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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
For example I am looking at two speakers:

1) CDT Audio HD-6 (identified as a mid bass speaker)
2) AF GB60 (identified as a mid range speaker)

The CDT HD-6 has a Frequency response: 55Hz-6,000Hz whereas the AF GB60 has a Frequency response: 60Hz-7,000Hz

It is my understanding that mid range is defined as between: 250Hz-4,000Hz.

As both speakers are within those bands, why is one considered a mid bass whereas the other a mid range?

Also what is "Contoured Dispersion", is that important or is it marketing jargon?
 

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You're taking the identification too literal maybe. Both of those drivers are 6.5 inch drivers. They can be identified as dedicated mid bass drivers or play mid bass and midrange in a 2 way configuration. But the frequency range is going to be very similar for any 6.5 inch driver designed to play midband/midrange.

The "Contoured Dispersion" part of CDT seems like a marketing gimmick to me. It claims to provide a true center image without any means of level matching or time delay or even discuss crossover points. They don't provide any logic or design documentation that shows this technology. It also makes claims against "other drivers" without this magical contoured dispersion as being muddy and no definition, which is all dependent on the installation.

I would bet a lot that the GB60 would blow the doors off the magical contoured dispersion driver.
 

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You're taking the identification too literal maybe. Both of those drivers are 6.5 inch drivers. They can be identified as dedicated mid bass drivers or play mid bass and midrange in a 2 way configuration. But the frequency range is going to be very similar for any 6.5 inch driver designed to play midband/midrange.

The "Contoured Dispersion" part of CDT seems like a marketing gimmick to me. It claims to provide a true center image without any means of level matching or time delay or even discuss crossover points. They don't provide any logic or design documentation that shows this technology. It also makes claims against "other drivers" without this magical contoured dispersion as being muddy and no definition, which is all dependent on the installation.

I would bet a lot that the GB60 would blow the doors off the magical contoured dispersion driver.
I also deem the CDT marketing a bit goofy. With that said, I have 2 pairs of their 6.5” and several tweeter sets. They don’t disappoint


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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The difference is what it’s used for. If you’ve got the speaker playing, say, 80hz-200/600hz(ish) it’s a mid bass speaker. If you’re using it with a tweeter and playing it into the thousands of hertz it’s a midrange.

A 6.5” speaker is fine playing to 4khz but since they’re generally low in the doors that’s not ideal for a speaker of that size, the higher frequencies will start beaming ( which degrades the frequency response when they’re not pointing straight at the listener, this happens when a frequencies wave length is the same as the speakers diameter [maybe half? I don’t think so but I’m not 100% sure], lower frequencies have longer wave lengths). That and when you’ve got a speaker playing up to about 2khz+ then handing off to a speaker playing 2-20khz they need to be fairly close together to get an “ideal” sound stage as it’s easy to tell where frequencies in the thousands of hertz are coming from.

Those two facts are the reason a 3-way front stage is so much better than a 2-way. You can have the 6.5” playing to 200-600hz (ish) (you can’t tell where those frequencies are coming from when played through a 6.5” speaker so where the next speaker is in relation to the 6.5” doesn’t matter too much, and neither speaker will beam) handing off to a smaller speaker playing from there to 2-5khz, handing off to a tweeter which can easily be placed close to the smaller midrange.
With a 2-way you’ve either got the tweeter well over a foot away from the 6.5” or you have to mount them low in the doors close to the mids, and that location isn’t good for any speaker, even if it’s only 3/4”, playing high frequencies.
 

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I get what these guys are saying ^ and while that's mostly true, impo, the specs for most mid bass drivers will often show frequency range of like 50-1500, while most mid range drivers will often be more like 150-3000.
Mid bass are designed to sit between your sub(s) and your mid range drivers.
 

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For those that don't know, CDT literally stands for "Contoured Dispersion Technology"! Little useless fact for the day. :)

I think the whole "contoured dispersion" thing is from days long ago, before DSPs, time-alignment and all of that fun stuff was so obtainable. I think that some of their earlier speakers actually helped with dispersion via physical design (I think).

Just my understanding. Yes, it's gimmicky marketing leftover from days of old - but is literally where their name originated - and used to be a big[ger] thing, I guess.

CDT is terrible at marketing and websites, but in my experience, they are actually pretty damn good at making affordable speakers that sound great (at least some of them). Great company to deal with too, IMO.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I would bet a lot that the GB60 would blow the doors off the magical contoured dispersion driver.
What makes the GB60's so special? What are the key elements or factors that I should be looking at when comparing two similarly sized speakers?
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
The difference is what it’s used for. If you’ve got the speaker playing, say, 80hz-200/600hz(ish) it’s a mid bass speaker. If you’re using it with a tweeter and playing it into the thousands of hertz it’s a midrange.

A 6.5” speaker is fine playing to 4khz but since they’re generally low in the doors that’s not ideal for a speaker of that size, the higher frequencies will start beaming ( which degrades the frequency response when they’re not pointing straight at the listener, this happens when a frequencies wave length is the same as the speakers diameter [maybe half? I don’t think so but I’m not 100% sure], lower frequencies have longer wave lengths). That and when you’ve got a speaker playing up to about 2khz+ then handing off to a speaker playing 2-20khz they need to be fairly close together to get an “ideal” sound stage as it’s easy to tell where frequencies in the thousands of hertz are coming from.

Those two facts are the reason a 3-way front stage is so much better than a 2-way. You can have the 6.5” playing to 200-600hz (ish) (you can’t tell where those frequencies are coming from when played through a 6.5” speaker so where the next speaker is in relation to the 6.5” doesn’t matter too much, and neither speaker will beam) handing off to a smaller speaker playing from there to 2-5khz, handing off to a tweeter which can easily be placed close to the smaller midrange.
With a 2-way you’ve either got the tweeter well over a foot away from the 6.5” or you have to mount them low in the doors close to the mids, and that location isn’t good for any speaker, even if it’s only 3/4”, playing high frequencies.
Thanks, I did not realize how frequency impacts ones ability to locate where the sound comes from.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I also deem the CDT marketing a bit goofy. With that said, I have 2 pairs of their 6.5” and several tweeter sets. They don’t disappoint


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Can I ask you why you chose the CDT's versus going with the a different speaker?
 

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The GB60s are nearly triple the price of the HD-6s. I would hope they could "blow the doors off" of the CDTs given the cost difference. It's not really a great comparison for that reason.
 

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Thanks, I did not realize how frequency impacts ones ability to locate where the sound comes from.
I’m happy my borderline obsession is starting to help others.

To start with, according to a quick google search, “mid bass” is approximately 140-4/500hz, midrange is approx 250-4,000hz. The range of the human voice (male and female combined) is approx 300-3,500hz.

as others have stated,… some 6.5” are designed to function as midranges even when placed low in the doors. I have no idea how that’s accomplished other than it being a matter of cone design.

Such as JL Audios C5 and C7s, I’ve not seen frequency response graphs for the C7s but the C5s have eye poppingly good off axis response up to ~4-5khz (I don’t recall which, but for a 6.5” with off axis response that got that high it’s almost irrelevant), even at 60 degrees off axis (on axis is pointing directly at the listener. The farther away you get from that the more frequency response degrades). Starts falling off before the 4-5khz point but not to an unexceptionable degree. Which is abnormal, even Hertz’s $260ish 3” mids don’t do well over 3khz-4khz (I forget which) when 45degrees off axis. And those are good speakers that aren’t even half the size off the aforementioned JLs.

but those JLs go for about $500 for ONE 6.5” C7 and about $180ish for ONE 6.5” C5. (As a side note this is a great example of the law of diminishing returns, the C5s will be worlds better than any $150 set of 6.5” but once you get past a speaker on par with the C5s it cost A LOT to make even minor improvements. Even though 2 6.5” C7s cost about $1,000 and 2 6.5” C5s are about $360 the C7s are no where near being twice as good as the C5s. There won’t be much of a discernible difference in terms of sound quality. But that doesn’t mean the C7s are a rip off, once you get to a certain point it takes a lot to make minor improvements).
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
but those JLs go for about $500 for ONE 6.5” C7 and about $180ish for ONE 6.5” C5. (As a side note this is a great example of the law of diminishing returns, the C5s will be worlds better than any $150 set of 6.5” but once you get past a speaker on par with the C5s it cost A LOT to make even minor improvements. Even though 2 6.5” C7s cost about $1,000 and 2 6.5” C5s are about $360 the C7s are no where near being twice as good as the C5s. There won’t be much of a discernible difference in terms of sound quality. But that doesn’t mean the C7s are a rip off, once you get to a certain point it takes a lot to make minor improvements).
Thank you. If you were to index the GB60s at 100, how many step down from 100 would the CDT Audio HD-6 be? I understand there is a lot of subjectivity to estimates like this, I am just trying to understand what the discernible difference in terms of sound quality would be.
 

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Sorry for playing a role in hijacking the narrative of this thread but I kinda like the philosophical bend this is taking. So,

Yeah, I’m not sure how you’d tell which speaker would have the better sound quality without hearing them other than reviews of both the speakers and companies, where the speakers fall in the company’s line and spec comparison. In no particular order.
It’s kinda like how the average person knows that the earth goes around the sun, someone smarter than I figured it out and many people smarter and more knowledgeable than I am agree. There’s only so much the average person can tell from specs and design without listening to them and what those who have listened to them have to say. You’ve got to trust that a company like JL or Audiofrog wouldn’t be so highly regarded without a good reason and that they wouldn’t risk their reputations, reputations are the most valuable thing they have.

but from what I’ve been able to gather a large part of car audio, as with so much else, is personal. One person might swear by a company when others consider their products to be too harsh.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Sorry for playing a role in hijacking the narrative of this thread but I kinda like the philosophical bend this is taking. So,

Yeah, I’m not sure how you’d tell which speaker would have the better sound quality without hearing them other than reviews of both the speakers and companies, where the speakers fall in the company’s line and spec comparison. In no particular order.
It’s kinda like how the average person knows that the earth goes around the sun, someone smarter than I figured it out and many people smarter and more knowledgeable than I am agree. There’s only so much the average person can tell from specs and design without listening to them and what those who have listened to them have to say. You’ve got to trust that a company like JL or Audiofrog wouldn’t be so highly regarded without a good reason and that they wouldn’t risk their reputations, reputations are the most valuable thing they have.

but from what I’ve been able to gather a large part of car audio, as with so much else, is personal. One person might swear by a company when others consider their products to be too harsh.
No worries :) I learn best by asking questions and going wherever the path takes me. I am coming from the world of headphones and iems and have always been impressed with the some of the smaller shops. What Dan Clark did starting with a cheap set of headphones is impressive. A lot of people focus on flagships, I like to learn about and try the little gems that are a tier or two below the flagships.

Your reply along with JCsAudio's postings in Under appreciated Mid-woofers got me thinking about different tiers of speakers.

Could you help me understand these charts: What should one take away?

From the first chart it appears that the SLS offers better performance until you get into the 100Hz range and it holds its own until 1KHz. While it can not hold its own after 2KHz, it is pretty impress for $55 woofer speaker.

I don't understanding what chart 2 is telling us.

Peerless SLS 830667 8 inch (red) vs AF GS60 (blue) vs AF GB60 (purple)

294695



You will need to implement a proper HP filter to avoid exceeding excursion with this driver and it is rated for 90 watts RMS and I used 70 watts in the model so everyone could compare to above.

294696




TIA
 

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I’m with you on preferring smaller companies over flagships but they’re more of a gamble and if I’m going to spend a few hundred on something I’m going to be a bit risk adverse. Hopefully that will change the more I learn.

The second chart appears to be measuring excursions (how far a speaker moves forwards/backwards) to produce the frequencies (if I’m wrong someone please correct me). More they move the more air they move, the better low range response they’ll have and possibly the heavier the materials which COULD be what would differentiate a midrange from midbass of the same size? Except I don’t understand how that’d negatively effect midrange, unless the cones are shaped differently. So maybe I’m starting to think it might be similar to a 6:5” subwoofer, just not that extreme.

Hopefully it’s obvious that I’m more or less thinking out loud here. I’m no expert, just enjoy researching and am good at remembering things I’m interested in but haven’t researched this, or thought there was anything to research. But that’s one of my favorite things about this hobby, you can never know everything.
 

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Here’s a link to a thread on this subject. It’s a window into an alternate reality where people who actually knew what they were talking about replied to this thread. I know I’ve got a tendency to speculate/theorize on subjects I probably shouldn’t based upon my limited knowledge but I hope I’ve made it clear when I’m doing so and when I’m stating facts.

 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Here’s a link to a thread on this subject. It’s a window into an alternate reality where people who actually knew what they were talking about replied to this thread. I know I’ve got a tendency to speculate/theorize on subjects I probably shouldn’t based upon my limited knowledge but I hope I’ve made it clear when I’m doing so and when I’m stating facts.

Thanks GrM!
 

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Just another friendly CDT tidbit of knowledge. I just got a set of the CDT MX series components used online and I sent the owner of CDT an email asking if 45w rms would be enough to power them or if that may not be enough and actually damage them. I sent the email on saturday in the afternoon. And I got a email back from him sunday early in the morning! And in case anyone was curious he said that 45 watts per side would be find as theyre pretty efficient drivers. Thats good customer service. I told the previous owner this and he said "Oh ya, Ive spent quite a few nights messaging back and forth at like 2 am asking about recommendations on which speakers would be best for me."
 
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