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Discussion Starter #21
That should do the trick. One recommendation I have for a 2-way setup, don't skimp on the tweeters. The tweeters in a 2-way do more work than in a 3-way, you need a tweeter that can play pretty low, those are usually bigger and harder to install, or more expensive. It's worth it though to find something that can play cleanly down to about 2.5khz.
I think I have the tweeter covered. How are these? Tang Band 25-2176S
 

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I think I have the tweeter covered. How are these? Tang Band 25-2176S
I like them. They play well down to 2500hz.
I run them active with the DEH-80prs.

They have a pretty flat response, and I think they seem to be about the best you can do for that price range.

They have a warmer sound which I like, not too harsh.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
 

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Any system that sounds better to you compared to what you had, or you heard before you installed it.

Then to understand, why some are better or even notice the one seat tuning show, that's another deep rabbit hole to explore that needs information to really understand it and then appreciate it.
 

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Are you still in the garage cleaning it and is it the new 992? I was admiring one moving moderately on the freeway 2 weekends ago near Berkeley. The guy must be breaking it in too gently. The rest of us break it in by driving like we normally do everyday (almost like it's stolen lol).
 

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Are you still in the garage cleaning it and is it the new 992? I was admiring one moving moderately on the freeway 2 weekends ago near Berkeley. The guy must be breaking it in too gently. The rest of us break it in by driving like we normally do everyday (almost like it's stolen lol).
I think he meant a gun known as a 1911.
 

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Welcome to DIYMA!

Your journey has just begun down the SQ rabbit hole, LOL! :p

Before adding a subwoofer or making any other physical changes to the system, I would follow Hillbilly SQ's suggested setup advice in post #9. 👍

My main concern with using the 6x9 midbass drivers in your system (as it currently stands) is that you do not have independent L/R control over their individual levels, EQ, and Time Alignment.

What MY or generation MINI do you have?

My 1st Gen MINI S was absolutely terrible in terms of cabin and road noise. I had to do extensive work using a multitude of sound treatment products combined together to reduce the road noise. But what I did made a significant improvement, and my overall enjoyment of the system increased exponentially. But it pretty much took an "all or nothing" approach to achieve.

And as stated by nadams5755, the doors needed a SIGNIFICANT amount of attention to deaden due to the design of the door panels.

One of the most significant contributors to the road noise were the run-flat tires. You'll find that to be true on any vehicle, but the MINI just seemed to amplify the tire noise coming from the wheel wells. The use of quieter tires will make a vast improvement at nipping the source of the noise in the bud.

You didn't post if you had a set budget for any improvements or upgrades? That would be useful information for any suggestions we may offer.

Also, where are you located?

There may be several DIYMA members in your area who could get together with you to offer help or system setup and/or tuning advice. And Nick Apicella (SkierZ) offers a "remote DSP Setup & Tuning" service which could be extremely beneficial to improving the SQ of your existing or future setup.

I would definitely allocate a decent percentage of your funds and planned improvements to sound treatment. Although as stated, on my MINI S, it pretty much took an extensive "all or nothing" approach to reap significant rewards.

But besides road noise reduction, perhaps more importantly, the sound treatment/deadening products are used to create an ideal, sealed, and sturdy mounting baffle and "enclosure" for your door-mounted midwoofers.

Sealing and isolating the mounting baffle to keep the front and rear sound waves of the speakers isolated is of paramount importance, along with reducing the resonances and vibrations created by the speakers. Those resonances will be hugely detrimental to both SQ tonality and to the quality of your imaging & sound stage.

A solid and sealed mounting baffle would be equally or even more important for the 6" x 9" midbass driver's rear mounting locations if you intend to keep them in your setup.

And those Dayton Reference speakers are excellent performers at their price point. However, they do have their limits on the low end, so care should be taken when setting up the crossovers and transition to the subwoofer (if you don't plan to use the 6x9 midbass drivers in the rear).

Having clean and dynamic low end extension is important in a 2-way front stage setup, so besides creating the ideal mounting baffle in the doors, I would concentrate most of my attention on using the best midwoofers & tweeters that you can afford. Capable midwoofer drivers are especially important when needing to overcome louder cabin environments due to the road noise.

The quality of the speakers will obviously provide the largest gains in SQ, second to only a DSP (and the proper tuning of that DSP).

And as stated, the capabilities and quality of the tweeters should not be overlooked, (again) especially in a two-way front stage setup. We are most sensitive to the frequencies that are typically right in the tweeter crossover area, so it's important to have a smooth, low-distortion response here.

Having that iQ1000.5 DSP/Amp is an excellent way to go in small vehicles such as the MINI. 👍

Where and how do you plan to install your subwoofer?

What subwoofer models have you looked at or considered for this system?

One of my sisters also owned a MINI S, and I used an inexpensive 10" Polk Audio MM1040D subwoofer in a custom sealed enclosure located in the rear floor "cargo" area. The Polk's are not a specific "shallow subwoofer" design, but they are only about 4.5" mounting depth. It was the older model shown here...

Crutchfield - Polk Audio MM1040D

It was really impressive, especially for the cost, it didn't require a ton of power, and provided PLENTY of clean, low-distortion bass. IIRC, the sealed enclosure I made was about 0.7cf with some loosely stuffed poly fiberfill. The enclosure filled the entire rear floor area and was roughly an inch higher than the factory floor lid. I mounted the sub up-firing in the far rear passenger-side corner of the cargo floor.

Anyway, good luck in your SQ journey!
 

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Discussion Starter #36
Welcome to DIYMA!

Your journey has just begun down the SQ rabbit hole, LOL! :p

Before adding a subwoofer or making any other physical changes to the system, I would follow Hillbilly SQ's suggested setup advice in post #9. 👍

My main concern with using the 6x9 midbass drivers in your system (as it currently stands) is that you do not have independent L/R control over their individual levels, EQ, and Time Alignment.

What MY or generation MINI do you have?

My 1st Gen MINI S was absolutely terrible in terms of cabin and road noise. I had to do extensive work using a multitude of sound treatment products combined together to reduce the road noise. But what I did made a significant improvement, and my overall enjoyment of the system increased exponentially. But it pretty much took an "all or nothing" approach to achieve.

And as stated by nadams5755, the doors needed a SIGNIFICANT amount of attention to deaden due to the design of the door panels.

One of the most significant contributors to the road noise were the run-flat tires. You'll find that to be true on any vehicle, but the MINI just seemed to amplify the tire noise coming from the wheel wells. The use of quieter tires will make a vast improvement at nipping the source of the noise in the bud.

You didn't post if you had a set budget for any improvements or upgrades? That would be useful information for any suggestions we may offer.

Also, where are you located?

There may be several DIYMA members in your area who could get together with you to offer help or system setup and/or tuning advice. And Nick Apicella (SkierZ) offers a "remote DSP Setup & Tuning" service which could be extremely beneficial to improving the SQ of your existing or future setup.

I would definitely allocate a decent percentage of your funds and planned improvements to sound treatment. Although as stated, on my MINI S, it pretty much took an extensive "all or nothing" approach to reap significant rewards.

But besides road noise reduction, perhaps more importantly, the sound treatment/deadening products are used to create an ideal, sealed, and sturdy mounting baffle and "enclosure" for your door-mounted midwoofers.

Sealing and isolating the mounting baffle to keep the front and rear sound waves of the speakers isolated is of paramount importance, along with reducing the resonances and vibrations created by the speakers. Those resonances will be hugely detrimental to both SQ tonality and to the quality of your imaging & sound stage.

A solid and sealed mounting baffle would be equally or even more important for the 6" x 9" midbass driver's rear mounting locations if you intend to keep them in your setup.

And those Dayton Reference speakers are excellent performers at their price point. However, they do have their limits on the low end, so care should be taken when setting up the crossovers and transition to the subwoofer (if you don't plan to use the 6x9 midbass drivers in the rear).

Having clean and dynamic low end extension is important in a 2-way front stage setup, so besides creating the ideal mounting baffle in the doors, I would concentrate most of my attention on using the best midwoofers & tweeters that you can afford. Capable midwoofer drivers are especially important when needing to overcome louder cabin environments due to the road noise.

The quality of the speakers will obviously provide the largest gains in SQ, second to only a DSP (and the proper tuning of that DSP).

And as stated, the capabilities and quality of the tweeters should not be overlooked, (again) especially in a two-way front stage setup. We are most sensitive to the frequencies that are typically right in the tweeter crossover area, so it's important to have a smooth, low-distortion response here.

Having that iQ1000.5 DSP/Amp is an excellent way to go in small vehicles such as the MINI. 👍

Where and how do you plan to install your subwoofer?

What subwoofer models have you looked at or considered for this system?


Anyway, good luck in your SQ journey!
First off, Thanks for taking the time to put together such an extensive answer/question reply.

I have a 2012 R58 MINI Cooper S. Run flats have been removed and it switched to a 16" rim/tire combo. Instant improvements in reducing noise inside the car at highway speed.

Some treatment in the door as I type but it sounds like I have much more to do for any significant benefits. I'll work on it.

The 6x9's are an option at any point in this build. They are mounted with some sealing in the compartment they are in. In the R58 chassis the 6x9's sit directly behind the front seats pointing at the back of the seat. It's fine if they are not used. Better 6.5's are in order

I also have a PRV 6MB200 6.5 4ohm. I'm not sure it will reach any lower than the Dayton Audio Reference. I'm open to get something different in the $200 range for a set. Any suggestion that would let me eliminate the 6x9's with no signicant gaps? My current tweeter is the Tang Band 25-2176S.

Current sub is a MCM 55-2421 8" in a small ported box tuned to 39Hz. I want to build something into the side like you mentioned and will likely go sealed 10".

Budget is always dependent upon the the war and finance department(wife). Upgrades have to come in steps so I started with the most expensive individual part. The Kicker IQ1000.5. Was a significant step in the SQ direction with that one piece.

Once again, Thanks for your time and insight into this slippery slope of upgrades.
 

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First off, Thanks for taking the time to put together such an extensive answer/question reply.

I have a 2012 R58 MINI Cooper S. Run flats have been removed and it switched to a 16" rim/tire combo. Instant improvements in reducing noise inside the car at highway speed.

Some treatment in the door as I type but it sounds like I have much more to do for any significant benefits. I'll work on it.

The 6x9's are an option at any point in this build. They are mounted with some sealing in the compartment they are in. In the R58 chassis the 6x9's sit directly behind the front seats pointing at the back of the seat. It's fine if they are not used. Better 6.5's are in order

I also have a PRV 6MB200 6.5 4ohm. I'm not sure it will reach any lower than the Dayton Audio Reference. I'm open to get something different in the $200 range for a set. Any suggestion that would let me eliminate the 6x9's with no signicant gaps? My current tweeter is the Tang Band 25-2176S.

Current sub is a MCM 55-2421 8" in a small ported box tuned to 39Hz. I want to build something into the side like you mentioned and will likely go sealed 10".

Budget is always dependent upon the the war and finance department(wife). Upgrades have to come in steps so I started with the most expensive individual part. The Kicker IQ1000.5. Was a significant step in the SQ direction with that one piece.

Once again, Thanks for your time and insight into this slippery slope of upgrades.
Thanks for providing all of the details & information on your car and setup. Great little car. 👍 And props for choosing an inexpensive but great little 8" subwoofer. :)

When I have a bit more time I'll try to reply with other suggestions, but I think you're on the right path.

Are you using the OEM head unit as your main playback source? Do you have a iPhone or Android smartphone, and if so, how are you using it to playback music through your system?


FYI, Alabama is a great place to be for car audio SQ. There are several DIYMA members in AL that have amazing SQ setups, and some excellent shops as well.

You might want to try and get together with a few of them if possible on a weekend or weekday evening just to demo their sound systems to get an idea of what is possible.

I'm sure that most would be happy to offer suggestions and advice, and possibly even help you tune the DSP to maximize your setup. It's much easier to discuss and comprehend shared knowledge & suggestions when in person.

A lot of these guys have gone through many iterations of SQ setups in their vehicles to get to where their systems are now, so they've got extensive experience on what works and what doesn't, and may even have some very nice previously used gear available at a decent deal that may work well for the upgrades in your install.

Or they could refer you to other resources to help you achieve your goals.

You might even want to start a thread with a title such as, "Birmingham AL SQ noob seeking Casual GTG/Meet Up for SQ Demos/Tuning Advice!". And put a link to this thread in that post so they can see you car & existing setup.

If you ever have the opportunity to demo DIYMA member & Alabama resident ErinH's SQ system in his Honda Civic, I would highly recommend it. Unfortunately, I haven't heard it myself yet, but just about everyone here that has will tell you that it performs in the SQ/SQL Top 10. Erin is considered one of the few SQ "mad scientists" here and has deep knowledge and understanding of acoustics and speaker transducer science relating to car audio.

HTH. If you have more pictures of your install, interior, and setup, you might also want to start a Build Log thread. Be sure to include "2012 R58 MINI Cooper S" in the title. This would really help others see what you have done so far in regards to your speaker locations/mounting, deadening, amp/DSP setup, and general setup, etc, to help offer more appropriate suggestions.

Good luck.
 

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Discussion Starter #38
Are you using the OEM head unit as your main playback source? Do you have a iPhone or Android smartphone, and if so, how are you using it to playback music through your system?


FYI, Alabama is a great place to be for car audio SQ. There are several DIYMA members in AL that have amazing SQ setups, and some excellent shops as well.


You might even want to start a thread with a title such as, "Birmingham AL SQ noob seeking Casual GTG/Meet Up for SQ Demos/Tuning Advice!". And put a link to this thread in that post so they can see you car & existing setup.



Good luck.
I've tried different source setups with my MINI. The factory radio sucks without having significant EQ to get it closer. I tried using my cell phone by itself and found it significantly easier to listen to with the EQ relatively flat across the board. I did have to crank up the gains to get it input voltage matched but there was no noticeable downside except I had no volume knob control or left right balance, but it did sound better. I just used the volume on the side of the phone. There are one or two aftermarket android radios available for the MINI but SQ is unknown. The MINI radio is not traditional single(there is a single din in there connected via a ribbon cable) or double din at all. Its the pie pan speedometer combo dead center in the dash. The android unit does give me the ability to add navigation, backup camera and it has RCA outputs. It will help keep it stock looking so I'll probably end up with that eventually.

I read thru some of ErinH build thread. "Mad Scientist" seems accurate. Very impressive the depth he has gone to from all aspects of his build.

I am going to start a build thread as soon as my IQ1000.5 gets back from kicker. It started making a squealling noise like you would hear from a bad capacitor or such. Will be a few weeks but its a good time to work on the door treatment and run some better wire to the doors.

Regards
 

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Forgive me if I missed it somewhere, as I didn't read the entire thread. Have you considered using the Kicker IQI intertface along with your phone, instead of a typical HU?

https://www.crutchfield.com/p_206IQ1/Kicker-42IQI.html?tp=61658&p=551691

It looks like you have a great start, equipment-wise to build a decent system.
I do not have the interface but I will research it. I'll likely end up with the following Android HU. The MINI Cooper dash is not single or double din friendly. It can be done but I really like a factory look.
 

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