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Regarding a system where a DSP crossover is used so that woofers and tweeters are on completely separate channels, it seems to me that there are many standalone tweeters available, but not many standalone woofers at all. Do people usually buy component packages and just toss the passive crossover for this whole setup? Do they buy standalone tweeters, then coaxial speakers and just lowpass them to just use the woofer? Or does anyone actually have some good recommendations on standalone 6.5” woofers (preferably 4-ohm, 100W or less, and less than $200)?

Also, if you take a component-system woofer and tweeter meant to be attached to a passive crossover, does each speaker sound “off” when attached directly to individual amplifier channels, since they’re normally “meant” to be connected to the passive component crossover? Or is this totally acceptable?
 

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There are plenty of woofers out there depending on your size needs if you're going active. You could use a component set active and ditch the crossover, but there are plenty of raw drivers available that you don't have to psy for passive crossovers you aren't going to use. Parts express, Madisound, Meniscus are just a few places off the top of my head that have raw drivers to choose from
 

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The problem with going raw as you often think buying drivers sans passive filters is more economical for the performance given, the truth is it isn't. There's very little raw drivers these days that can be used in a car door and expect the same response between 60-160hz. True, most will play flat as suggested on given graphs, but that doesn't really follow the curve most find desirable.

Many car audio drivers are designed to play infinite baffle with some having a slight rise in response on the low end. You can somewhat accomplish the same with a good EQ on raw drivers, but many are still going to be limited to 100hz or so. If that's not a problem, then you can choose some nice drivers that have excellent midrange characteristics. If needing a little more bottom from your midwoofers, a component set or car audio oriented raw driver will be more suitable.

Man & Machine... Power Extreme!
 

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I use Silver Flute 6.5" 4ohm speakers for midbass. They are inexpensive. I can feel lower notes from them and they move the hairs on my legs. 80w is their rating. I have them crossed over with a bandpass at 12db per octave from 90hz to 1500hz.
 

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Fi n.7 are nice and a bargain. Still enjoying mine.
 

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To be honest, I'm a little disappointed in the Wavecor car line. It's not bad, but being who they are and their reputation with home audio drivers, I expected more from them. I currently use their 5.25" car mid and while it's suits my application in one way (LS400 sealed stock door enclosures) they are a bit lackluster in a couple of departments considering cost.

Xmax isn't entirely impressive coming in at 3mm. Large xmax isn't everything but when Q is on the low side of the scale, more excursion definitely helps. Luckily I have enclosures that raise Q and help control excursion or something else would have to do.

Off-axis response is a bit bleak considering that's an important area in car audio. The 5.25" response starts to diverge much earlier & rougher than I'd like to see making it really depend on a much bigger tweet than often successfully paired with that size driver. I'm still deciding if I should pair it with or blend in a small wideband (Whisper, 2" Tectonic, etc.) to aid it. The specs of the 6.5" including stiffness isn't what I would settle for if paying that kind of cash. If I'm going to be limited close to 100hz, I can think of better mids to use although treatments for weathering may have to be considered. The cost of the neo versions really drive my point home. Allowance of $400 for just two mids opens up some doors in both the car & home audio market that should perform much better.

Man & Machine... Power Extreme!
 

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To be honest, I'm a little disappointed in the Wavecor car line. It's not bad, but being who they are and their reputation with home audio drivers, I expected more from them. I currently use their 5.25" car mid and while it's suits my application in one way (LS400 sealed stock door enclosures) they are a bit lackluster in a couple of departments considering cost.

Xmax isn't entirely impressive coming in at 3mm. Large xmax isn't everything but when Q is on the low side of the scale, more excursion definitely helps. Luckily I have enclosures that raise Q and help control excursion or something else would have to do.

Off-axis response is a bit bleak considering that's an important area in car audio. The 5.25" response starts to diverge much earlier & rougher than I'd like to see making it really depend on a much bigger tweet than often successfully paired with that size driver. I'm still deciding if I should pair it with or blend in a small wideband (Whisper, 2" Tectonic, etc.) to aid it. The specs of the 6.5" including stiffness isn't what I would settle for if paying that kind of cash. If I'm going to be limited close to 100hz, I can think of better mids to use although treatments for weathering may have to be considered. The cost of the neo versions really drive my point home. Allowance of $400 for just two mids opens up some doors in both the car & home audio market that should perform much better.

Man & Machine... Power Extreme!
That's interesting Bayboy. I guess we should scratch that one off the list then. I did however have a similar experience with a 5.25" and 6.5" driver from the same manufacturer and model line where the 5.25" driver had some nasty cone breakup at about 1800 Hz but the 6.5" version was OK to about 3k.

I had forgotten about the Fi midbass drivers.
 

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If buying separate raw drivers (mids and tweets), make sure to match them on characteristics like sensitivity, power handling, and freq response.
 

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Efficiency and power handling can be easily adjusted with level matching in the DSP. That's not a major factor as long as each driver can reach the needed output and amp power is there. This is often seen with some using low efficiency widebanders in the mix of higher efficiency mids and tweets. If the final sum gets to where you desire... no biggie.

Response... now that's a horse of a different color, but a good guide to follow is if doing a 2-way, try to use a larger or more robust tweet that can reach down to 2-2.5khz or so without strain. You're going to need it with most midwoofers in a door that are fairly off-axis. Probably the biggest issue is fitting such large tweets and cost. Robust and somewhat compact tweeters aren't cheap.

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I bought these SB Acoustics ones off madisound (https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/approx-6-7-woofers-sb-acoustics/sb-acoustics-sb17mfc35-4-6-poly-cone-woofer/).

Here it is next to the decent Polk DB that I pulled out, just to show it's no wimp physically.


I know a lot of people will tell you the specs say they are not good for door use, and I have a suspicion these people are much smarter than me. The super-low 0.29 Qts is not ideal, I guess. However, for my system they do what I want down to 100 Hz. I know they are falling off, but it doesn't matter to me because I run my sub right up to 100 Hz anyway. Also, for $60 ea, they are basically exactly the same driver used in the well-reviewed ~$2000 Buchardt S400 bookshelfs.


So, if you cherish upfront midbass above all else, I would absolutely recommend going with something else such as the relatively expensive dedicated car-audio woofers out there from companies like AF and JL among others.

Other options include using more drivers in a 3-way system so that you can run much cheaper drivers from https://www.parts-express.com/ or whatever. That way, you can use good high-q drivers in the doors that will slap and you don't have to sacrifice the midrange damping to get there.
 

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SB makes great "midrange" drivers and as you stated, if you're not trying to cross low you will appreciate what they offer. The Satori was one of the best I've used for 2-way. If you're going 3-way on a low and tight budget, I would keep a watch on P.E.'s buyouts for midwoofers that can go a little lower. Every now and then there's some hidden gems thrown up.... just be sure to keep an open mind to capabilities in a door vs worrying about it being some odd or low rate brand. The Titan 8" I ran as midbass cfor some time were a fun and satisfying project. Wish I had bought more.

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I personally was running Dayton RS180's in the doors with sb acoustics tweeters at the factory dash locations in my last car. Sounded decent with the little bit of TA and crossover/equalizer on the pioneer deck i was using. New car is a Mazda 6 with Bose infotainment center. Haven't integrated everything yet but I'm working on it. Ended up picking up a Helix dsp.2 since I can't swap out the head unit. May even consider going 3-way since I have a dsp that can handle it.
The Daytons aren't a substitute for a subwoofer, but i can run them down to 60-70hz if needed. I had them crossed at 80hz in my last car and they responded well.
 

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Does anyone else have opinions on using silver flutes as a midbass in a 2 way?

How would they compare to automotive purposed midbass speakers? And if they do compare, which component set would they be comparable to? Which price range?

The low qts concerns me. I listen to metal and strong midbass is important to me. I have a sealed 10 and 80hz is where I’d like to be.



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Silver Flutes are pretty similar spec-wise to the SB Acoustics ones I posted above. They are great for a well-designed ported box, but not ideal for car doors. The Dayton 7" RS180 Shadow_419 mentioned is about the same size as the SB Acoustics 6" and the Silver Flute 6.5" ( but that Dayton has more favorable specs for door mounting). I would put my money there if I were to redo today.

And to more directly answer your question, the Silver Flutes are lovely for everything except what you mentioned - they will not have strong midbass because they are so highly damped. They are going to roll off smoothly below say 150 Hz.

Double-edit: I realize that is not what the frequency response shows for the Silver Flutes on madisound, but I believe they must be measuring in a bigish ported box to get that kind of extension down to 50 Hz - even their suggested alignment says .4 cube ported to have an F3 of 55 Hz (F3 is 125 Hz in small sealed boxes).
 

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Silver Flutes are pretty similar spec-wise to the SB Acoustics ones I posted above. They are great for a well-designed ported box, but not ideal for car doors. The Dayton 7" RS180 Shadow_419 mentioned is about the same size as the SB Acoustics 6" and the Silver Flute 6.5" ( but that Dayton has more favorable specs for door mounting). I would put my money there if I were to redo today.

And to more directly answer your question, the Silver Flutes are lovely for everything except what you mentioned - they will not have strong midbass because they are so highly damped. They are going to roll off smoothly below say 150 Hz.

Double-edit: I realize that is not what the frequency response shows for the Silver Flutes on madisound, but I believe they must be measuring in a bigish ported box to get that kind of extension down to 50 Hz - even their suggested alignment says .4 cube ported to have an F3 of 55 Hz (F3 is 125 Hz in small sealed boxes).
Lots of good info. Thank you.

I wonder why most aftermarket component sets don’t have tweeters that play low?

This would make them sound much better.

The only reason why I’m considering raw drivers is to have a tweeter that plays low, but finding a midbass that actually plays with authority that isn’t too spending is the only thing that turns me off.

Sometimes I feel like saying F it, I’ll just get some Morel Tempo Ultras and call it good. Those tweeters can play down to 2800hz. Most components tweeters are crossed at 4000hz.


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It's about price vs size. Most component sets have a tweeter that is max 1", little to no flange, and a shallow cup. If you want something that fits that form factor and plays low you're going to pay. That puts the price out of set above the normal consumer/budget performance category.
 

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Lots of good info. Thank you.

I wonder why most aftermarket component sets don’t have tweeters that play low?
Tweeters from Gladen Zero Pro 165.2 DC have a FS of about 860Hz according to their specsheet. I cross them at 2300 kHz and they sound amazing.
 
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