DiyMobileAudio.com Car Stereo Forum banner

1 - 20 of 43 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
30 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hey everyone I got pointed to this forum and it seems that I'll be at home here :)

Well I am starting a business building ready to go component sets, as well as make some more nice drivers available to the DIY scene :)

I am trying to see what everyone on the DIY scene wants... Aluminum vs paper vs ceramics -- other suggestions welcome...

Thinking along the lines of employing 2 or 3 copper shorting rings in the gap -- a motor structure similar to the Dayton RS drivers but with DVC 4 ohm coils as well as well just more powerful... allowing 2 ohm or 8 ohm operation... or the ability to use the front and rear head unit channels to power the front stage alone for the poor chaps that don't want to get an amp...

Aluminum or copper phase plug... price vs a little extra thermal conductivity...

Little set screw binding posts to allow for easy economical connections without needing to whip out the soldering iron...

I could use some input feel free to comment :)
NPdang seems to have the budget XBL^2 mid covered and that is lookin good!

Also could use some input on what kind of midrange driver would be most popular... Cone 4.5" mid? -- dome 3"? 2"?

Trying to keep everything about 93-96dB/w/m sensitive btw :) but we will see what happens... trying to go with a lower Q higher vas high sensitivity design (massive magnet + liberal use of copper shorting rings to drop the Le) that will have fairly smooth midbass in small kicks or speaker pods...
 

·
DIYMA lurker
Joined
·
802 Posts
OlogyAudio said:
Also could use some input on what kind of midrange driver would be most popular... Cone 4.5" mid? -- dome 3"? 2"?
I'd love to have a midrange that would mount within a 3.75" circle. That's the size of the air vent in my door panel. Magnet size wouldn't be as constricted. I'm thinking of replacing my air vents with mids for a custom 3-way setup.

And yes, clamp terminals would be killer instead of cheesy soldered wire leads.

I don't exactly have cash in hand, but within a year I'll probably be ready to hook this up. ;) How much money are you thinking for a 3-way component system?

Dan
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
56 Posts
8" Midbass with a mounting depth less than 3 1/4", with grills similar to the old Directed Studio 8's. (each mounting screw had a plastic bracket that held the grill, keeping the outer diameter the same as the speaker itself).

3" Dome that could hold its own down to 300hz would be nice...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,978 Posts
1) a midbass just like the peerless XLS 8" (model # 830491) in 4 ohm with just as much throw (10mm xmax)and linearity,


they are PERFECT soundwise, just need a 4 ohm driver


2) a 3-4" , that can play to 200 hz to 6000hz flat with nice 30 degree of axis repsonse

and a small basket like the morel wr-4

with at least 86-90db 4 ohm

even though ID personally prefer the 4" more cone area --easier to get the sensitivity higher

I think the first company to make a 3" driver that will play the midrange with force and linearity, will sell a TON

it will change the way people mount drivers

kicks will become pase'

2-a) or if you can mimic the "sound" of the atc dome midrange without the 500 per price tag

and grilles :) that are no larger than the woofer basket so you dont have to add more space when routing the recess
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
531 Posts
xls 4 ohm would be awesome.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
242 Posts
OlogyAudio said:
Thinking along the lines of employing 2 or 3 copper shorting rings in the gap -- a motor structure similar to the Dayton RS drivers but with DVC 4 ohm coils as well as well just more powerful...


Little set screw binding posts

Trying to keep everything about 93-96dB/w/m sensitive btw :) but we will see what happens... trying to go with a lower Q higher vas high sensitivity design (massive magnet + liberal use of copper shorting rings to drop the Le) that will have fairly smooth midbass in small kicks or speaker pods...
Keep the price very competitive and i think you'll have alot of buyers. 93-96db.. sweet! The only high sensitivity midrange / midbass drivers i've come across are the PHL's. Imo, you'll win over alot of the horns/ribbon crowd with this.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
164 Posts
I guess if i had to suggest something, it would be a 4 ohm, 3 inch fullrange with at least 4-5mm xmax, able to play flat to 200Hz in a reasonably small pod size (say 1 litre airspace net, before magnet displacement). 30 degrees off axis it should be flat to anywhere between 6KHz-8KHz. It would need to have a cast frame, decent sensitivity & powerhandling (86db and above to 200Hz is fine), a good motor like xbl or underhung, with plenty of copper of course :). Cone should either be metal with no/minimal breakup nodes or a soft cone with low distortion. Price each unit below 60USD each and i think you would have a real winner. Personally i couldnt care less where it is made, as long as it has the specs, and meets the price. Stick a cool looking phase plug on and i'll happily pay another 10 bucks per driver but thats just me :D You could have a real winner with that one. As far as i am aware, no such driver exists anywhere, yet. For the benefit of a werewolf, i would also suggest that grilles for the speakers are also available if not included in the package :D

DOH!!! I just realised the topic said MIDBASS....well one for the drawing board maybe? I personally think there's plenty of fabulous midbass drivers out there....a good small midrange is what car audio needs right about now IMO
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
30 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
Well... I was thinking along the lines of 6mm of xmax for a 6.8" midwoofer... that not good enough eh? :) I'll see how much more it will add to the costs of things to get a full 8 or 10mm if xmax... also don't want to sacrifice any midrange resolution so long as they can play a very solid 80hz, who needs a solid 40hz... ?

I was thinking along the lines of a very refined 3" aluminum dome midrange unit with as much xmax as I can muster... only concern on my mind is IMD...

A dome mid would allow me to muster reasonable sensitivity with the fairly small size -- although it is going to need a monster of a motor to pull out with better than 93dB/w/m -- thinking ethr 4 ohm -- or dvc 4 ohm not quite sure I'll have to see how that would effect prices and VC alignment in a dome mid... Not my area of expertise... -- I'm rly rly rly contemplating a ceramic dome though...

All grills will be a part of the driver physically more than likely -- think accuton style...

I am indeed trying to keep prices under $60 (well under) for every single unit but if that means I have to sacrifice a quality I want... I'll go as high as $80...
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
57 Posts
blackreplica said:
I guess if i had to suggest something, it would be a 4 ohm, 3 inch fullrange with at least 4-5mm xmax, able to play flat to 200Hz in a reasonably small pod size (say 1 litre airspace net, before magnet displacement). 30 degrees off axis it should be flat to anywhere between 6KHz-8KHz. It would need to have a cast frame, decent sensitivity & powerhandling (86db and above to 200Hz is fine), a good motor like xbl or underhung, with plenty of copper of course :). Cone should either be metal with no/minimal breakup nodes or a soft cone with low distortion. Price each unit below 60USD each and i think you would have a real winner. Personally i couldnt care less where it is made, as long as it has the specs, and meets the price. Stick a cool looking phase plug on and i'll happily pay another 10 bucks per driver but thats just me :D You could have a real winner with that one. As far as i am aware, no such driver exists anywhere, yet. For the benefit of a werewolf, i would also suggest that grilles for the speakers are also available if not included in the package :D

DOH!!! I just realised the topic said MIDBASS....well one for the drawing board maybe? I personally think there's plenty of fabulous midbass drivers out there....a good small midrange is what car audio needs right about now IMO
I completely agree with blackreplica, concentrate on a killer midrange speaker.
I'm looking for a really good 3" or 4" midrange and there is nothing that I know of that meets all of his specs. Each falls short in one way or another.

:)
 

·
DIYMA lurker
Joined
·
802 Posts
Quality>Price.

Wouldn't DVC make it harder to integrate the midrange into a 3-way passive crossover? That's important to me, since I don't have room to go active and use separate amps.

Dan
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
30 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
Ludemandan said:
Quality>Price.

Wouldn't DVC make it harder to integrate the midrange into a 3-way passive crossover? That's important to me, since I don't have room to go active and use separate amps.

Dan
Nope -- it would just mean you would have to wire both voice coils in parallel so it is of the 2 ohm variety... :) and the passive xover will be designed to work fine like this...

It would also give the ability for people to put them in series and use them at home

or require a pair of bandpass filters if you wanted to use your head unit (can't put an amp anywhere, don't want anything in the trunk type deal)... cost a little more for the passive network but it is worth it for being able to use all the HU's power on JUST the front stage units :)

So a 4" cone midrange ~90dB/w/m... I can try to boost that another 3dB but that will be kinda hard -- that can manage 250-5k... is what to shoot for?
or a 3" Dome midrange about the same sensitivity but manage 600-10k and 93+dB/w/m?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
578 Posts
Personally, I would rather have more sensitive 8ohm drivers for cooler operation of amps... only because the thought of power loss, electrical strains & Higher THD levels due to heat doesn't sit too well with me... Food for thought... maybe I'm having a blonde moment ;)

Subs - 14-18mm XMAX, high sensitivity, Free-air capable, Accurate, low FS, DVC... yes I want to eat the cake after it's done...

Midbass - Impact, Impact, Impact, accuracy & the ability to play flat to at least 35hz in Free Air setups... Nothing like having a hammer hit you on the head like impact from your midbass... the rest the sub can handle with eaze...

Midrange - 250-5k sounds good. 150-5k better. I like the sound of the Dayton RS quite a bit with their metal cones. My 2nd choice would be Poly or glass cones since I was quite happy with my Vifa MG & OZ mids prior to the Dayton RS... Black cones with Copper phase plugs should look dead sexy :) Sizes? The best you can do with 3" 4", 5" & Softdomes. Make em all... nothing wrong with choices... chances are I'll play with all of them :)

Tweets - If you can top the Dayton RS28 go for it... metal done, soft roll-off on top, Low FS (600-700)...

And last but not least... an entire line of "werewolf series" grills to fit everything you make....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
30 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
racerraul said:
Personally, I would rather have more sensitive 8ohm drivers for cooler operation of amps... only because the thought of power loss, electrical strains & Higher THD levels due to heat doesn't sit too well with me... Food for thought... maybe I'm having a blonde moment ;)

Subs - 14-18mm XMAX, high sensitivity, Free-air capable, Accurate, low FS, DVC... yes I want to eat the cake after it's done...

Midbass - Impact, Impact, Impact, accuracy & the ability to play flat to at least 35hz in Free Air setups... Nothing like having a hammer hit you on the head like impact from your midbass... the rest the sub can handle with eaze...

Midrange - 250-5k sounds good. 150-5k better. I like the sound of the Dayton RS quite a bit with their metal cones. My 2nd choice would be Poly or glass cones since I was quite happy with my Vifa MG & OZ mids prior to the Dayton RS... Black cones with Copper phase plugs should look dead sexy :) Sizes? The best you can do with 3" 4", 5" & Softdomes. Make em all... nothing wrong with choices... chances are I'll play with all of them :)

Tweets - If you can top the Dayton RS28 go for it... metal done, soft roll-off on top, Low FS (600-700)...

And last but not least... an entire line of "werewolf series" grills to fit everything you make....
How’s dayton RS style 7" -- higher sensitivity DVC 4 ohm (2 ohm or 8 ohm operation your pick) -- copper phase plug -- grill

Prolly go with a 3" dome mid first -- Dayton RS style -- black aluminum dome -- liberal use of copper shorting rings -- built in grill

A 4.5" cone mid -- as high a sensitivity as I can manage without breaking the bank... black aluminum cone with copper phase plug... Anyone like another color better than copper on black?

As for the tweeters it *is* going to be a smaller faceplate version of the dayton RS28 but higher sensitivity and a neo motor design -- but this is my last priority -- this is all going to take quite some time... going to create them one at a time type deal so this will take a little bit...

After all of this I'll tackle a full range 3" driver... as well as start expanding on the lines with other sizes because by then I'll have enough money to invest back into my project of making awesome DIY drivers available... as well as component sets for the general population to use...

All of my drivers I'm leaning towards a low Q high vas low fs design... I can't have a high Qes ~.7 or so and maintain high efficiency and low fs... just won't work... I would have to drop efficiency... This low Q will work fine in the doors... leaky sealed... or in very small sealed kicks... or in small ported alignments... or in very large ported alignments tuned very low...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
415 Posts
OlogyAudio said:
...also don't want to sacrifice any midrange resolution so long as they can play a very solid 80hz, who needs a solid 40hz... ?
lol..those crazy kids on ECA think they need their mids playing down to 25hz solid for it to sound good (because they dont know how to tune).......
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
578 Posts
OlogyAudio said:
How’s dayton RS style 7" -- higher sensitivity DVC 4 ohm (2 ohm or 8 ohm operation your pick) -- copper phase plug -- grill

Prolly go with a 3" dome mid first -- Dayton RS style -- black aluminum dome -- liberal use of copper shorting rings -- built in grill

A 4.5" cone mid -- as high a sensitivity as I can manage without breaking the bank... black aluminum cone with copper phase plug... Anyone like another color better than copper on black?
That all makes me wish it was avalable now...

I would also like to see an 8" (200mm) midbass, similar to the 7"...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
30 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
racerraul said:
That all makes me wish it was avalable now...

I would also like to see an 8" (200mm) midbass, similar to the 7"...
Eventualy there will be a whole line... but don't hold your breath :)

the 6.8" and the midrange are my highest priority... I'm not a bottomless pit of money and a fair quantity needs to be ordered at once :eek:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,352 Posts
OlogyAudio said:
How’s dayton RS style 7" -- higher sensitivity DVC 4 ohm (2 ohm or 8 ohm operation your pick) -- copper phase plug -- grill

Prolly go with a 3" dome mid first -- Dayton RS style -- black aluminum dome -- liberal use of copper shorting rings -- built in grill

A 4.5" cone mid -- as high a sensitivity as I can manage without breaking the bank... black aluminum cone with copper phase plug... Anyone like another color better than copper on black?

All of my drivers I'm leaning towards a low Q high vas low fs design... I can't have a high Qes ~.7 or so and maintain high efficiency and low fs... just won't work... I would have to drop efficiency... This low Q will work fine in the doors... leaky sealed... or in very small sealed kicks... or in small ported alignments... or in very large ported alignments tuned very low...
I think you're on the right track... but just remember you can't have it all... efficiency, ability to play low and small box... If it's efficient and can play low it's all good since 7" mids will most likely be installed in the doors and infact it would be better if the drivers need a moderate to large sized box which would be better for an IB setup...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,352 Posts
10K2HVN said:
lol..those crazy kids on ECA think they need their mids playing down to 25hz solid for it to sound good (because they dont know how to tune).......
Not necessarily to sound good nor dont know how to tune, but if i could get mids that could play flat down to like 30hz and with enough output i would happily ditch the sub... but since i still havent heard a mid that could achieve that i'm still using a sub...
Probably a 3way with some XLS 8's could do it, but a 3way on my car isnt a choice...

Leo
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
578 Posts
OlogyAudio said:
Eventualy there will be a whole line... but don't hold your breath :)

the 6.8" and the midrange are my highest priority... I'm not a bottomless pit of money and a fair quantity needs to be ordered at once :eek:
I recently looked into the same... so I know what you mean about money... Although I was planning of aproaching a private investor, there are limits to what they want to risk...

Which mid are you working on 1st? The 3" dome, 3" full range or... Just curious. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
578 Posts
10K2HVN said:
lol..those crazy kids on ECA think they need their mids playing down to 25hz solid for it to sound good (because they dont know how to tune).......
Not a mid... but a Midbass capable of that, does entertain the idea of running no subs...
 
1 - 20 of 43 Posts
Top