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Taking the discussion of wideband drivers from my build thread and hopefully continuing it on over here, where it could be easier to find in a simple search.

Some points of discussion:

  • Wideband drivers, noteably the Audible Physics XR3M/AR3K being used in MS8 systems without tweeters
  • Wideband drivers being used as mid/tweeter in high quality (car) audio systems
I'm very very new to car audio, and have very limited listening time on my speakers, but am curious to hear the varying opinions on the subject of these drivers.

Do you/would you use them? Are they junk? Are they great standalone speakers? Are they great speakers that need a tweeter?

Thanks!
 

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I would also like input on other so called widebanders. A complete list would be nice. Thanks!
 

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The systems I've heard with widebanders were all missing that sparkle that the tweeter gives. Some did very well and sounded fine but there was just something missing in all of them. I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that many people don't hear past 12-14khz so maybe they don't miss that sparkle of the tweeter.
 

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Well, I've read most the links posted by fish and I will read the rest. I guess my (certainly simplistic) question is: Will the full range play as well as dedicated tweeters in the upper end? I've read things about full ranges becoming weak around 10K. Will a good mid bass and a full range provide the same dynamics as a good 2-way comp set? I understand the AP stuff is the cream of the crop but what about the full range drivers that are more reasonably priced? Thanks for the input and thanks for starting this thread, Mr. Nielson.

Edit: BuickGN, you posted while I was typing so, sorry to repeat questions and whatnot.
 

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Will a full range driver play treble as well as tweeters?

Maybe directly on axis and if they are small...like 2"ers. the little Jordan and Aura 2s are pretty nice up there...they would be the only ones I would use without tweeters anywhere past 10 degrees off axis. And there is nothing you can do to "fix" the off axis HF drop in speakers. EQing it back flat isn't the same.

The thing about dynamics is these little full range speakers are pretty inefficient...like around 80 dB.
 

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Well, I've read most the links posted by fish and I will read the rest. I guess my (certainly simplistic) question is: Will the full range play as well as dedicated tweeters in the upper end? I've read things about full ranges becoming weak around 10K. Will a good mid bass and a full range provide the same dynamics as a good 2-way comp set? I understand the AP stuff is the cream of the crop but what about the full range drivers that are more reasonably priced? Thanks for the input and thanks for starting this thread, Mr. Nielson.

Edit: BuickGN, you posted while I was typing so, sorry to repeat questions and whatnot.
I've never owned a wideband setup so I'm the wrong person to ask. From my limited listening experience I would say you lose that top, top end. I'm sure a lot of it can depend on how on axis they are as well. So maybe I should say *in the setups I've heard* you lose that top end sparkle.
 

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thehatedguy and BuickGN, thanks. That kind of solved a little debate I had going on in my head. There was a test on here for freqs you can hear and I'm coming in at about 13k. With something that sketchy at 10 deg. off axis, it's probably not for me.
 

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Will a full range driver play treble as well as tweeters?

Maybe directly on axis and if they are small...like 2"ers. the little Jordan and Aura 2s are pretty nice up there...they would be the only ones I would use without tweeters anywhere past 10 degrees off axis. And there is nothing you can do to "fix" the off axis HF drop in speakers. EQing it back flat isn't the same.

The thing about dynamics is these little full range speakers are pretty inefficient...like around 80 dB.

Pretty much in full agreeance.
 

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I have ran the Aura 2s in my car without tweeters and with tweeters. And they are very very nice little drivers. They did treble pretty well. I just wanted more efficient speakers. Linkwitz uses them in one of his speakers if that says something about how good they are. And they are pretty cheap new if you wanted to play around with them...I would just to see what the whole wide band thing is about. You might find yourself liking them a lot and willing to trade some HF extension for a very smooth power response.

And the Jordans...Jordan is doing the damn thing right. That little JX-6 sounds so much bigger than it actually is. Little fragile and you need a real enclosure for them since they (like the Aura) have no spider in the suspension.

There are other wideband drivers on the market that are supposed to be excellent like the Mark Audio drivers, but I have not heard those. But they are probably too big to put them where you would want them to go.

Like I said, give the Aura Whispers a try...give them 800-1k and up. The enclosures can be pretty much as large as what would hold the speaker. And they are small enough they can go where you would normally put your tweeters.

thehatedguy and BuickGN, thanks. That kind of solved a little debate I had going on in my head. There was a test on here for freqs you can hear and I'm coming in at about 13k. With something that sketchy at 10 deg. off axis, it's probably not for me.
 

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Here's my take on the subject as I have run Mark Audio Alpair 5g widebanders. When I ran them I tried to keep them as on axis as I could. I had them in their own enclosures (you can see my build log for the look of the enclosures) and to me they sounded great. I could play them down to around 200hz and the top end was fine to me after eqing them some.

I orginally came from H-audio ribbon tweeters so that was certainly a change. I always liked my tweeters more laid back so if you like that kind of sound then you should be fine.

However, there are many people on here that like their tweeters more foward and loud... It's all up to how you like it to sound though!
 

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I have a set of XR Duos due to arrive sometime soon I hope. Can anyone tell me the difference between the XRs and the ARs? Just a real quick "in a nutshell" kinda explanation would be much appreciated.

Thanks.
 

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I have ran the Aura 2s in my car without tweeters and with tweeters. And they are very very nice little drivers. They did treble pretty well. I just wanted more efficient speakers. Linkwitz uses them in one of his speakers if that says something about how good they are. And they are pretty cheap new if you wanted to play around with them...I would just to see what the whole wide band thing is about. You might find yourself liking them a lot and willing to trade some HF extension for a very smooth power response.

And the Jordans...Jordan is doing the damn thing right. That little JX-6 sounds so much bigger than it actually is. Little fragile and you need a real enclosure for them since they (like the Aura) have no spider in the suspension.

There are other wideband drivers on the market that are supposed to be excellent like the Mark Audio drivers, but I have not heard those. But they are probably too big to put them where you would want them to go.

Like I said, give the Aura Whispers a try...give them 800-1k and up. The enclosures can be pretty much as large as what would hold the speaker. And they are small enough they can go where you would normally put your tweeters.
Thanks man. That does give me a few options to mess around with. When you speak about efficiency, what power were you running with them? And, I have looked at the Jordans and they seem well-respected but, are they really a better option than good 2-way comps? I stay interested in the wide banders because I'm a mid bass guy and having a dedicated mid bass intrigues me. But, the loss of 10k+ is not an acceptable casualty. If you put in the same money/time into a midbass/fullrange, can it hang with a 2 way?
 

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i like a well designed/behaved full range/wide band driver

it takes all the guesswork and signal degradation (x-overs) out of the equation.

2 drivers and a sub gets you great sound.
 
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