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16 channel DSPs?

6.5K views 34 replies 12 participants last post by  Slave2myXJ  
#1 ·
Besides the Zapco HDSP-Z16 and the Alpine PXE-X09, any other options for putting together 16 channels of DSPs with TA and all the other lovelies?

I've accumulated some Arc Audio parts and I'm thoroughly infatuated with the remote control, but I'm just not seeing a way to get TA for all channels without using a switch input to change presets. Between that and the limited number of presets, I'm looking at other options...

If it wasn't for the bad reviews of the Zapco software, ...
 
#2 ·
Besides the Zapco HDSP-Z16 and the Alpine PXE-X09, any other options for putting together 16 channels of DSPs with TA and all the other lovelies?

I've accumulated some Arc Audio parts and I'm thoroughly infatuated with the remote control, but I'm just not seeing a way to get TA for all channels without using a switch input to change presets. Between that and the limited number of presets, I'm looking at other options...

If it wasn't for the bad reviews of the Zapco software, ...
Maybe the Audison Forza amps with the DSP + companion amps?

Sent from my SM-S918U using Tapatalk
 
#6 ·
Source is currently a Kenwood CD player. Have dreams of putting together a Raspberry Pi and Touch Screen to play FLAC files through a SMSL PO100 Pro. I have all the hardware, just need to program it... The DAP in the Zapco would solve some issues...

Sub (1-channel)
Center (1-channel)
Midranges in D Pillars for Rear Fill without rear passengers (2-channels)
2-way in rear doors (4-channels)
4-way front (8-channels)

I'm not yet sold on the 4-way front, having just picked up a pair of Morel MM2 for my spaghetti thin A-Pillars. I mounted 4" mids in the kickpanels without too much issue, but I don't know that I'l be able to go bigger than 6.5s, so keeping the MW182s in the doors has it's perks. Tweeters taped to the Sail Panels for now. Not satisified with the stage height/depth compared my beater-with-a-heater so I picked up the MM2s.

I might be able to get it down to 14 channels, but I think 12 would limit me more than I'd like. With MW182s in the front and rear doors, it's as much "because I can" as it is for "SQ"...
 
#22 · (Edited)
The main question is what are you wanting or going to use the Center Channel for ???

...a Two Seat front tune, OR is the Center Channel just for the OEM warning chimes?

I honestly wouldn't bother with a Center Channel for a Two Seat front tune unless the DSP has an actual Licensed Center Channel Upmixing algorithm. And FYI, even the Helix with ACO, virtual channels, and "Real Center" is NOT a true Center Channel Upmixer. So there's that.

SECONDLY, you DO NOT need a 4-WAY Front Stage...

"Just Because I Can" is NOT a smart or beneficial approach! Before you do this, why not ask a Professional system installer and DSP tuner such as Nick Apicella, Jeffrey Hald, Mark Eldridge, @audiophile25, or Jim Becker their opinion on your system design and how difficult it will be to tune? AND how much they would charge to tune it, LOL?

The more speakers you have to time- and phase-align through the crossover regions and integrate overall, the more chances there will be for you to lose dynamic transients & impact, sharp image focus, and excellent linear L-to-R sound stage quality, because each speaker will be in a different location and will have completely different (non-matching) direct vs. reflected energy and more comb filtering and phase issues to deal with.

K.I.S.S.!

The ideal goal is to make all of the speakers in a front stage "act as single point source". The fewer speakers you need to have in order to cover the necessary bandwidth at your desired SPL, the better off you are! This gets exponentially more complex as you add additional drivers to the front stage that all play above the Schroeder Frequency. This is why a lot of carefully-designed 2-way home bookshelf speakers with a good, separate subwoofer will outperform a lot of much larger and more expensive 4-way tower speakers. And a 4-way home tower speaker is much simper to implement because all of the individual drivers are on the same baffle and in ideal enclosures!


THIRDLY, you DO NOT need MW182s in your Rear Doors! Get some good 6.5" pro audio midwoofer/midrange drivers or high-quality 2-way coaxials for the rear doors, such as the Alpine X-S65 or Morel Hybrid Integra 624 for example.



If you don't have Amplifiers yet, look at the 14-channel Alpine STATUS HDP-D90 with it's built-in 12-Channel Hi-Res Amplifier. You can get it for substantially less at a local authorized Alpine dealer.

You can run your Front Tweeters + Midrange drivers + Rear Door Coaxials + D-pillar Rear Fill with the built-in 8 x 50 watt amplifier channels, and the remaining built-in 4 x 80 watt channels can be Bridged for your front midbass. (You cannot bridge the Eight 50w channels). Add amps for your subwoofer(s) or a more powerful amp for your front midbass drivers.

The Alpine Tuning Software is actually Really Good. It has an excellent I/O routing matrix and versatile mixer, with automatic source signal switching like the Helix. The mixer functionality is also good for routing and mixing any OEM warning chimes into the system.

And one other really nice thing about the Alpine software is that the GUI window is Scale-able for different display sizes and screen resolutions. You can also use a Touchscreen for adjustments in Windows 10, or the arrow keys, mouse slider, or keyboard to input exact values. And Alpine has an iPad app for this DSP/amp.

It also has a built-in Test Tone Generator and signal RTA.

There's a 10-band Independent L & R Input P-EQ, and 31-band Independent Output P-EQ (or Graphic EQ) for every output channel. You can do your independent L & R EQ, and then very easily LINK the L & R EQ to apply Global changes to That Channel Pair (or Link as many independent channels as you want), and it will Not Over-ride your original independent L & R EQ settings when you "Un-Link" the channels again.

There is a simple 0°/180° phase switch for each channel, OR completely Variable Phase Rotation adjustment for Each Channel.

The channel muting/solo-ing/combining/Linking selection is easy once you learn how to do it.

AFAIK, the only real disadvantage IMO is not being able to import & apply generated EQ Filter Sets from REW. But that may be something that can be implemented with an update.

Yes, it may be expensive, but it is 14 channels at up to 32-bit/192kHz, and loaded with features. And remember that ANY solution that is available that will give you over 12 channels of processing (even at lower bit depth & sample rates) is going to be $$$$, and this also has 12-channels of very low THD & High SNR "Hi-Res" Amplification built-in...and will likely fit under most front seats. That's a BIG ASK.

The following video is a bit old and the software and features have been updated even further since then, but it is a good overview of the HDP-D90's DSP hardware, features, capabilities, and software...

 
#7 ·
The problem with most integrated amp/dsp solutions is the size. So far I've been able to keep everything under or beside my front seats. I could stash the Zapco, or similarly sized DSP just about anywhere, but the Helix and Alpine DSPs get to be a bit big. I appreciate the responses.
 
#9 ·
I like the idea of a miniDSP; not into tuning that much... I thought about daisy chaining one into the PS8-50 I have now; it's just making it work well-enough. I don't need perfect, but I'm not willing to sacrifice much. It is the cheapest option though. Two remotes wouldn't be the end of the world but there's really only space for one.
 
#11 ·
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the remote will only control one of them, so to switch presets, I'd have to use a separate switch to manually switch presets. Not the end of the world, just exploring my options...

Edit: It's not helping that the cost of a Zapco or Alpine 16-channel is roughly the same as a PS8-Pro...
 
#14 ·
Resolut M-DSP.

But you need to find good installer who's familiar with Resolut, as I heard many guys don't like to work with it.
Thanks, I'll check it out... Not sure where I'd buy it, but it doesn't seem impossible...
 
#18 ·
Interesting thought; Director + Conductor or Arc + Conductor. I can do the same with Arc and the "manual" preset selection using 12V inputs, which may be how this all plays out. Appreciate the input. I wish they'd release a 12 channel stand-alone to go along with the Nighthawk.
 
#24 ·
Thanks for the reply. I never looked at that one closely. I didn't realize it had 2 extra channels, but probably should have known...
 
#35 ·
If this rain ever stops, I'll be rearranging my outputs to try these MM2s in the pillars, at which point it will be back to just the fronts. The rear's aren't playing loud at all; it's a subtle difference... Any way I flip it, this PS8-50 doesn't have enough channels for all my wild ideas, so I'm looking to make that purchase of more processing power... Buy once, cry once, right? Just seeing what's out there that I may not be aware of...