Performance has a price and weight, so far the best performers are heavy.

It seems that the better performers being lighter are Dynamat and one of the knukonceptz deadeners but I may be doing the math wrong because Alpha and SDS showed good on the charts too.

 

So far, its true that the current 1st and 3rd best performing products are heavy, at about 1.5lbs and 1lbs per square foot. But, 2nd is around .75 lbs per square foot, and 4th and 5th are around there too.

 

We should have samples for Murdermat sometime next week
2 sq. feet of both their products

 

Awesome.


I'm going to finish with the last products I currently have for vibration testing tomorrow. I have Fatmat, STP Vizomat, Rattletrap, and Deadskin to test from what I've received so far. I will likely take a break sunday and monday.

After that, I'll test tuesday through thursday, but friday I wont be testing. My upcoming surgery is cancelled, as my mom needs emergency surgery. So that will be taken some of my time.

 

Sorry to hear about the surgeries, hope both go well.

I'm assuming the GTMat Quadro go mixed up in the mail or something? as DeanE10 said you should of received it by now?

 

I have been watching this thread for a while and mention to ask if you need some Alphadamp to run through your tests?

 

IT was tested here in case you missed it: http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/1944965-post251.html

I am sure he could use more though...

 

Datcat, I actually got another sheet of Alphadamp with the Rattletrap that came in, so I have enough to test two more times for consistency, plus the heat testing. Thank you for asking though.

I'm not sure about the Quadro, as soon as it gets here, I'll let everyone know. I haven't checked the door step yet, but so far everything has been delivered to the mailbox.

Thanks Nothingface, yeah were weren't expecting it. She has an ongoing problem, with L1-L5 vertebrae damaged, as well as both knees, but this is something else entirely, just an old age thing. Cervical Spinal Stenosis. Basically narrowing of the spinal canal, causing pressure on the spinal cord, in this case caused by multiple bone spurs in the neck as well as a thickened longitudinal tendon, likely caused by aging. Spinal canal width is around 11mm average, the MRI shows hers around 6mm. Any accident, fall, etc, has a high chance of paralysis. Shes in a neck brace until they can schedule it.

In comparison, my surgery to fixed a damaged septum is sacrificial to help her with hers.

 

I'm not sure about the Quadro, as soon as it gets here, I'll let everyone know. I haven't checked the door step yet, but so far everything has been delivered to the mailbox.

hhmm.. Sent twice... I will look into this again

 

Are you getting it back after sending? I double checked the pm to you with the address, and its right. Someone is home at all times, so it would either have to be getting lost in the mail, or someone is taking it.

 

If anyone has the tracking number, That should help explain the issue

 

You should be able to get the Focal and Black Hole products through your local Orca rep. I would think anyone that carries Mosconi, Focal, or Illusion Audio should be able to order some for you.

 

Maybe Canada is a little different but I find just about any high end dealer can get it. My dealer doesn't carry any of those lines (god, I wish they did tho) but they have at least the Black Hole Tile available and the Black Hole Stuff too. They use Cascade for their dampening however and have never seen them use Focal Bam. I do have a Focal/Mosconi dealer here tho and I could probably land that there.

 

I'll check the local Mosconi shop for the Black Hole products. Not sure that shop will be willing to order it, as Rton20s can vouch for, but I'll try. I'll get in touch with Bing first, I'd rather purchase from them than the local option. I did get a donation however that will allow me to pick up some Black Hole products.


Dean, I got the Quadro sample from GTMat today. Let me know if you were still going to send the ebay product.

 

Dean, I got the Quadro sample from GTMat today. Let me know if you were still going to send the ebay product.

There was a 12x12 of the ebay stuff in the first shipment... Let me see about getting another one over to you.

 

I'd would probably try to get my product from Bing before the local option. Oh, wait... I did get my product from Bing instead of the local option!

Glad to hear the mystery of the missing GTMat has been resolved.

 

Got Murdermat in last night, both products from them. When I test, I'll be testing both with, and without the vinyl layer, since its claimed that it can be removed for those who don't want the graphics. I'll be testing tonight, fatmat, rattletrap, and vizomat.

 

Will do.

 

Such awesome info in a single thread. TS2F, thank you so much for all your dedication and work on the testing. Especially with how hectic things have been for you while still knocking these tests out.

I'm planning on an active component front stage, single sub, 5ch amp, and a LOC/sound processor (LC7i is tops on my list) while making for a basic and cheap SQ install in my car, and one thing I want to do is properly deaden things up a bit. This thread has been such a huge help so far, and I am eagerly waiting for the final results thread. Great job!

 

TooStubborn -

Great progress. Congratulations. I have some info for you and hopefully some encouragement for when any other rocks get thrown your way.

First I took a hard look at accelerometers and they are just too noisy and have to be attached to the panel. The best way is what you are doing. I don't remember what mic you are using but you may need to correct for the curve of the mic. But since you are using it on all the samples it is not a huge issue.

For the idiots who challenge what you are doing, I know it is difficult when that happens but just as taxes and death are certain, so are idiots when you are doing something important. We can talk in PM but I have 30 years experience dealing with this and the trick is to not give any energy to them. You aren't doing this work for them, you are doing it for the 99.9% who get it and support your efforts. My suggestion would be to tell them that they can run their testing any way they want. At least you are actually doing it and not just talking about it.

I am an engineer and scientist and know great statisticians who have PhD's. Any experiment can be pulled apart because there is no perfect experiment. You have shown great care in the process and have worked very hard to minimize inconsistencies given your limited resources. I and many others are impressed. The results that you have provided and will provide are extremely valuable. It is a starting place to sort out what is what. You may or may not continue to refine your process - either way your results will stand. And it will force changes that will benefit car lovers who spend way too much money on a variety of things that don't do what is claimed. It may be that a multi million dollar lab under the strictest of standards would come up with the exact same results as you. I can say for sure that those results wouldn't be far off from yours. It just isn't possible.

Good job.

 

Thanks. I've come to pretty much the same conclusion about using an accelerometer. The dynamic range needed seems to be much higher than I would be able to get with an accelerometer. I'm using the microphone that comes with the Dayton Omnimic, which should be similar to the Behringer ECM8000, although the Dayton mic is a usb powered unit. I'm using the calibration file it came with as well.

There will be a time where I go more in depth, probably a ways off so I can be ready for it. I've been working on design of a new test set-up that will allow me to test each sample at multiple temps, which is something important that this test is missing. It would also have a largely reduced noise floor, and have a much better clamping system. I'll get some drawings done up this weekend. This project is probably going to end up with a 100+ page report.

I'll have more info later, but I do want people to know that Don and I talked and are ok. He clarified his concerns on testing, and I clarified the process and we both actually have a lot of the same concerns. I'll explain more later.

 

^^^^^ what he said

 

So I had this all typed out last night, but lost it, and it was too late to re-type it.

My biggest concern with the release of results before having time to go over it all, was the possible misunderstanding of the results, and then, the possible use of the results to falsely claim that they objectively prove something that they in fact, do not. This came to light with the 25% vs 100% testing, where people used the improvement seen to justify using 100% (or more) coverage. But when you really look at the results, they clearly show hugely diminished returns by 100% coverage, gaining a performing 160% as well as 25% coverage, for 400% the cost, and that's ignoring that it does almost nothing at higher frequencies. This is where Don's post's came from, and I understand them after talking with him more on the subject. It seems that he has also gone down this path, with similar testing, and didn't feel comfortable releasing anything for these reasons.

I really had wanted to wait to release the info, until everything was finished, but ultimately, I caved in because this testing wouldn't be possible for me without the help I received from people on this forum. So, in the future, I will continue to release as I test, but I will be trying to better explain what the results show.



On another note, I got Silent Coat products in friday. I cut them monday, and that's where I ran into problems. They are the first product I have been unable to successfully use the die to cut. It is pulling apart the aluminum at the corners and edges. I cut other products afterwards, and they cut perfectly. I am going to test the samples that were damaged anyways, and then cut some with scissors, and test them as well. But there will have to be an asterisk next to the results, as its not quite the same as the others.

Damage to the multilayer product. This is a butyl, bitmen, and mastic product. It also smells heavily of heavy duty petroleum grease, like that used in heavy equipement. Its also a similar red in color as said grease.


This is their 4mm product, a butyl and mastic product.


And this is their 2mm product, a butyl and mastic product.


And this is the current test pile. At least one sample of all untested products, and several samples of already tested products for consistency testing. There will be more too.

 

Is there a brand name in the alu? if not than you might have old stock...

We use new stock in our shop and there's Silent coat pressed in the alu layer..

 

Chris, awesome job on this huge undertaking.

That's quite the test pile there (last pic)...
Is that a foam backed product in there? What's that?

 

GTMat Quadro. Supposed to be 60mil butyl, 4mil aluminum, 60mil butyl, 3/16" foam. I'm not sure if ill be able to measure the butyl layer, as it seems like removing the foam to measure it will damage the butyl layer, so we may just get a total thickness, and metal thickness.

 

Heat test and Removal video on some of the ones tested here but not all


Sound Deadener Heat Test Comparison - YouTube

 

Interesting. I haven't planned on doing adhesive testing in this round, because I didn't have a good way to do it. Next time I will, but of course ill need more of each brand to do it with. For heat testing, ill be measuring my firewall, since my car has the headers in the back of the engine bay, and the cat right under that. Whatever temp that comes out after an around town drive, is what ill use for the first temp, rounded up to the nearest 25 degree mark. Any product that fails that test, gets a zero for heat testing. After that, temp will go up to 400, as that's the highest rating of any of the current deadeners in the test. The ones that pass the first test, will be timed on how long they last on the second test.

 

And what if they outlast the second test?! I can bring by a oxy-acetylene torch.

 

At that point he would throw them at the sun. See which one lasts the longest

 

^lol, I was thinking of using the butane torch that I've been using to try to eliminate the black widow infestation of the neighborhood with.




I just got the ebay product in as well that was talked about a few pages back. Its interesting, no smell, but no aluminum either. Almost like duct tape, over rubber.

 

very interesting

 

TooStubborn,

I am really glad that you and Don worked things out. That says alot about both of you.

Keep at it.

 

Got Cascade Vmax in today. If anyone has a sample, no matter how small, I would really like to get some more in to verify some things. Anything around 1"x1" or bigger.

I measured the sample I got, the total thickness is right on spec, at 60mil. The aluminum thickness is way off. They claim that it is anodized 4mil aluminum, the sample I got is not anodized, but has a plastic layer, similar to the stuff on KnuKonceptz product. It burns off the same, and but seems thicker than the stuff on the Knu products. With the plastic still on, it measures 5mil thick, without it its down to about 2mil MAX, with some spots much less. Weight is right on spec.

 

Hey glad you got the VMax I sent, and wanted to reiterate that I picked it up open box on the classifieds here. I will be pissed if it isn't really VMax, but it did come in a V-MAXSP box, the sheets were the right size, and I havent installed any yet, so I didn't have any reason to suspect it wasnt authentic.