You know, I've always thought you were awesome Patrick, but now that you've posted a spectral analysis of "The Humpty Dance" by Digital Underground, you are near approaching mythical Hero status...

 

(from memory)
Just a freestyle
meanwhile
keep the beat kickin'
sweat drippin'
girlies in the limo eating chicken
oops! don't get no grease on the panty hose
I love you rover, move over, I gotta blow my nose!

Damn, I miss the days when rap was actually good...

Being that I just use a single 12, I have no delusions about accurately reproducing those kind of frequencies. I can't even tell the difference with my Subsonic Filter on or off, so I leave it on to not waste power.

Let us know when you get your 3Hz tone faithfully reproduced. "Yo, yo, my Donk be hittin all the way down to DC!"

 

When you say "flat to 20hz" do you mean measurably flat or audibly flat? As in graphs will show flat or SOUNDS flat?

 

im a big fan of low lows, i built this about a week ago, having lots of fun.

http://i469.photobucket.com/albums/rr53/benlebow/60sbox.jpg

1500wrms available.

this has a nice very low sub kick thing going on


YouTube - Eminem - Yellow Brick Road

played to loud for to long and it makes me feel quite ill

i have a 3 way front that does pretty good down to about 60 hz,

my goal for my subwoofer is '60ndown' with lots of authority and accuracy @ 70 mph, leaning heavily(weighted) towards stronger output the closer to 25 hz it gets so its clear and clean over (road noise 70 + or - db from 20-500hz)

i drive a mini van

 

I have to cross my SX around 40hz to play regular music, or else tone it WAY down with the sub output via h/u. I know tuning @ 26hz isn't exactly the same as <15hz, but the low end reproduction is far superior to that of one in the 32+ ranges. I wouldn't have it any other way!

That is pretty interesting to see those graphs though.

 

I think when my subs dig really deep they hit the 40's.

What kind of power are we talking to reveal any sensations below say 15 hZ ? ... or can you actually hear at frequencies below say 18 hZ ?

 

Excellent thread!!!

I can get to 20hz ear flat. Well, I dunno. I feel more pressure in my ears and head, but it doesn't really sound as quite as loud as 30. I scoop the EQ out a bit from 25-50. It'll play down to 10 shaking the **** outta the car, but there's an undefeatable L/R ssf on my amp at that point.

:beerchug:

 

^Well, human ears are special and won't be same as each other. Some may able to hear it, some may not. And that's subjective to each individual.
Objectively, a properly calibrated mic and system may able to "see" those frequencies. Also we have to see how good is the recording and the equipments uesd to reproduce those so-called low frequencies.

If just playing a blind song, without the aid of machine, I doubt everyone can really tell accurately those low frequencies.

 

A car is probably the only real environment where conventional equipment has any hope of playing a <10hz tone with any authority. Cabin gain at 10hz is probably in the magnitude of 30db's in most vehicles. Regardless, still not something I'd be interested in. If you want tones that low a rotary fan style subwoofer is the only thing that gives you a good enough impedence match to the air to do it reliably. Beyond that it's ALOT of extra woofers, money and space to get any kind of output that low. Plus very few amps will even go that low, which is saying something lol, it's rare that electonics are the limiter.

 

Thigpen demo'd his rotary sub at the same show where Geddes demo'd his Summas... That was a fun weekend.

It was surprising how audible 5hz was; then again, I may have been hearing the harmonics.

 

2007 remake of Cars That Go Boom by Alize & Champaign:

vs. the original by L'Trimm:

Bass music has changed over the years

 

Young Jeezy "Put On" drops to 25-27Hz. I can't hear anything below about that. By 20Hz, I hear nothing...I feel it only.

If you've not heard of LLT (Large Low Tuning) for Home Theater, than you haven't seen/heard HT done right. We build 10-15cf boxes (per sub) & port them subsonic (typically 12-15 Hz) to make action movies come alive. There is TONS of subsonic stuff in your typical movie. You'd be surprised what happens.

 

Do you have a link to that Sourceforge tutorial. I'm trying to analyze a couple of song, and pretty much have it, but I could use some guidance.

 

Here's how to do it:

• Download Audacity (free)
• Open an mp3 or a wav in it. To analyse "The Matrix" I extracted the audio using Goldwave.
• Highlight part of the track. Not the whole thing - just part of it. The reason that you have to highlight part of the track is because it's easier to see the bass content by looking at a few seconds, instead of the entire track.
• Choose "Analyze" and then "Plot Spectrum."
• At this point you'll have a graph like the ones I posted. I used a logarithmic scale because that's the same kind of scale we use for frequency response measurements.

And that's it!

It's fun to see how a lot of tracks already include bass harmonics. This is one of the reasons that cheap subwoofers sound good on some music, but not others. The distortion is already "in the mix."

Once I finish building this 15hz tapped horn, I'll have to add some infrasonic harmonics to some tunes, and see how that works out. (kinda like that Audiocontrol processor does.)

 

Okay...that's the same thing I did. The problem I'm having is that I can't save an image of the plot. I'm running it in Ubuntu. I may switch over to Windows to try it.

 

Here's a few symphonic tracks that I like to listen to, depending on the mood I'm in.

Flim and The BB's- Funhouse
This is an older electronic jazz song...in fact it's one of the first songs made entirely on a computer. It's fairly dynamic, but it has a sub-testing crash about 5 minutes in.

Erich Kunzel- Start Trek/ Klingon Battle
This has some nice low rumbling about 3 minutes in..

Erich Kunzel- Superman/ Planet Krypton
This is an awesome track with a low rumble that builds up toward the end

 

Here's a few symphonic tracks that I like to listen to, depending on the mood I'm in.

Flim and The BB's- Funhouse
This is an older electronic jazz song...in fact it's one of the first songs made entirely on a computer. It's fairly dynamic, but it has a sub-testing crash about 5 minutes in.

Fun fact, this was the first non-classical CD released ever.

 

Damn Al, that first one must be KILLER on most ported setups. I bet that unloads most subs to mechanical limits QUICK.

 

It hits about like the cannons on the 1812 Overture...one and done :laugh:

 

I run a 15Hz subsonic because that is the lowest one, lol. I had 20Hz with my quad 12s IB. If I listened to tones 30-35 were a little louder not much, and 20 and 50 were about the same volume....by ear. Starting on my new baffle for the pair of 15s now that model to go lower better than the 12s, so we will see.

I get a lot of stuff around 20Hz in music, not all of it is actual music some is just 'presence' or whatever you want to call it. Like a bass drum hit, they go down there and you get the wump and you don't if your subs stop at 35. I'd guess the 12s went under 20 but I don't know how much dB they had. The 20 Hz tone is more like pressure than sound. All in all it is much the same effect as a big HT sub, you feel it, it is super fun in the car IMO.

Lol, my IB subs are always unloaded.

 

I'm working on designing a home sub right now... I'm aiming for 15hz flat and am considering getting a Maelstrom 21" sub w/passive radiators to do the trick...

I can't do an IB set up because I don't have enough room for a BIG box and the place is rented so walls are out of the question...

Any secret tips for hitting 15hz @/high SPL in-home in a small-ish space(lets say max 15-20cu. ft.)?

(I'm not trying to jack your thread, Patrick, so sorry if this is overboard.)

 

Actually I'm in the same boat! I had an eight-sub setup downstairs, but decided to tear it down, because it dominated the whole room. (It was basically a platform that the sub sat on, and it was 16 square feet.)

There was a couple of problems with the design:

• It was ugly
• More than half the woofers were cheap and conventional. (Audax HT240GOs)
• The TC Sounds fifteens sounded clean, but the Audax woofers were audibly colored

Based on that experience, I am building a 15hz tapped horn using a pair of Diyma 12s. I'll post the design on diyaudio.com once I'm done. It should work with some other woofers too, like the Eminence Lab 12.

It looks a lot like this:

Mine is a LOT bigger than this - over eight feet tall.

I'm using push-pull mounting to cancel second harmonic, so the box gets big in a hurry. It's big enough that I can stand inside of it.

 

AE had a setup with PRs, I don't recall how low it went. They used a pair opposed, said the big PRs vibrate a lot if you don't oppose them.

 

When mounting push pull how did you manage to get the motor structure of the R12 inside?

 

Nothing fancy - just "bumped" it out where one of the woofer enters the horn. Plans are here:

Night of The Living Bassheads - diyAudio

 

There's something oddly cool about the thought of a spectral analysis of the Humpty Dance.... you da man.

 

Why no option to vote for "flat to DC"?

>^..^<

 

I'm not sure what it is, but there is something lurking down lown on this track, and on this album.. My old 10's would hint at it, but beyond that.. lol..

 

lots of manson stuff has some sleazy low, low stuff.

 

Flat to 20! IMO, any lower is unnecessary for the type of music I listen to. Most of my music does not pass 20 Hz.

 

What can some one with a single ten in a sealed enclosure hope to achieve? An alpine type x.

When attempting to play subsonic, given lower frequencies need more power to play, what kind of power requirements are you looking at in order to have this kind of fun? And related to the above question, what kind of drivers and how does the enclose type effect this?

 

The short version is you need to move a lot of air to get low, that means huge xmax or multiple subs. Just get/make a tone CD and play it in your car, you will find out right away how low your sub gets and at where it becomes pointless to try to get more from it. Mine starts to make bass at 23Hz on a slow sweep, at 25 its doing well and it gets a hair more by 28 then pretty flat on up. Sure they are cheap pyle 15s, but that is a lot of cone area and since I don't need massive output (volume) they work pretty well so far. Xmax is on order of <.25" in normal listening. I don't run a subsonic right now it didn't seem to get as low with it on, even though that was a 15Hz SS and I was testing 25. I can feel lower than 23 but not hear it, and it has more lows with a window down. Right now a 500rms amp and plan to try smaller, with IB you don't usually need as much power.

Get the free WinISD program and punch your and some other sub specs into it, play with it, its not hard to use. Some subs are made to play in certain enclosures and certain frequencies, some can do various enclosures. An SPL sub/box will normally peak around 40-60Hz where it sounds loud, but it will not get deep say 30 or less. My 15s are IB, no box at all. They have good specs for IB but would not perform at all in a small box.

I have a temp MTX 10 in .87cf. It will play to 30Hz but it rolls off so you don't get that much down there. Its one of the lowest/flattest playing 10s I've ever heard in a small box at that price range. It is a 4510 it only handles 225rms. There are a lot of good subs out there but I tested a bunch of 12s that didn't get as low as this MTX, so be careful with cheaper subs if you are trying to get a particular sound (but that was in recommended boxes which are often on the small side and don't get as low, better to make your own box that does what you want).

The best you could do with your 10, is design a larger ported box. Model it to get as low as you can, if you go too low you will see the SPL drop off. At that point if you want lower its better to get a different sub. Typically you can't get much lower than Fs of a sub but thats not always true. You will see at some point making the box larger will not change things much, maybe at Vas give or take. You will see different subs react differently to changes, and you will see how SPL drops as you try to get really low. Also note you run out of xmax really fast down there.

 

Focal Utopia Be® 13 WS Shallow-mount 5" 4-ohm subwoofer at Crutchfield Signature

This sub will play lower than your ears can hear , it is a 5 inch model

Focal 5WS

15.8 Fs (Hz)

Power and Excursion Data Sensitivity (2.83V/1M in dB) 85.0 Continuous Power Handling(Watts RMS) 60 Peak Power Handling (Watts) 120 Xmax ([coil length-gap height]/2 in mm) 8.0 Xmax + 15% (mm) 9.2

* ShippingFREE

* Your Price$480.99

 

Focal Utopia Be® 13 WS Shallow-mount 5" 4-ohm subwoofer at Crutchfield Signature

This sub will play lower than your ears can hear , it is a 5 inch model

Focal 5WS

15.8 Fs (Hz)

Power and Excursion Data Sensitivity (2.83V/1M in dB) 85.0 Continuous Power Handling(Watts RMS) 60 Peak Power Handling (Watts) 120 Xmax ([coil length-gap height]/2 in mm) 8.0 Xmax + 15% (mm) 9.2

* ShippingFREE

* Your Price$480.99

:laugh: LOL, I'd like to hear that in a car. Small subs can't move the air required to compete at getting low, you can't change physics. Even the best huge xmax 8s have a hard time of it. You want low, you go big.