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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ok So I was plotting an install in my car, And I was looking around pulling out pretty much the whole trunk carpets and such to get a good idea of the space. When I noticed some sound damping in key places that I assume are prone to road noise, so I’m looking at this damping and it looks just like Damplifer, maybe not as thick but sound deading none the less.

So anyway on to the question Where do auto makers get their sound deading ? this could be a huge gold mine for us audiophiles, and I’m pretty sure it would be cheap too because they have got to be moving huge quantity’s for the auto makers.

Btw the car is a 08 Chevy Impala
 

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This site is basically supported by retailers that sell that stuff after their own markup. It's pretty unlikely they are going to tell you who the suppliers are. If they did, you could circumvent their markup and buy cheaper. ;)
 

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yeah dude come on, are you trying to endanger the business that brings us the sq bliss?
 

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I do not know about who makes the oem product for Toyota etc, but Cascade Audio makes product for aircraft manufactures. For a car I want lightweight all else being close to equal.
Wayne
 

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I know who some of the suppliers are because I've bought from them. I'd say the only way you can beat retailers is to buy in large quantities and distribute. I've sold thousands of dollars worth of product this way, so it can be done, but.....and I mean BUT, you'll have to make a good investment upfront and work your ass off just to make a few dollars here and there. It's not worth it IME because the demographic is largely a bunch of cheap asses that do not appreciate quality. ;)

Best bet is to go through a rep or distributor for a retailer that makes high quality products. Even by going direct often times you cannot get as good of prices.

Bottom line as I see it: quality costs money no matter who you buy it from. So pony up and stop whining.

Who do the auto manufacturers by their supplies from? It doesn't matter because you have to know what's an effective solution for the objective at hand and do your homework on it's effectiveness. THAT's how you save money. ;)
 

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just buy some SecondSkin Damplifier (you can have the Damplifier PRO if you want).
It is very easy to buy, to receive, and to apply !!!
works great, and cheaper than Dynamat!
 

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The car manufacturers get it the same place everyone else gets their deadener. You didn't think Dynamat, RAAMAudio, FatMat, Second Skin and all those each had their own factory rolling out sheets of aluminum+butyl did you?
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
The car manufacturers get it the same place everyone else gets their deadener. You didn't think Dynamat, RAAMAudio, FatMat, Second Skin and all those each had their own factory rolling out sheets of aluminum+butyl did you?
okay true, but it would make more sense, for them to do with a gm partner
 

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The car manufacturers get it the same place everyone else gets their deadener. You didn't think Dynamat, RAAMAudio, FatMat, Second Skin and all those each had their own factory rolling out sheets of aluminum+butyl did you?
Whoa! Hold up there a second. Where is your proof for that first claim?

First, good luck finding an OEM install that uses identical CLD type products marketed to car audio enthusiasts. They do several types of structural damping techniques for in-vehicle NVH, but they don't "deaden" the car structure like we do [hint!]. For example, in my car they baked a rubberized asphalt or mastic product to the firewall and various places on the floor. No I DON'T drive a Mercedes.

Second, the butylene composite used in DX, RAAMmat BXT and Second Skin Damp and DP are definitely NOT the same. I cannot say for sure if they are indeed NOT produced from some big petrol company or something, but their fit and finish sure doesn't suggest so.

FatMat is fake "deadener" and shouldn't be on the list with the others. It's asphalt-based.
 

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I personally think the newer cars have excellent sound deadning. Like the XF Jag the S550 Benz 750 BMW really dont even need to deadn those cars except for the trunk ratter
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I personally think the newer cars have excellent sound deadning. Like the XF Jag the S550 Benz 750 BMW really dont even need to deadn those cars except for the trunk ratter
that's true, our 08 sounds way more quiter than the 01 neon HO
 

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First of all, the markup isn't what you seem to think it is. Decent butyl/foil CLDs are expensive to produce. There are several companies capable of manufacturing them, but they don't just run "sound deadener". Most OEM vibration damper is liquid applied and is specifically designed to survive the paint process. CLDs for OEM use are optimized for each application and aren't likely to great general purpose products for aftermarket use.

The biggest issue is that no manufacturer is going to be interested in producing and shipping single user or even group buy quantities. First you'd need to work with them to design the product. Even if they are the manufacturer for the brands we all know, they aren't going to just sell that formula out the back door because it's in their interest to protect a proven distribution channel. They're only willing to put the time and expense into that process if they believe there is a good chance they will be able to ship truckloads on a fairly regular basis. Minimum runs are actually huge. By the time you put a distribution system in place, you're in the sound deadening business.

The good news is that pricing is quite competitive in this market. Even the products that carry absurd MSRPs can usually be found at a pretty reasonable cost and the online companies hold prices to something approaching commodity levels.
 

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The car manufacturers get it the same place everyone else gets their deadener. You didn't think Dynamat, RAAMAudio, FatMat, Second Skin and all those each had their own factory rolling out sheets of aluminum+butyl did you?
Fatmat is identical to that stuff you find in the roofing repair section at your local Home Improvement Department Store (i.e. Peal and Seal). I went cheap by using that in the trunk of one vehicle and I swore I would never use that junk again! The reason they give you so much is because you will need to use all of it:eek:
 

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This site is basically supported by retailers that sell that stuff after their own markup. It's pretty unlikely they are going to tell you who the suppliers are. If they did, you could circumvent their markup and buy cheaper. ;)
Yeah, that is if a supplier is willing to directly sell you a small quantity, and willing to sell to an individual rather than a company. Have fun buying 2000 sq ft of matting to save a few dollars a sq ft!

You do know how business to business transactions work, right? Just because you find them doesn't mean they will sell to you.
 

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You do know how business to business transactions work, right? Just because you find them doesn't mean they will sell to you.
Umm, it's Tspence we're talking to here.

And you're right. There are many suppliers out there, but they push large inventories....shipped by the ton.....moved by fork lifts......and put on big trucks. I got lucky on my supplies and was actually able to get better pricing on a few things than Cascade was able to get...and I was peanuts compared to them.

What does that mean? To me, that means very good stuff at great prices I passed along to car audio dudes. Which is in stark contrast to the typical way of marketing to the car audio crowd: poor quality look-alike garbage sold at a huge mark up to the uneducated, unsuspecting buyer with slick marketing.

And of course, the other part of the equation is marketing all of it and I didn't have the time or dough to get the word out...nor the outlets. I did use DIYMA thanks to NPD, but y'all know what happens when a new sheriff comes to town. Not bitter. Not complaining. Just sayin. And I find it hilarious now that I have hung it up how the demand has increased and I have to keep they PM system off because of it. :rolleyes:

So, go ahead, find your supplier, park your cars in the driveway for awhile and stock that thing up to the rafters so you can save some cash. Whatever it takes, right?

All said and done, it seems the best way to get great deals like the auto manufacturers is to start your own car company. I'm sure you can get down to like 5-10% over cost or so. If that's not good enough for you, then you'd have to actually enter the business of producing these materials. ;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Did you not read my post at all ?, I said it was identical to Damplifer but not as thick and looks to be pretty good stuff, let’s face if it can live up to oem standard its good stuff.


They reason I want to know who sells it to gm cause I know it’s some good stuff, and they have either got to be selling this stuff factory direct or to "middle man" than to us.

To be honest I think some on this form have some very suspicious motives.





First of all, the markup isn't what you seem to think it is. Decent butyl/foil CLDs are expensive to produce. There are several companies capable of manufacturing them, but they don't just run "sound deadener". Most OEM vibration damper is liquid applied and is specifically designed to survive the paint process. CLDs for OEM use are optimized for each application and aren't likely to great general purpose products for aftermarket use.

The biggest issue is that no manufacturer is going to be interested in producing and shipping single user or even group buy quantities. First you'd need to work with them to design the product. Even if they are the manufacturer for the brands we all know, they aren't going to just sell that formula out the back door because it's in their interest to protect a proven distribution channel. They're only willing to put the time and expense into that process if they believe there is a good chance they will be able to ship truckloads on a fairly regular basis. Minimum runs are actually huge. By the time you put a distribution system in place, you're in the sound deadening business.

The good news is that pricing is quite competitive in this market. Even the products that carry absurd MSRPs can usually be found at a pretty reasonable cost and the online companies hold prices to something approaching commodity levels.
 

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Did you not read my post at all ?, I said it was identical to Damplifer but not as thick and looks to be pretty good stuff, let’s face if it can live up to oem standard its good stuff.

They reason I want to know who sells it to gm cause I know it’s some good stuff, and they have either got to be selling this stuff factory direct or to "middle man" than to us.

To be honest I think some on this form have some very suspicious motives.
I read your post carefully. Whether or not you choose to believe my response or accept my motives is up to you. There is no doubt that OEM specs are very rigorous and because the material meets those specs, it is almost by definition "good stuff".

After working with GM for 6 months developing the material, the manufacturer is going to have zero interest in diverting any of the material in the manner you are suggesting because it would put a large contract in jeopardy. If they find themselves in the unlikely position of having a large quantity of material on hand when the contract is terminated, it might find its way into a different channel, in which case, you could buy all of the patches you want.

Every manufacturer that supplies sellers to the aftermarket I've spoken to likes things exactly as they are. It is in their interest to protect the relationships they have. Suppose you found Dynamat's manufacturer and asked them to produce the same product without the logo. It is very unlikely that they would agree, but you might be able to convince them to tweak the adhesive formula slightly and produce that for you - your only option short of learning enough about the product to be able to work with them to develop your own. You'd need a really compelling story to convince them to invest the time and effort. In any case, from the manufacturer's perspective, they have just created a product that competes with an existing product. For that to be beneficial to them, they'd have to expect a huge increase in total volume to make up for the downward pressure on prices. In the best case, they are now servicing two contracts instead of just one.

Having gone down this road myself, I can tell you what will happen. There are less that 1/2 dozen domestic manufacturers capable of producing what you want and they are easy to find. Contact them and they will put you into contact with a sales rep whose only interest will be whether or not they can make money off of your proposal without compromising any existing revenues. It's that simple. You'll have to purchase a full run and either pay for it all as soon as it is manufactured or, if you have the credibility and financial resources to support it, payment due in 15 or 30 days. You'll have a few pallets of mat to deal with.

The problem isn't with those of us who have who have chosen to share our understanding of the market. It is with your basic assumption that the patch of deadener you saw couldn't cost very much and that there must be a way to get something at close to GM's price. This is analogous to needing a new muffler and assuming that since GM obviously paid much less for the original one than the price you can find for a replacement, that contacting the OEM supplier will get you a better deal. That's not true for all of the same reasons that your assumptions about sound deadener are faulty.

I have a very good idea what the suppliers we deal with are paying for their products. Unjustified markup isn't the reality for high quality products. The real profit is in in selling low quality materials for prices that are pulled up by the high quality products in the market. You can buy all of the Peel & Seal you want at a really good price/ft², but that isn't really vibration damper, no matter what the people selling it for that purpose tell you. It's easy to buy flashing tape, in any quantity you want and relabel it. Lots of people are doing just that, but that's a way to make money, not a way to get a high quality product at a reduced price.

Question my motives all you want, but don't let that stop you. Fire up the Google and make some calls. One important caveat if you are able to find someone willing to laminate butyl, foil and release paper for you. There's much more to a good vibration damper than just those three components. Foil and release paper are pretty predictable - although I've seen disasters there too, but "butyl" isn't just one thing. It's actually several base materials that are then combined with many other compounds. Which compounds are used and their ratios to each other are critical. Be sure you have established testing regimens for all of the relevant performance metrics so that you don't end up with pallets of unsellable stuff that looks just like Dynamat. That's how GM does it :p
 

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I said it was identical to Damplifer but not as thick
If you had a picture of this stuff...esp next to Damplifier...it would go a long way in substantiating your claim. If you have a chance, take some really good macro pics and post them up...I think it would be cool to see. :)
 

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I think Kotex is involved with factory sound deadener. It's light, usually white, and soaks up every drop of moisture that gets in my doors.
 
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