Swanson's Performance
In short ... They are difficult to set up , difficult to use and difficult to partner with other equipment
But if you quite simply have to have the best sq car audio subwoofer ever made
Then this is the one to buy
They don't require huge power , but the box size is larger than average
The servo control corrects the inherrant distortion created by allmost every subwoofer
By taking a referance signal and comparing it with the output being produced
It compares them some 2000 times a second then corrects the input to remove the distortion
But if you quite simply have to have the best sq car audio subwoofer ever made
Then this is the one to buy
They don't require huge power , but the box size is larger than average
The servo control corrects the inherrant distortion created by allmost every subwoofer
By taking a referance signal and comparing it with the output being produced
It compares them some 2000 times a second then corrects the input to remove the distortion
They are great, but don't expect a lot of SPL.
The controller is picky about amps too. You will need an amp that is flat down to 5 hertz for it really to be happy.
I have the owners and installation manual at home from when I had my pair of 10s.
Truth be told, you could get as good of distortion performance from a lot of modern subs today. Back in the 90s not so much attention was paid to distortion in subwoofers, especially car marketed subwoofers.
But they are pretty sweet to have if you can afford them.
The controller is picky about amps too. You will need an amp that is flat down to 5 hertz for it really to be happy.
I have the owners and installation manual at home from when I had my pair of 10s.
Truth be told, you could get as good of distortion performance from a lot of modern subs today. Back in the 90s not so much attention was paid to distortion in subwoofers, especially car marketed subwoofers.
But they are pretty sweet to have if you can afford them.
much as i agree with parts of your statement modern woofers still arent anywhere near to the distortion levels of a velodyne with the servo correction
an "average woofer" such as the morel ultimo still has over 10% distortion
a velodyne has less than 1% after the servo
the velodyne has been the best automotive sq woofer for a long long time now
and until a company or individual decides to go down the same route and try servo correction again then it might just well be the best EVER
velodyne are no longer interested in the car audio market as they actaully lost money on the df10 and df12
i do however have the schematics for the controller and accelorometers and would love to adapt this to a more modern woofer
an "average woofer" such as the morel ultimo still has over 10% distortion
a velodyne has less than 1% after the servo
the velodyne has been the best automotive sq woofer for a long long time now
and until a company or individual decides to go down the same route and try servo correction again then it might just well be the best EVER
velodyne are no longer interested in the car audio market as they actaully lost money on the df10 and df12
i do however have the schematics for the controller and accelorometers and would love to adapt this to a more modern woofer
ya i gotting a pair of 15" velodyne subs back in 96' from a friends older brother he was in the home audio bussiness end and was really into SQ ! they retailed then for about $1200 each ! they were some of the finest quality subs out then ! and still are good ! but there are many now just as good ! and for half the cost ! but you also would defently have to use a good SQ amp to run them ! like infinity, diamond, audison, eclipse, zapco, clarion to name a few ! but in my opinion that price is a bit high even if they were brand new in the boxes !!! but still are good subs for SQ !
Yes I am nath from the talk audio forum some of you guys will also know me from judging iasca competitions a few years ago
And I've been using velodyne woofers since 1991
Velodyne are not the only company to manufacture a servo control other companies have done so
But most other companies only produce the controller not the sub itself
A test on the velodyne df 12 was done in car stereo and security magazine I have a copy of the magazine and the results
Which basically states the amount of distortion created by the velodyne was bordering on undetectable when the servo was connected , without it it registered around 18 per cent which for the time was also very good
Nowadays good woofers are capable of getting very close to 10 per cent
And I've been using velodyne woofers since 1991
Velodyne are not the only company to manufacture a servo control other companies have done so
But most other companies only produce the controller not the sub itself
A test on the velodyne df 12 was done in car stereo and security magazine I have a copy of the magazine and the results
Which basically states the amount of distortion created by the velodyne was bordering on undetectable when the servo was connected , without it it registered around 18 per cent which for the time was also very good
Nowadays good woofers are capable of getting very close to 10 per cent
the velodyne test was performed in the jan-feb issue of car stereo and security (no63) for anyone wishing to check it
the speaker itself is conventional the same as many but not all manufacturers
it uses a voice coil and a magnet
it was the servo control which made it differant to other manufacturers
i have a spare controller but dont have any accelorometers id like to try this on a 15" aliante subwoofer i have to see if its possible to calibrate the sub with the controller
if so ive a feeling it also could be pretty special
the speaker itself is conventional the same as many but not all manufacturers
it uses a voice coil and a magnet
it was the servo control which made it differant to other manufacturers
i have a spare controller but dont have any accelorometers id like to try this on a 15" aliante subwoofer i have to see if its possible to calibrate the sub with the controller
if so ive a feeling it also could be pretty special
It doesnt automatically correct for time but it does automatically correct for phase alignment
Compared to the original signal , this is then adjustable to align the driver with the rest of the system
The frequency response for the 12 in the reccomended size sealed enclosure is rated flat down to 13hz
Compared to the original signal , this is then adjustable to align the driver with the rest of the system
The frequency response for the 12 in the reccomended size sealed enclosure is rated flat down to 13hz
To all Velodyne owners - I have a DF10 and have used it for a couple of years now. I had a Soundstream Class A 10.2 Modified to play flat down as low as it can go by Gordon @ Genesis, it now sings after having all the LPF xovers removed and the power supply boosted up etc.. I am rebuilding the sub box atm and am wondering what effect it would have on the sub if it was smaller than recommended? 0.6-7 cubic feet as opposed to the recommended 1-1.5 cubic feet? I feel as if I'm getting a bit of a one note wonder atm - would this be a known indicator of an enclosure too small? Can you use fibrefill with a Velodyne? (I tried once before and it didn't seem to do much?)
Some interesting history about servo subs
In 1967, Arnie Nudell, PhD. was at work designing the world's first Q-switched pulsed ruby laser to be used in a laser rangefinder that would measure accurately the distance between an airplane and the ground. A servo-feedback system would then be used to control the inertia navigation system of the airplane for accurate positioning. During his laboratory work, Arnie realized that such a servo system would be able to also accurately control a loudspeaker, hence, the idea of a servo-controlled woofer.
Together with John Ulrich, Arnie designed the servo system and power amplifier to drive a woofer. Arnie called another friend - Gene Czerwinski - to make a special 18-inch woofer with a second winding on the voice coil to produce the feedback signal. The system worked! And the world's first servo-controlled woofer was born.
Together with an electrostatic panel developed by another two aerospace engineers, and a cabinet designed and built by Cary Christie in his garage, the first product was built - the Servo Statik I. This was in 1968, and Infinity was founded. Through the 70's Infinity grew until it was acquired by Harman International.
In the 80's, Arnie launched what was to be the first real high-end loudspeaker with the Infinity Reference Standard - or IRS. It was not originally meant to be a commercial product, but to be a statement of the highest reference standard for sound reproduction. It was the first speaker to use the Electro Magnetic Induction Tweeter - the first ribbon tweeter, and featured a line source of tweeters and midrange ribbons in a dipole configuration. It also had a total of twelve 12-inch woofers controlled by dedicated servo amplifiers. Nevertheless, the IRS proved to be a runaway commercial success. Excepted from; Genesis Advanced Technologies
John Ulrick’s account of the beginning;
We were supposed to be hard at work designing weapons systems for America - that's Arnie Nudell and me. Arnie and I worked at Litton Guidance & Control Systems in Woodland Hills, near L.A. We did build a weapons system, a laser rangefinder that measures the distance from an airplane to the ground for accurate bombing. We were also audiophiles, if there was such a term at the time. The year was 1967. I am an electronic engineer, Arnie a physicist. At Litton, my job was to design the electronics for the laser rangefinder and Arnie's was to design the world's first Q-switched pulsed ruby laser. This was the laser that supplied the pulse of light that went from the airplane to the "target" and bounced back, used to calculate the distance from the airplane to the target. Part of that system involved a mirror to point the laser beam at the target. I designed a servo-control system, which points the mirror and its switching amplifier. During lab testing of the servo-control system, Arnie noticed that the servo was controlling the mirror at 20Hz, a magic number to any audio person. Arnie had a good idea - why don't we make a servo-controlled woofer? We went across the hall to the Litton engineering library and found a book called Acoustical Engineering by Harry F. Olsen - the first bible of acoustics. The book had a page on Servo Controlled Speakers but no analysis, just a block diagram. We worked together to design the system. Arnie calculated the radiation resistance for the slopes and I designed the servo system and the power amplifier to drive the woofer. Arnie called his friend, Gene Czerwinski, to make a special 18-inch woofer with a second winding to generate the feedback signal. At the time Gene was an engineer at Bendix and making speakers in his garage. Gene later left Bendix to found Cerwin Vega. At this point one could wonder, who is making all these weapons systems? The woofer worked. There were two more aerospace engineers working at nearby Atomics International, Ron and Bob, making electrostatic panels. (The pentagon always said you must value the technology spin off from military research!) What a great combination, electrostatic panels that don't have much bass, coupled with an 18-inch servo-controlled woofer. The system was built and set up in Arnie's living room. Using a Sherwood amplifier to drive the electrostatic panels, the tweaking began. The amount of servo feedback changed. The crossover points moved and moved again.
Arnie and I decided to start a company. You could tell by the name there was no professional help in naming the company. The name was "Nutek" for Nudell Ulrick technology. We began selling a system called the "Servo-Static I" through a local dealer. The local dealer was about a mile from Litton and owned by Dr. Jim Henderson a physicist who you will hear more about later. All of this was still part time with a new guy involved, Cary Christie, a very talented industrial designer making the cabinetry in his garage. Arnie and I put out feelers to raise money and were finally backed by a rep firm that sold me electronic parts at Litton. No sophistication here either; we didn't even have a business plan because we didn't know what one was. A corporation was formed with Arnie and I holding equal interest. Fortunately, when we went to incorporate, the name Nutek was taken. The name Infinity was the third choice on the list, but available. The company name was Infinity, the year 1968. Again Arnie and I demonstrated our management prowess in choosing who was going to be the first president; we used the coin toss method. I was the president the first year and then we alternated for the first several years. What confusion! In August 1968 myself, Arnie and Cary and a couple of other people started full time in a 2,000 sq. ft. building in Chatsworth. Infinity was started. At the start, Infinity had three speakers; the Servo-Static I ($1800), the 2000, a bookshelf with electrostatic tweeters ($276) and the 1000, a 2 way bookshelf speaker. Excerpted from http://www.spectronav.com/tech2.htm
In 1967, Arnie Nudell, PhD. was at work designing the world's first Q-switched pulsed ruby laser to be used in a laser rangefinder that would measure accurately the distance between an airplane and the ground. A servo-feedback system would then be used to control the inertia navigation system of the airplane for accurate positioning. During his laboratory work, Arnie realized that such a servo system would be able to also accurately control a loudspeaker, hence, the idea of a servo-controlled woofer.
Together with John Ulrich, Arnie designed the servo system and power amplifier to drive a woofer. Arnie called another friend - Gene Czerwinski - to make a special 18-inch woofer with a second winding on the voice coil to produce the feedback signal. The system worked! And the world's first servo-controlled woofer was born.
Together with an electrostatic panel developed by another two aerospace engineers, and a cabinet designed and built by Cary Christie in his garage, the first product was built - the Servo Statik I. This was in 1968, and Infinity was founded. Through the 70's Infinity grew until it was acquired by Harman International.
In the 80's, Arnie launched what was to be the first real high-end loudspeaker with the Infinity Reference Standard - or IRS. It was not originally meant to be a commercial product, but to be a statement of the highest reference standard for sound reproduction. It was the first speaker to use the Electro Magnetic Induction Tweeter - the first ribbon tweeter, and featured a line source of tweeters and midrange ribbons in a dipole configuration. It also had a total of twelve 12-inch woofers controlled by dedicated servo amplifiers. Nevertheless, the IRS proved to be a runaway commercial success. Excepted from; Genesis Advanced Technologies
John Ulrick’s account of the beginning;
We were supposed to be hard at work designing weapons systems for America - that's Arnie Nudell and me. Arnie and I worked at Litton Guidance & Control Systems in Woodland Hills, near L.A. We did build a weapons system, a laser rangefinder that measures the distance from an airplane to the ground for accurate bombing. We were also audiophiles, if there was such a term at the time. The year was 1967. I am an electronic engineer, Arnie a physicist. At Litton, my job was to design the electronics for the laser rangefinder and Arnie's was to design the world's first Q-switched pulsed ruby laser. This was the laser that supplied the pulse of light that went from the airplane to the "target" and bounced back, used to calculate the distance from the airplane to the target. Part of that system involved a mirror to point the laser beam at the target. I designed a servo-control system, which points the mirror and its switching amplifier. During lab testing of the servo-control system, Arnie noticed that the servo was controlling the mirror at 20Hz, a magic number to any audio person. Arnie had a good idea - why don't we make a servo-controlled woofer? We went across the hall to the Litton engineering library and found a book called Acoustical Engineering by Harry F. Olsen - the first bible of acoustics. The book had a page on Servo Controlled Speakers but no analysis, just a block diagram. We worked together to design the system. Arnie calculated the radiation resistance for the slopes and I designed the servo system and the power amplifier to drive the woofer. Arnie called his friend, Gene Czerwinski, to make a special 18-inch woofer with a second winding to generate the feedback signal. At the time Gene was an engineer at Bendix and making speakers in his garage. Gene later left Bendix to found Cerwin Vega. At this point one could wonder, who is making all these weapons systems? The woofer worked. There were two more aerospace engineers working at nearby Atomics International, Ron and Bob, making electrostatic panels. (The pentagon always said you must value the technology spin off from military research!) What a great combination, electrostatic panels that don't have much bass, coupled with an 18-inch servo-controlled woofer. The system was built and set up in Arnie's living room. Using a Sherwood amplifier to drive the electrostatic panels, the tweaking began. The amount of servo feedback changed. The crossover points moved and moved again.
Arnie and I decided to start a company. You could tell by the name there was no professional help in naming the company. The name was "Nutek" for Nudell Ulrick technology. We began selling a system called the "Servo-Static I" through a local dealer. The local dealer was about a mile from Litton and owned by Dr. Jim Henderson a physicist who you will hear more about later. All of this was still part time with a new guy involved, Cary Christie, a very talented industrial designer making the cabinetry in his garage. Arnie and I put out feelers to raise money and were finally backed by a rep firm that sold me electronic parts at Litton. No sophistication here either; we didn't even have a business plan because we didn't know what one was. A corporation was formed with Arnie and I holding equal interest. Fortunately, when we went to incorporate, the name Nutek was taken. The name Infinity was the third choice on the list, but available. The company name was Infinity, the year 1968. Again Arnie and I demonstrated our management prowess in choosing who was going to be the first president; we used the coin toss method. I was the president the first year and then we alternated for the first several years. What confusion! In August 1968 myself, Arnie and Cary and a couple of other people started full time in a 2,000 sq. ft. building in Chatsworth. Infinity was started. At the start, Infinity had three speakers; the Servo-Static I ($1800), the 2000, a bookshelf with electrostatic tweeters ($276) and the 1000, a 2 way bookshelf speaker. Excerpted from http://www.spectronav.com/tech2.htm
use the VELODYNE without the servant thought so much better, do not believe the level of audible distortion is so great as to undermine the whole system.
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