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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Does anyone know of any woofers, past or present, which make use of the Hyperdynamics dual-gap/dual-coil configuration OTHER than the JBL W1xGTi series and the JBL 2256G pro subs?
 

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I belive Directed Electronics is using something similar to that in their umbrella companies upperline subs, ie. Precision Power DCX series or Orion's top sub....

you can double check that on their websites.....
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Interesting. Orion is not someplace I would have expected to see cutting-edge motors. On paper DEI's implementation seems vastly inferior to JBL's, though. Their woofers have Le values that are 3x higher than the equivalent WGTi after correction for impedance. Perhaps DEI failed to incorporate Faraday rings in their design? Indeed, the Le's of the Orions and PPI DCX line are higher than those of the old DEI 41x4 series, which despite the barbaric source of their development funds* remain some of the best "conventional" (i.e. overhung, single-gap, shorting ringed) woofers of the past decade. And perhaps not coincidentally, DEI was burned by it, not being the 2nd order distortion box that was (and probably still is, for all the attention I've paid) all the rage in "mainstream" car-fi. Admittedly, that series wasn't the most attractive thing in the world, between the greenish-grey synthetic granite cone and dustcap marred with a raised arrow topped with a gaudy sticker...but I digress.

As for the CV Stroker/Stroker Pro, I looked up its manual. Wow, have those taken an aesthetic turn for the worse: remember the ur-Stroker, with its exposed paper cone and unrepentant yellow spider/dustcap with a adjustment socket in the middle? Still, after I got over the gratuitous styling elements (I'm a Bauhäusler at heart, I guess) what I found was extremely interesting. Take a deep breath and tell me what you think this description sounds like: a patent-pending dual gap motor that allows greater excursion with a shorter-than-normal vc. I assume I'm not the only one for whom three letters and (depending on point of view) a carat and a number or a superscripted digit came to mind. And why not? Good for both of them! It's too bad CV doesn't include inductance in their specs, because in theory at least a Faraday ringed XBL^2 woofer should have quite a low Le. With their sky-high values of Qts and long stroke they might make very good dipole or I-B woofers, or if you want to throw a Crown K2 and heavy EQ at them maybe a Bag End ELF-style sub that operates entirely below Fbox. I'm looking for something to go in a large box with moderate power, though.

*DEI founder Darrell Issa is, in addition to being a common car thief, one of America's most morally depraved and bigoted thugs, right up there with James Dobson, Ralph Reed, Tom DeLay, Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, and Jesse Helms.
 

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Velodyne uses the same tech in their top of the line subs... i forgot the model #'s...

Are you looking at/for some DDD subs? :D
Why do you still skipping on the JBL drivers? just wondering...

Leo
 

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JBL uses a single layer edge wound voice coil made of aluminum, this accounts for the low inductance. I am a former JBL reconer and I can attest that pulling an old coil apart is quite a mesmerizing expierience, pulling a slipped coil out of the gap of a VGC woofer, well... SUCKS!

As for the ELF-Bag End Concept. I plan to build an integrated sub system this winter for my mastering room here at home. I have been meaning to for some time but this is the year! As hinted at before these systems suffer from extremely poor efficiency. While searching and auditioning for new subwoofers for my PA rig the Bag End was on the list. Unfortunately I did not have the money for the chiropractor bills to haul around the amplifiers to power them and even less money to purchase Lab Gruppen or Powersoft amplifiers :) I setled for a standard vented arrangement albeit of less quality than I wanted, I spent the money on seroius power.

The present pro subs are getting pretty ratty and I am growing unfond of their sound, I found a site for pro DIY enclosures www.speakerplans.com Check out the X1 under sub plans. It's perfect for me as I already have dedicated "low" boxes and can run these off of an aux. Although they are a bandpass (I heard that moan!) many have said they really get at it! I plan to build 4 for my club rig sometime :)

I'll let you know how the ELF turns out, I plan to use an 18" driver, maybe even the current one with a little modification, an EVX180. The amplifier is currently a bridged Carver PM350, I plan to retain this if it gets the job done, If not a used Crown is in order to match the existing Crowns in the rig :)

Chad
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
300Z said:
Velodyne uses the same tech in their top of the line subs... i forgot the model #'s...

Are you looking at/for some DDD subs? :D
Why do you still skipping on the JBL drivers? just wondering...
I've definitely got nothing against JBL, though I do find the ultra-deep WGTi series rather ridiculous for car use, and at least the W15GTi sounds as bloated in car as it models. (It does wonderfully when given enough breathing room in home systems, and while I've not tried it my hunch is that it would be an awesome dipole or U-frame woofer, too.) The living room HT subs are twin JBL 2235H's freshly reconed by my friend Gordon Waters of Audio Atlanta. They're 15's with 8.65mm xmax - which gives each woofer the Vd of ~1.5 Peerless XLS12's - and a 1.2mH Le due to the motor design and Faraday rings - in 160L low-Q vented enclosures that on the LCD give me 110dB from 20Hz up before room gain using 400W total power (2 NHT A1 monoblocs) and a 3rd order electric high pass at 20Hz. Or to be more accurate they will be my subs as soon as I get them back. (They're being done by a local cabinetmaker. I can do woodwork well enough to make something that's going to be carpeted in a car, but not something that I'll want to look at every day.) Right now the HT is anchored by a Jello 15W6 in a Bessel sealed box. It's decent enough but not quite up to the level of the rest of the system (Tannoy 8" Duals with crossovers my my design in Qtc=0.577 sealed enclosures across the front, KEF Q Compacts for surround and surround back).

But yeah, I'm looking for some new subs. For my 2-channel home office system. These subs will be under a glorious 12" Tannoy dual concentric, of which I'll attach a picture or two. (They're playing Vladimir Ashkenazy leading the Royal Phil through the second mvt of Shostakovich 15 as I type.) In the Bessel sealed enclosures I currently have them in, the Tannoy 3134's have an F3 of around 80Hz, so obviously they need a sub. Still, it's not a huge priority. As it stands the 3134's are enough by themselves to make me often stare into space and just get wrapped up in the music when I'm supposed to be writing, and with real bass I might never get anything done. There's also the simple budget issue. Two months ago I went back to grad school (again), and as you can imagine the difference between the salary I was drawing and my current assistantship is quite large. And there's the earthquake relief funds in Pakistan that need my money much more than I do... Also, I seem to have cycled through an inordinate amount of gear in the last half-year. The only stuff I'm using now that I was using last April are my Powerbook music server (albeit now fed through an Airport Express and with so many Firewire hard drives stuck to it that it's permanently desk-bound), Senn HD-580s, and Headroom Total Airhead headphone amp. But at least the car's been the same since January 2004 with no upgrades planned.....

So while I'll probably just wait for a used pair of W15GTi's to come around - if anyone has a pair of W15GTi's they'd be interested in trading for some Marantz and Adcom multichannel audio/HT home separates, feel free to PM :) - I wanted to see what else (if anything) was out there. I seem to have somehow cycled out of my entire audio system in the last six months.

And just a note about the attachments. They are, in order:
1) Tannoy 3134 (12") and Tannoy 2046 (8") Dual Concentrics
2) Basket view of Tannoy 3134, showing spider ventilation
3) 3134 with a convenient size reference
4) Two Tannoys, plus the 6.5" Uni-Q out of KEF's Q95c center channel (ca. 1997) and the 5.25" Faraday ringed Uni-Q out of KEF's Q Compact (2005). I'm going to post this picture in a thread describing all four (or 8, technically) drivers and systems at some point, especially since the littlest Uni-Q would be PERFECT for car systems that have 5.25" midwoofers midway up the doors, e.g. some older Volvos, but I've not had enough time to write it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
chad said:
As for the ELF-Bag End Concept. I plan to build an integrated sub system this winter for my mastering room here at home. I have been meaning to for some time but this is the year! As hinted at before these systems suffer from extremely poor efficiency. <snip> I'll let you know how the ELF turns out, I plan to use an 18" driver, maybe even the current one with a little modification, an EVX180.
Have you ever played with the Peavey Low Rider 18? Its specs are mighty impressive, and the price is amazing. I was going to do a pair of those for the HT, with an ELF/Linkwitz Transform type approach, but then Gordon mentioned the 2235H, a woofer with which I was not previously familiar. (I don't have a pro audio background; it's simple irony that my car system is populated entirely with "home" speakers and my home nearly exclusively with "pro" stuff.) I plugged in some numbers, and soon enough was asking him to do a second one for me...

Do let us know how the ELF experiment turns out. My favorite car bass subsystems tend to be a riff on the ELF concept, i.e. a good woofer (the Peerless XLS12 works beautifully) in a low-Q sealed box that has an Fc of somewhere around the intended crossover point, using cabin gain to give the overall FR a gently lifting trend. However, the one Bag End sub I've heard was in many respects a disappointment. It was at least seven years ago, an kind of light on Vd: a single 18" that I later learned had about 5mm xmax. To me it just sounded compressed when pushed with organ pedals. Kind of like the car subs Velodyne sold a decade ago.

chad said:
Although they are a bandpass (I heard that moan!) many have said they really get at it! I plan to build 4 for my club rig sometime
I've only started to pay attention to what's in clubs, but I see lots of BP bass around here. On that same general tangent, someday I might experiment with a building a riff on the bandpass, Dr. Geddes' Acoustic Lever. (See also JAES 1/99.) Or come to think of it a conventional bandpass but using PR's instead of ports might be a neat digression, too....
 

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DS-21 said:
Have you ever played with the Peavey Low Rider 18? Its specs are mighty impressive, and the price is amazing. I was going to do a pair of those for the HT, with an ELF/Linkwitz Transform type approach, but then Gordon mentioned the 2235H, a woofer with which I was not previously familiar. (I don't have a pro audio background; it's simple irony that my car system is populated entirely with "home" speakers and my home nearly exclusively with "pro" stuff.) I plugged in some numbers, and soon enough was asking him to do a second one for me...

Do let us know how the ELF experiment turns out. My favorite car bass subsystems tend to be a riff on the ELF concept, i.e. a good woofer (the Peerless XLS12 works beautifully) in a low-Q sealed box that has an Fc of somewhere around the intended crossover point, using cabin gain to give the overall FR a gently lifting trend. However, the one Bag End sub I've heard was in many respects a disappointment. It was at least seven years ago, an kind of light on Vd: a single 18" that I later learned had about 5mm xmax. To me it just sounded compressed when pushed with organ pedals. Kind of like the car subs Velodyne sold a decade ago.



I've only started to pay attention to what's in clubs, but I see lots of BP bass around here. On that same general tangent, someday I might experiment with a building a riff on the bandpass, Dr. Geddes' Acoustic Lever. (See also JAES 1/99.) Or come to think of it a conventional bandpass but using PR's instead of ports might be a neat digression, too....
I think you are better off with the 2235's, they have a mass ring and a very low FS. Neat drivers as are the 18" counterpart, the 2245. I happen to know where there are 6 empty 2245 baskets that could be calling my name :) I also believe that you can use the 2245 kit in the 2240 basket, I need to research that further. 2240 baskets are a dime-a-dozen!

Yes, I have used the Low Rider, both in the Paevey QW218 cab, and then retrofitted into JBL 4719A cabs. They DO sound good but you really have to pour the power on them. The QW218 is not verry "snappy" but works well in my situation where I have 2X horn loaded single JBL2241's per side as dedicated lows. I basically have a stereo 3 way rig with a ".1" sub on an aux send.

I expierineced the same thing you did with the bag-end subs. I was using a Powersoft Digam 5000 on them and ran out of poop, I then went to a Crown MA5000VZ and still noticed, "felt," like I was hitting them too hard and not getting what I want. I'm a quite dynamic mixer and very picky about my low end and how it sits in the mix, the bag-ends just did not sit right and warrant any further investigation.

My sub plans in my car are exactly as you described, I'm not a boomer and did the same type of arrangement in my pickup truck and was very pleased with the results! New sar is a hatchback and still will warrant a nice transfer function.

Hmmmm, PR's in banpass... Never thought of that. Novel approach as one of the MAJOR problems of bandpass is the sound of the port. Horns and bandpass enclosures in pro audio are back in. I'm really glad I hung onto my all-horn rig. Granted FFT problems are still going to be there but the newer processors really can make them shine and with affordable mondo power available now horn enclosures are reaching new levels of SPL and "effortless sound" Horns were great when the most powerful amp in the world was the Crown DC300 but now that the MA5000VZ is around a horn will flat out knock you over! I have yet to blow a driver in that rig, and it NEVER sounds stressed, it begs for more and mixing on it in a club is like driving a Ferarri around a go-kart track, it leaves no margin for error.

I'll look at that site, I'm glad to see that more BP's are prevalent. I was very against them for a while then an intrest was sparked. When I was talking to a couple other mixers and system techs they thought I was nuts. Then I saw L'Acoustics using BP enclosures in their line arrays and I thought "piss on 'em, I'm doing it!" Recently the X1 plans were posted and 4 of them look perfect for my rig for the ".1"


Chad
 

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Man I am having a hell of a time replying including a quote, it locks up IE on 2 different computers!

Anyways this is a reply to DS-21 and his concentrics :)

Aaah, Another fan of concentrics. I use Urei 809A's at home. I need to try Tannoy's again. I was forced to mix on Tannoy LGM's for 3 years and that experience left a bad taste in my mouth for a while. I think I'm getting over it.

Have you tried the Seas concentrics yet? I saw them in Madisound and was thinking about fabbing up a pair of shielded ones for the son's computer rig (a 5 year old semi-audiophile, I'm doomed) I was a proud father the day I heard a 4 year old say, "this system sounds like poop dad!" Good thing, because, his mother has a tin ear :)

Here's a couple pics of the work room where a few albums have been mastered locally. I recently moved and the old room was in a smaller environment with lots of room gain, this one is in the loft of a log home, no parallel surfaces so I am enjoying the lack of modal problems but the low end took some getting used to. The first album in there took FOREVER to get "right" I ended up doing it at work and taking it home to do more system tweaking and lots of listening!






The pink wallpaper is now gone (previous owners had no idea how to mix "Rustic" and "Country") The "country" has vacated the premises.

Below and behind the workstation is an Electro Voice EVX180B in a transmission line enclosure, it is very heavy and huge, it is powered by a Carver PM350 Bridged, the Urei's are powered by a Crown DC300A with the cosmetically matching IC150A preamp as the DAW control center. They are crossed over by a highly modified Rane AC22B crossover.

The JBL's are powered from a recently rebuilt Scott299D, I found that during the rebuild that this particular one is very rare because it was made in the middle of a line changeover and is actually a bastard child of many different Scott designs. I then decided to keep it instead of selling it as originally intended :) The Scott is driven from a Parasound D/A converter via Tosklink from the computer. That rig gives me more of an Idea how it's going to sound on a Hi-Fi.

Scott Pics:








My "rednek reference" system is in the electronics shop, consisting of an Onkyo Integra P304 Preamp, a Flame Linear model 400, and a set of Rockem-Sockem Jensen 15" home speakers (all cones baby). It's actually fun to listen to, tons of tweeter bounce off the ceiling, big ****ty low-end, and weird mids. I love it. Sources are an old Sony CDX5100 Car CD player/tuner, XM Roady, and often times an iRiver H10. This rig brings many people back to reality :)

Shop Pics:





So there's mt DIY home world in a nutshell :) Maybe I went too far, dunno.

I figured it was picture time :)

Chad
 
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I've lost a couple of lengthy posts (and I type really sloooowwww :mad: )
on 2 different computers also, because of lock ups on IE :confused: .

Cheers,

AJ
 

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Well, here's wat I do...... I'm a very poor typist so before sending it out I copy it into Word and spell check, etc. I simply leave word open until after it sends! It only happens on the long ones to me.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
AJinFLA said:
I've lost a couple of lengthy posts (and I type really sloooowwww :mad: )
on 2 different computers also, because of lock ups on IE :confused: .
If you want to solve that problem permanently, try Safari. It just works....
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Before getting into other stuff, I've found another interesting DDD-motor woofer. It's a JBL but a pro one rather than a car one. The 2268H is an 18" woofer with the DDD motor, neo magnets, and 23mm (!!!!!) of xmax. Le is higher than my 2235H's, but at 1.85mH still not egregious. Especially since each one will displace THREE LITERS, or twice the air a single W15GTi will displace. To be sure, its parameters aren't as ideal for home use as they could be. The most suitable home use seems to be an ELF-style enclosure. A 121L enclosure has a Qtc of 0.57 and an F3 of 77Hz. However, as mentioned by Chad above ELF systems require insane power. Even with 1000W you're not going to reach xmax even at 10Hz, though at 20Hz you'll get within 3dB of the driver's max physical output. (107dB vs. 110dB.) A huge ported box would be great fun, though. A 280L (10ft^3) mini-fridge would have an F3 in the low 30Hz range (assuming a lowpass of 80Hz) and it would need 300W to reach xmax (110dB) at 20Hz. Unfortunately, I have neither 2kW of power available nor room for 25 cubic feet of subs, so right now it doesn't look like an outstanding choice for my application. The search goes on, albeit half-heartedly.

chad said:
Aaah, Another fan of concentrics. I use Urei 809A's at home. I need to try Tannoy's again. I was forced to mix on Tannoy LGM's for 3 years and that experience left a bad taste in my mouth for a while. I think I'm getting over it.
Those Ureis look really neat! Is that an Altec driver? Speaking of which, have you seen the latest variation on the Altec 605 theme, the Great Plains Audio/Iconic 704, or the latest modernization of it, the BMS 15C682? The Iconic is a bit pricey for me, but the BMS is around $800/pr from Assistance Audio. I'm a huge fan of BMS's compression drivers, and while I've not heard their woofers on paper they push all the right buttons.

How old were the LGM's? I ask because most Golds and other alnico-magnet Duals that fall into the hands of people with measurement gear seem to be pretty severely demagnetized by now. Or maybe you just didn't like 'em. I've never heard vintage Tannoys, only the newer ferrite-magnet Tulip waveguide stuff, so I have no idea what the old stuff sound like. I've never heard a recent-vintage Tannoy dual with sufficient cone area (i.e. excluding the System 600 studio monitor) that I wasn't fond of, though.

chad said:
Have you tried the Seas concentrics yet?
I've had no occasion to use the newest one, the H1333 with its updated wide-roll tweeter and (?) waveguide tweaks. However, I've used its two predecessors, the H1144 and T17RE-COAX (the difference between them is that H1144 has the newer Seas basket, with spider ventilation) and I've familiar with the variant Gradient uses in their Revolution (basically, Seas' "G" cone and an aluminum tweeter) as well. I've not played with them much at home. However, lots of my friends with older cars (i.e. pre-DSP and so on) are driving around with them in their cars, usually with the woofer run wide open and the tweeter with some riff on a 2nd order HP.

That said, if you have a Brandsmart USA near you it would be worth seeing if they have any KEF Q Compacts available. You won't get the satisfaction of DIY but you'll get better sound for a lot less money. In their Atlanta store they were clearing these speakers out for $55ea, including tax, and within the dynamic limits of a 5.25" midwoofer they're extremely good. (I went into the store for a new toaster, heard them across the way, and walked out with four for my surround channels...) The Q Compact absolutely slaughters the Seas (except for the H1333, perhaps, as I've not heard it) in HF clarity and extension, and is literally competitive with any dome tweeter I've yet heard. It has better directivity control through the midband than the older Seas drivers, because their tweeters couldn't quite get low enough to match the directivity of the woofer. (The H1333 appears to have fixed this problem.) Its motor is also superior to the Seas units, with an undercut polepiece and Faraday rings. Below are some pictures of the little driver. Below are some pics of its driver. (Mercifully, in the speaker the driver frame is covered by a black trim ring.)

In all, it looks like you've got some neat stuff going on, and certainly more advanced abilities than someone like me. (My competence basically stops at and designing cabinets, modeling/assembling crossovers, and evaluating the end results of my efforts and others.) What kinds of stuff do you record?

PS: Wouldn't you know that, just after I mentioned how using a well-designed computer and browser would save long posts yesterday, I managed to trash a long post that resembled this one. Of course, it wasn't ENTIRELY Safari's fault. My finger slipped and I accidentally closed 12 tabs, so I guess it was my fault. Would be nice if Apple fixed Safari's one flaw with an optional,*"do you really want to close all those tabs" dialogue box like Firefox has. But I digress....
 

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DS-21 said:
Before getting into other stuff, I've found another interesting DDD-motor woofer. It's a JBL but a pro one rather than a car one. The 2268H is an 18" woofer with the DDD motor, neo magnets, and 23mm (!!!!!) of xmax. Le is higher than my 2235H's, but at 1.85mH still not egregious. Especially since each one will displace THREE LITERS, or twice the air a single W15GTi will displace. To be sure, its parameters aren't as ideal for home use as they could be. The most suitable home use seems to be an ELF-style enclosure. A 121L enclosure has a Qtc of 0.57 and an F3 of 77Hz. However, as mentioned by Chad above ELF systems require insane power. Even with 1000W you're not going to reach xmax even at 10Hz, though at 20Hz you'll get within 3dB of the driver's max physical output. (107dB vs. 110dB.) A huge ported box would be great fun, though. A 280L (10ft^3) mini-fridge would have an F3 in the low 30Hz range (assuming a lowpass of 80Hz) and it would need 300W to reach xmax (110dB) at 20Hz. Unfortunately, I have neither 2kW of power available nor room for 25 cubic feet of subs, so right now it doesn't look like an outstanding choice for my application. The search goes on, albeit half-heartedly.
Let's see If I did quoting right :) I'm a HTML Newb.

I have used that driver in the SRX728S and it performed well, the JBL dual 18 are some of my faves. I still liked the SRX4719 a little better but it has a larger cab. The sound company I do part time consulting for had a bunch of cabs that are the same size, one type is a full range with a JBL2241H a PAS Coaxial 15 with a 2" throat horn and a JBL 2450H bolted to the back of the coax. Those sound darn good, it's a pretty big cab and the 18 has room to breathe. They then had some dual18" "subwoofers" in the same type of cab, they sucked. The rig started out with 2240H's and they BARELY worked in those cabs, but the 2241's have longer excursion and there was not enough vent area or box for them. At high levels they literally acted like Quasi sealed enclosures! The subs were long sold, they had a slew of the FR cabs and a few years ago revamped 8 of them to do small corporate/ club work. The rig can be easily split up to 4/per side to 2/per side. We had a surplus of the old FR cabs and 4 of the 2268H's. I decided to do a little fab work to check them out. The boxes are AROUND 10CuFt, don't remember the exact number. I knocked out the cylinder the 15" sits in and had a cab wiht an 18" hole, 15" hole and a couple ports. I sealed off the ports and designed a new venting system that was built into a plate to go into the hole for the 15". I now had 4 HUGE single 18's (well huge for a single 18) :) When laid out so that all 4 18's couple, center packed under or in front of the stage, they flat out KILL! Darn ugly, but that's what scrims are for :) These drivers will take some power and the sub system never complained when I liberally applied a DBX120 Sub Synth to kick and floor tom. Neat driver, worth playing with!



DS-21 said:
Those Ureis look really neat! Is that an Altec driver? Speaking of which, have you seen the latest variation on the Altec 605 theme, the Great Plains Audio/Iconic 704, or the latest modernization of it, the BMS 15C682? ....
Urei is a JBL thing I think 'ol Jimbo lansing brought the technology over to JBL. The larger Urei's (15's) are VERY altec-ish the 12's like mine are a tad different with a foam surround, etc. The 15's are a 604 derivative. The horn lips are foam lined to deal with edge diffraction and the left and right sides of the waveguide are treated to reduce honk/FFT response.

They appear VERY imposing and some are scared to sit down in front of them beings they are near field and a few feet from your face. I used to cover them with acoustically transparent scrim when I first had them because it was hard to believe something so damn ugly can sound soooo sweet. They are quite open sounding but never really sound like a horn when properly set up. I originally bought them to handle the high levels that I use when mastering live stuff, I start as loud as the show and make it have that excitement at lower levels in the end product. I ended up mixing on them all the time because they are sooo open, albeit if the recording sucks....... you will know it! They have a very solid center image, they are far from being able to make a "wide" soundstage, left is left, right is right, no more, no less!

In the winter I switch out the JBL's on top for a set of a/d/s L570's. I don't know why but I like the JBL's better in the summer, that part of the system is also my listening system and I guess I listen louder in the summer so the JBL's are better suited. Also, I guess change is good sometimes. I also like mixing on the a/d/s, maybe because i am very familiar with them, I never mix on the JBL's just listen and compare.

DS-21 said:
How old were the LGM's? I ask because most Gold’s and other alnico-magnet Duals that fall into the hands of people with measurement gear seem to be pretty severely demagnetized by now. Or maybe you just didn't like 'em. I've never heard vintage Tannoys, only the newer ferrite-magnet Tulip waveguide stuff, so I have no idea what the old stuff sound like.
See how they put a super tweet on some of their newer stuff? There's a reason :) The LGM's were prolly from the early to mid 90's They had NO bottom, none, zilch. They had no highs, none, zilch. They had ton's of midbass, and tons of upper mids. They gave me a headache! Even trimming out the highs on the front panel, which incidentally, my boss hated me doing. They still sounded bad and I was amazed that the Ureis sounded so good for an older design. They are long gone, we sold them for a tremendous amount of money (in my taste) and now use Genelec in one studio, Meyer in another, and Mackie's in the third. The Meyers are my fave! MMMMMM so easy to listen to! I think I even like the Mackies over that particular Genelec! But as you said, maybe I just did not like the LGM's, many do, if the shoe fits.......

DS-21 said:
That said, if you have a Brandsmart USA near you it would be worth seeing if they have any KEF Q Compacts available. You won't get the satisfaction of DIY but you'll get better sound for a lot less money. In their Atlanta store they were clearing these speakers out for $55ea, including tax, and within the dynamic limits of a 5.25" midwoofer they're extremely good. (I went into the store for a new toaster, heard them across the way, and walked out with four for my surround channels...) The Q Compact absolutely slaughters the Seas (except for the H1333, perhaps, as I've not heard it) in HF clarity and extension, and is literally competitive with any dome tweeter I've yet heard. It has better directivity control through the midband than the older Seas drivers, because their tweeters couldn't quite get low enough to match the directivity of the woofer. (The H1333 appears to have fixed this problem.) Its motor is also superior to the Seas units, with an undercut polepiece and Faraday rings. Below are some pictures of the little driver. Below are some pics of its driver. (Mercifully, in the speaker the driver frame is covered by a black trim ring.)
No Brandsmart around these parts. I'll check the web, looks cool!

DS-21 said:
In all, it looks like you've got some neat stuff going on, and certainly more advanced abilities than someone like me. (My competence basically stops at and designing cabinets, modeling/assembling crossovers, and evaluating the end results of my efforts and others.) What kinds of stuff do you record?
Thanks, after time it just seems that you amount more and more stuff, I' not a big seller :) As for your abilities, it sounds like you have got it together, know how to weed out the ********, and have a solid understanding. That in itself commands the respect from myself and I'm sure many you speak with. Good job! Keep it up!

As for recording. I do some live recording, NO STUDIO WORK. I hate recording, I come from a performance audio aspect that if there is a mistake, it's cool, just don't do it again, no-one probably noticed. In studio tracking there's the ominous Do-Over, HEH not for me :) I prefer mastering, it's pretty much finished, I just polish it and make it sound good on everything, not just in the lab. I do work for a techno label on the east coast (I was a turntabilist, still have the love) and for local bands getting their start. I, in no way, want to master for a living, unless I lose my legs and it's the only way I can remain in the music industry. I also come from the standpoint that if I can help fledgling bands get the quality of sound of the big bands then maybe, just maybe, they will make it and the music industry will turn around and won't be saturated with so much canned music ********! Maybe I'm dreaming, but I like to help others fulfill their dreams at an affordable rate.

Many people helped me make it in the music biz, they know I am grateful, I feel it's only right to help others. The music industry is missing this aspect today; I want to help bring it back!

Chad
 
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