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Discussion Starter #1
So as stated what is kippel ?

I’ve done some research and I get that it’s a way to measure a speaker and balance the motorforce , that part I get (I think)

Here’s what I don’t understand

I’ve read in a few places that kippel testing makes a speaker not need a filter , like it can add a high pass by adding volume.

I did not get that? How does a speaker avoid damage? I don’t see how tat can be a thing.

What are ppl talking about by this? Can a speaker be made to act as a capacitor when excursions reaches a certain limit? If so how ?

If a 3” speaker that is rated as a subwoofer for 60w , what would happen if you put 300w on it ? My hunch is it would let the genie out.

What am I missing

Thanks in advance
 

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Sorry man. I couldn’t help myself. No offense intended.
 

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Klippel is a large signal audio measurement platform for quantiyfying driver performance and system performance in an engineering environment typically used for QC and R&D by system and transducer developers.

It wont alter the laws of physics ;)
 

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I'm no expert, but I believe the reason you can use a woofer with no low-pass crossover is because with enough work you can detect and minimize breakup modes in the higher frequencies. Edit: You should still use a low-pass, but it can be a bit higher if you engineer the driver to behave better at those higher frequencies.


I guess that's not what you're talking about though.

I haven't heard you can eliminate the use of a high-pass filter, but typically a well-designed woofer will be able to handle more low-frequency power without distortion or failure than a poorly-designed woofer.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thanks!

Yeah I think Eric answered it I was just wondering if there is some sort of self capacitance doesn’t sound like there’s such thing but yeah I read it on a couple of pages where it was kind of vague but it kind a said you don’t need any filtering at all if a driver was developed using this
It just kind a left me scratching my head but yeah it didn’t sound like the laws of physics or going anywhere they had to have meant something else that I just didn’t understand
 

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It is a bit confusing because it seems to be measuring the speaker while playing then applying a DSP to protect the speaker and equalize the output. This is great because it's not subject to all the noise and interference you get with a measuring microphone and is much more flexible than a server subwoofer or other such analog measurement and correction systems. It does appear to be using software to apply filters to the preamp signal. This is all good and nice and cool and all.

What I am confused about is that they say they can do with no latency. Even the best filter will introduce a phase shift which is the same thing as saying the signal is delayed slightly. There is no way around that whether you use analog or digital filters. Maybe they are using the term "without latency" differently that I would. Maybe they mean no practical latency. I am not sure.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
It is a bit confusing because it seems to be measuring the speaker while playing then applying a DSP to protect the speaker and equalize the output. This is great because it's not subject to all the noise and interference you get with a measuring microphone and is much more flexible than a server subwoofer or other such analog measurement and correction systems. It does appear to be using software to apply filters to the preamp signal. This is all good and nice and cool and all.

What I am confused about is that they say they can do with no latency. Even the best filter will introduce a phase shift which is the same thing as saying the signal is delayed slightly. There is no way around that whether you use analog or digital filters. Maybe they are using the term "without latency" differently that I would. Maybe they mean no practical latency. I am not sure.
Yeah , that’s lol the same thing that made me think there’s no filter , and on a thread on parts express forums someone said something like , “it’s kippel so it dosent need a filter” when talking about the ND-91 3.5” woofer.

So no latency , and that page I was like ....okay.

They have to be talking about passive filters or something idk. Or maybe the motor controls excursions only to a point, idk , but like Eric said cant change laws of physics.

For a second I was excited and was like “oh dam I can’t wait to put 300w on this three n a half”. And than was like.....uh maybe that’s not a good idea I should ask someone who knows
 

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Maybe what is being said is that Klippel with a driver under test will look at the back EMF signal and prevent mechanical damage.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
AH-ha.....! Oh yes of course that’s why! I didn’t think of that. They have to have a way to seriously push a driver under test , and no one wants to be blowing drivers just by testing. That makes perfect sense.
Thank you Eric,! I can continue reading about it now that I’m not stuck.

Still have a ton to learn but it’s really interesting how this is done.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Thanks guys.

So would it benefit me and my shop in any way to get one or is it mostly for making speakers , if it’s for making speakers I’m not interested, but still want to know how it works
 

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You’d be one person I think would benefit from having Klippel since you’re a sponge for info but I think your business wouldn’t really benefit. Take a look at ErinH’s new site with the driver reviews as that is what Klippel allows you to do. But for your business, I’d stick with some quality companies that will allow you to have multiple levels of products for your customers along with good support. Identifying good (bare) drivers is somewhat less important than a good company you can grow your business with in terms of a quality product and support. Klippel might help you find the best driver but if the company isn’t good to work with, who cares if they have the best driver. Klippel would help you get the most out of the drivers because you’ll know their exact specs but you can get much of that information from a woofer tester like DATS V3, which is definitely something I suggest you purchase.
 

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By the way, you do realize Klippel is EXPENSIVE AS HECK right? I may be wrong but I think the Klippel modules including the laser measurement is over $10,000.

Clio is another one for about $2,000 but I don’t find it that much better than DATS V2 though I have no ability to measure which is more exact. I’d start with the DATS or maybe Woofer Tester Pro ($1,000) and if you want more exacting results later you could look at alternatives.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
You’d be one person I think would benefit from having Klippel since you’re a sponge for info but I think your business wouldn’t really benefit. Take a look at ErinH’s new site with the driver reviews as that is what Klippel allows you to do. But for your business, I’d stick with some quality companies that will allow you to have multiple levels of products for your customers along with good support. Identifying good (bare) drivers is somewhat less important than a good company you can grow your business with in terms of a quality product and support. Klippel might help you find the best driver but if the company isn’t good to work with, who cares if they have the best driver. Klippel would help you get the most out of the drivers because you’ll know their exact specs but you can get much of that information from a woofer tester like DATS V3, which is definitely something I suggest you purchase.

Oh DATS , yes I completely forgot all about that, yeah that a way better fit for sure.

I kinda want to fiddle around with speakers and get to know a little more in depth what makes them tic. But I don’t want to get over my head. That is excellent advice.

I have been watching Erin’s page, that guy just always one step ahead of everything. Love the fact he takes the time to share with us. Can’t thank him enough for his contributions and friendship

But yeah, I think your right. That’s an excellent place to start.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
You’d be one person I think would benefit from having Klippel since you’re a sponge for info but I think your business wouldn’t really benefit. Take a look at ErinH’s new site with the driver reviews as that is what Klippel allows you to do. But for your business, I’d stick with some quality companies that will allow you to have multiple levels of products for your customers along with good support. Identifying good (bare) drivers is somewhat less important than a good company you can grow your business with in terms of a quality product and support. Klippel might help you find the best driver but if the company isn’t good to work with, who cares if they have the best driver. Klippel would help you get the most out of the drivers because you’ll know their exact specs but you can get much of that information from a woofer tester like DATS V3, which is definitely something I suggest you purchase.

Oh DATS , yes I completely forgot all about that, yeah that a way better fit for sure.

I kinda want to fiddle around with speakers and get to know a little more in depth what makes them tic. But I don’t want to get over my head. That is excellent advice.

I have been watching Erin’s page, that guy just always one step ahead of everything. Love the fact he takes the time to share with us. Can’t thank him enough for his contributions and friendship

But yeah, I think your right. That’s an excellent place to start
It’s for drive unit and speaker design. Not at all useful for your shop’s installation business.
By the way, you do realize Klippel is EXPENSIVE AS HECK right? I may be wrong but I think the Klippel modules including the laser measurement is over $10,000.

Clio is another one for about $2,000 but I don’t find it that much better than DATS V2 though I have no ability to measure which is more exact. I’d start with the DATS or maybe Woofer Tester Pro ($1,000) and if you want more exacting results later you could look at alternatives.
10Gs (ohhhhhh boy) yeah. Not for me. It’s very interesting stuff tho, lol. Maybe after I win the lottery
 
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