[pat_smith1969]

I checked out one of those inflation calculators. Apparently $500 in 1990 is equal to $841 today. I just paid $200 for a kenwood x4r, $130 for a 500w kenwood factor in a few more for speakers and for roughly the same amount of money you can have a very nice sounding system with MORE options (Specifically the DSP in the x4r).

 

[cubdenno]

I think we live on nostalgia. We remember our old systems with such fondness that our current setups/equipment seem to pail in comparison. I disagree that old stuff is automatically better. Sure a lot of that stuff is still around so I give them an A for longevity. We have no way right now of knowing if my korean made amp is going to be around in 15 years like my US made amp from 15 years ago. I do know that I payed less for my 1500 watt sub amp than my 15 year old 500 watt sub amp. My new amp runs cooler as well.

The power we run today would have cost a small fortune back then! How many teenagers are running around with a kilowatt+? How many of us from the late 80's early nineties were running around with a whole system off of a Punch 45? Or a Coustic 190? Or Phoenix Gold MS275?

The increase in power available radically altered the game. I think a lot of the trade offs were made outside of audible range for most people. Why pay 100 bucks more for an amp for .004% distortion when .04% is fine? I think head units with everything built in also helped. One can buy a brand new headunit with crossover, T/A, EQ for 300 bucks. Sometimes less!! Sure you can spend more for aesthetics, brand loyalty, some other bell or whistle, but the end result is the stuff today in comparison is cheaper and in my opinion, in most cases better.

It's just nostalgia!

 

[passtim]

I just blame the internet. Back in the day "Pre Internet" you could only buy local or if you were lucky enough, luck on to a good car audio magizine with listings, Old Crutchfield, Sixth Ave etc. Mid 80s Punch 150 $375ish,
Current Ebay RF T1500-1 same price shipped. The internet opened up a whole new world of marketing that the 80s-90s era can't compete with.

 

[IMADreamer]

I was just discussing this with friends over the weekend. We were talking about this local kid who has 4 Rockford 12s in his trunk (the low end series) and we all thought it didn't put out nearly the sound as our old 1 and 2 sub systems did 15 years ago when we were into shaking the whole block. I thought about chalking it up to that good old nostalgia feeling but I swear two solobaric 10s from 1994 would pound the hell out of this kids 4 12s.

Ah memories. Solobarics that were round, flat piston PPIs, Rockfords that had magnets the size of my head. Those were the days. lol

 

[DS-21]

I was just discussing this with friends over the weekend. We were talking about this local kid who has 4 Rockford 12s in his trunk (the low end series) and we all thought it didn't put out nearly the sound as our old 1 and 2 sub systems did 15 years ago when we were into shaking the whole block. I thought about chalking it up to that good old nostalgia feeling but I swear two solobaric 10s from 1994 would pound the hell out of this kids 4 12s.

Unless his box is incredibly poorly designed, that is unlikely. Solos were quite inefficient. By design: remember that the original marketing spiel was that it was two isobaric woofers in one (i.e. double the cone mass of other woofers). And they were awful-sounding, too. I suspect that if one measured them today s/he would find that they had heaping mounds of inductance. I never understood the nostalgia for those. Other woofers from that time, like the underhung PPI dinnerplates, the Aura Force line, or even primitive-by-modern-standards but well-optimized woofers like the old JL W6 line, were much, much better.

 

[audiogodz1]

I've always went for efficiency. Fact is that if you didn't have the oldschool system and rocked it you just don't get it. I've tried until blue in the face to describe to newbs about running efficient drivers instead of the LEAST efficient one's (big ass magnets, heavy cones) and they just stare blankly.... "This one is more power!".

You want to slam on 300 RMS? Drop by Credence and pick up (4) Lanzar 12's for $85 shipped.

 

[MarkZ]

I don't know what you guys are talking about. There's a much wider selection of high efficiency high output drivers than there ever was.

 

[BKH]

I've always went for efficiency. Fact is that if you didn't have the oldschool system and rocked it you just don't get it. I've tried until blue in the face to describe to newbs about running efficient drivers instead of the LEAST efficient one's (big ass magnets, heavy cones) and they just stare blankly.... "This one is more power!".

You want to slam on 300 RMS? Drop by Credence and pick up (4) Lanzar 12's for $85 shipped.

Thought about doing just that in my old two door tahoe just for kicks. Four of those on a old Punch 300 should be fun...
Back in 92 I was rocking 4 Kicker C-10's on a Linear Power 1502iq, Kicker mids and tweets on a 992iq and 652iq, and it sounded GREAT, and was 315 rated watts. Of course it required a blow-thru and about 6 cubes....

 

[sqshoestring]

I think people just don't set systems up that way anymore. I just pulled four 1252w/1262w infinity 12s out of my trunk, heavy things for sure when you have four. I was running the kicker 700.5 that is 420rms on the 2 ohm load. I had the EQ kind of flat, meaning 20-31 was boosted and 50hz cut, with a 50 LP, very anti SPL. I used to run quad 10s IB a lot, chit, these things would shake the f out of the rear of the car compared to those. No they are not twice as loud, but deeper and louder. I could not hear the highs they were too much if I maxed them out, so certainly they are better. Yeah they are 12s not 10s, but no I didn't need 400rms on them (100 each). I ran around 100rms on them and they were respectable just not that loud. So I'd say they did more than the old 10s on that same 300rms I used to run back then. Sure some amps I ran were low as 160rms on the 10s at 2 ohms...but the kicker is cea too and they were not. I was surprised the infinity did that well, they say 150rms for IB use in the manual, (300rms for box), and they were on sale for a while for $50 each what more does one want....just as one example. On the other hand I ran one in a box sealed and ported, you are going to need a larger box to get some bottom 1.25 was a joke....just like the old days. I used to run 2cf per 10 ported, sometimes sealed, but IB was nicer. Soon the pyles will get into my trunk, can't wait lol.

IMO a lot of the good mass brand cheaper speakers sound good, and don't need much power. I think many poo-poo them for no good reason, or kids over power them and blow them, but I've had good luck for many years. Unfortunately sometimes you have to buy a few sets to find the better ones for your car. You should see the pos in the rear doors of my car I'm pulling out. They are cheap 35rms pioneer coax, they bottomed at 80Hz, I actually duct taped the back of the basket 90% shut and ran them at 100HP on more power, they work fine and sound great. Got them used for $15 shipped on epay had to toss something in there. Unfortunately they don't help my midbass much at all.

The fronts are nice bostons, but they do seem to want a lot of power. I had an ancient set of kenwood comps before that they sounded better on less power went nearly as loud. I mean ancient too like 20yr old. Not sure what I will put in there yet.

 

[ZAKSGSR]

I think the issue today is how many more cheap products are available with outlandish claims. I remember installing an US Amps 100 (i think) on 2 Soundstream SPL 12's in my first car and it was insane. I think you could take those parts numbers they have listed today under the same names and models and you would get half the output. I am a bit partial to old stuff but the mid-line JL, Phoenix, RF and Kicker are providing solid power at reasonable pricing. Once you venture into lower dollar per watt ratings, you get EXACTLY what you pay for.

 

[audiogodz1]

In the end you are going to run what you like and what makes you happy and what makes me happy is popping the trunk and looking at something familiar and loved for decades. Something that has a lot of great memories that I am comfortable with, and something I am familiar with so I know how to make it do exactly what I want. If we keep replacing what we truly WANT with "logical decisions that fit the trunk better" we'll compromise our way to a cold unfamiliar world of "not quite what we wanted".

A buddy of mine has a new 2009 F-150 and an old 1989 box S-10 truck. The new truck does everything better, but he drives that old S-10 everywhere that he has owned for 20 years. Why? Because we are human. We are not robots. What's "best or better" doesn't define what is best for you. He LIKES his F-150, he LOVES his S-10.

The best equipment I have ever ran has been whatever appealed to me for whatever reason. That's why the "old school memories" are sweet because you ran stuff you loved. It's why the internet is not the best place to build a system if you don't know what you are looking for. Back in the day we got our hands on it and smelled it, touched it, dropped a few hundred watts into it and decided if we liked it. Some people liked the US Amps because they had Plexi bottoms. What are the specs on them? "good enough, look at that plexi". That's not wrong..... It's right. It's getting what you like. You're not a robot, you have opinions and some things you like for no good reason, you just like it.

....and that's what's up. Old school equipment is better because it has soul. It has cute sayings engraved into the motherboards, it has an owners manual written in english, It has a made in the USA stamp on the side. It has things that appeal to you that you the human like. Numbers are for computers. That's the reason everything has lost it's personality today, everyone is spec buying on the internet. We don't choose anything these days just because we like it. People are losing their ability to decide. "read this paper full of numbers, that will make you like it". The hell with that, let me touch it and hook it up and hear it.

Can todays manufacturers compete against yesterdays more efficient products? Hell no they can't. They have no soul, they sell blank emotionless made in china cookie cutter products designed by a computer. They have no idea to appeal to someone's senses. They just know how to make you buy it based on specs. That's not enjoying your hobby to me, that's buying into what someone else tells you to enjoy. They cannot compete because a computer cannot feel emotion, and that's all they are using to design products these days.

That's the only reason why I ever bothered to own an L.A.Sound product was they were fun, cheap, enjoyable. Horrible products for competing in a competition, but great stuff when you popped open the trunk and saw the little surfer dude staring back at you on a surf board in bright colors. That's APPEALING, it has emotion. It's what I'll remember when I think back to running the crossover or the midbass. I might not remember the sound, but I'll remember how cool the stuff was. If L.A. Sound came back tomorrow and re-reelased every bit of the old line all the way down to the Malibu 100, I'd buy it just because it was appealing to a human emotion.

Have a little fun people, you're not robots...............yet.

 

[Knobby Digital]

Quantifiable aspects of performance < Fuzzy feelings?


When it comes to personal relationships and art appreciation. Yes.

 

[MarkZ]

I can honestly say I don't "love" audio equipment. Maybe I just haven't found my amplifier soul mate?

 

[audiogodz1]

Quantifiable aspects of performance < Fuzzy feelings?

Yep. Once you get past the level of "good enough" in car audio it matter less about spec sheets and more about personal taste. If persons can't see that, they are already robots. Of course on this site there are plenty who think they can spec sheet their life. Whatever works for ya........

 

[Knobby Digital]

Yep. Once you get past the level of "good enough" in car audio it matter less about spec sheets and more about personal taste. If persons can't see that, they are already robots. Of course on this site there are plenty who think they can spec sheet their life. Whatever works for ya........

Define "good enough".

 

[audiogodz1]

I will not. You are asking me to product a spec sheet for you. This is all you know how to define equipment by. I'm afraid the big picture is not playing in your area.

 

[Knobby Digital]

"Good enough" by your definition, then.

But that's not what I was asking (spec sheets).

And I live in Hollywood, BTW.

 

[MarkZ]

Your complete disdain for measurable parameters suggests that you don't understand what they mean.

 

[Knobby Digital]

And I have to say, you must got me ****ed up.

MarkZ and I had a discussion on the merits of the cassette tape in a thread about "reference", "SQ" music.

 

[audiogodz1]

Your complete disdain for measurable parameters suggests that you don't understand what they mean.

And your inability to simply like somthing without having a reason suggest you've never liked anything in your life that wasn't a "logical" decision to purchase.