the beat isn’t totally smooth, it almost sounds like wood knocking. Mine do this, the ones in my store do this, amd the three other sets I’ve installed do this....

after a careful listen, it sounds almost like these sounds are actually part of the music (maybe) and it’s just good detail, at other times it sounds like wood dowels clacking, with a spitty overtone. But it stays perfectly clean, does it at all volumes, no clipping what so ever. Even tuned with Dirac still does it... it’s the speaker..... some songs that don’t do that are fantastic sounding... it’s just certain, dry synth beats that I’m hearing it....

Anyone (nick) know what I’m talking about and have any input good or bad?

I also noticed the 6wm bottoming easy. It pushed it back to 250HP with a 2nd order slope. It moves only about 4mm.... I can’t cross it at 80. It makes horrible popping. To cross at 80, you have to have perfect reinforcement. If your driving the response at all it will bottom out.... the 6wm really is more of a midrange/midbass without the woofer aspect. Maybe that’s a poor way to describe it, it seems more like, it’s only really designed to work within its parameters... like everything is tightly held together and as soon as the driver is pushed even a little more it goes to ****. There a lot like a dynaudio in this regard. These really remind me of esotec drivers a lot...(the 6&8)

the 3.5 just loves being crossed (now at 1200hz) up high.... I tried 400,600,800,1000,1200,1300,1400
1200 was the best..... no doubt. This one just excels up high, the 6wm was noticeably smoother under 1k. The 3.5wm in my humble opinion just doesn’t have the cone size amd motor to play under 1k and be able to keep its composure at very high levels. At moderate levels, the 3.5wm was good down to about 300hz.... when I put it at 400hz , I would turn it up loud and the vocal wasn’t super smooth. Just couldn’t get enough energy from the small cone to fill those large frequencies. Although it would do it with hi fidelity, it just started to simply get strained when pushed super hard.
So 1200 is my number with this one...

If i had a 3 way front stage and was using the 3.5wm as a midbass/midrange (300-3000) and had a 6wm that was farther away and down low, I would definitely be experimenting with some 1st order slopes and trying very hard to get 1st order on this one. I would probably start at 1k BW6 and put an octave separation in the “crossover “ and put the 6wm at 500hzBW6 and work the sums carefully..... I definitely would not run for a 250hz LR4 for this one, not after last night. That’s definitely where I would start and go from there and change things up until I get it right. (Which could be a LR4 at 250, who knows) I just would definitely try to get the sound field correct with a 1st order sum first. And go from there
How loud is loud? I have no experience with these what so ever.
But a 3.5 inch mid doesn't sound good crossed lower than 12k?
And a 6 inch at 250? And it still moves an estimated 4mm? Crossed at 250?
What spl levels are you achieving with a 6 5 crossed at 250? Like spl numbers?
 

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^Interesting observations. But any speaker goes to Sh!t when pushed beyond it's limits. :p What kind of levels are you trying to achieve???

I've also experimented a fair bit with "unconventional" X/O's with these as well. Of course, with any alignment there are compromises in at least one aspect or another. So I'm back to a bit more traditional X/O's overall. I'd have to go out and check as I can't remember what I settled on...I tried way too many different combinations to keep them all straight! 😊

Yeah, the WM drivers are all pretty much excursion limited. That's my only real major qualm with them other than their cost. There's not a whole lot of xmax there to begin with, and barely any xmech beyond their xmax. But that's one reasom they are so good and so linear within their given limits. It's a chosen design compromise.

In place of the 6WM, and/or 8WM, I would suggest trying the Purifi 6.5 (7") if you really want to get down close to 80Hz with solid output. Obviously, the mounting depth can be prohibitive compared to the WM's. And no, it's not perfect for the application either. But it's definitely got more usable throw and remains linear throughout that wider range with fantastic midbass AND midrange attributes. And it's less expensive than either of the WM's.

What particular Synth Drum or Synth Bass tracks are you referring to??? The "dry/woody" and "spitty" qualities (opposite subjective terms IMO) may be due to the actual synth that was used in the recording, and/or how it was captured for the recording (D.I. vs mic'd amp/speaker). There are thousands of synths, keyboard synths, & drum machines, and each have varying qualities of oscillators/generators/samples. Some of the 80's and 90's synths had distinct sample libraries and "sounds", but were not very high quality and had noticeable artifacts.


Also, I meant to post this earlier, but a few tracks off the top of my head that I use that really demonstrate the detail/clarity/separation/realism/3D imaging of the WM's are the two "Percussion Ensemble - Improvisation" tracks as well as the solo Glockenspiel track from the Stockfisch Records ''AYA" Authentic Audio Check SACD. The other tracks are excellent as well.

Also, Alon Mor's ''Presudeos'' and ''Los Recuerdos'' from the ''Long Awaited Journey'' album .

And "My Name" from Lhasa De Sela's ''The Living Road'' album.

There are A LOT more, but those come immediately to mind.
How loud is loud? I have no experience with these what so ever.
But a 3.5 inch mid doesn't sound good crossed lower than 12k?
And a 6 inch at 250? And it still moves an estimated 4mm? Crossed at 250?
What spl levels are you achieving with a 6 5 crossed at 250? Like spl numbers?
It’s a very shallow slope (250 self defined 2nd order Q.707) it’s more then a BW6 but less then a BW12. It’s sorta in between... but still a 2nd order .

when I say loud, I mean as loud as they’ll go before any distortion or clipping of any kind.... comfortably loud.... like 100db ish

forgot to mention I also have the epique 7” MMAG in the door with 14.5mm one way linear excursion, I have them playing at full power with no HPF and they play to 150. (They boogie)

So here’s a few tracks that I hear this sound....

Let you know - Y.V.E 48

Chicago- McKenna Breinholt

amongst a few more as well.... these tracks I was just playing so i remember the names
 

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I just upgraded my 8x12 to a DL today. I can’t wait to get to do some tuning.
your in for a treat ....

so the Mssounded fine in this guys truck

I’m going to explore why.... (the knocking)

I am inclined to think it has something to do with a high Q......

To be continued
 
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