The Fiio x5 and x7 now offer USB audio out, but the reviews of the units themselves are not great so i am holding off making a purchase. Hope this thread gets some traction.

 

DAPs with the Helix DSP MK2 & USB AUDIO Card





Exactly my thoughts, plus apparently the Fiio’s are a little glitchy and aren’t that refined (GUI wise) before they’re released

 

Well I have the Fiio X5 and have been happy with mine. Again I am no way a DAP expert, but when something works for me, I tend to be happy with it. I’m sure there are readily ones that will blow mine out the water, but without a cost factor I’m not sure how much those would cost.

 

Thanks Coppertone thats great to hear. How would you say the X5iii sounds on your car audio system vs using the internal amp with quality headphones?

 

I am on my third Fiio X3 and I have no complaints. Connected via coax to MiniDSP on my cars and even one for my home audio...
Personally, I would never go back to swapping out factory HUs for aftermarket or using factory HUs as source... It's really nice using DAPs, imho.

As far as which one to get, I would spend time on headfi.org. You will come across great DAPs that you have never heard of that outperform many of the better known brands.


Edit: Check out Shanling and Cayin

 

I am on my third Fiio X3 and I have no complaints. Connected via coax to MiniDSP on my cars and even one for my home audio...

Personally, I would never go back to swapping out factory HUs for aftermarket or using factory HUs as source... It's really nice using DAPs, imho.



As far as which one to get, I would spend time on headfi.org. You will come across great DAPs that you have never heard of that outperform many of the better known brands.





Edit: Check out Shanling and Cayin

Great advice, thanks bud. And yes
I’ve already spent a little bit of time on headfi.org already but there’s soooo many more posts I need to read. I’m just hoping that the DAP I finally settle on will be completely compatible with my Helix DSP

 

DAPs with the Helix DSP MK2 & USB AUDIO Card

Has anyone on here used the iBasso DX150 in their car?
http://ibasso.com/cp_xq_dy.php?id=6517#page8

As I just want to make sure the Helix Pro Mk2 DSP is completely compatible with the digital coax out from the iBasso DX150 audio wise.

 

Has anyone on here used the iBasso DX150 in their car?
iBasso DX150

As I just want to make sure the Helix Pro Mk2 DSP is completely compatible with the digital coax out from the iBasso DX150 audio wise.

I use my iBasso DX90 & DX200 via Coaxial Digital Output into the Helix DSP PRO MK2 with no issues. FYI, as long as the Coax Digital Output from the DAP is a standard S/PDIF PCM signal (and AFAIK all DAPs are), it should work perfectly.

I also use the 8" Samsung Galaxy Tab S2 8.0 LTE/WiFi Phablet (#SM-T715Y) as the source in my car audio systems. It is connected using the small OEM Samsung USB OTG Adapter & a generic USB cable to the Helix DSP's USB HEC input...and it works great. It is basically identical in size and form factor to the iPad Mini.

I've also used the tiny SMSL X-USB XMOS USB adapter to extract Optical or Coaxial Digital from the Tab S2 into the corresponding Helix DSP inputs, and that has worked great as well.

As my Music Playback app, I usually use USB Audio Player Pro, which has a Custom Audio Kernel that completely bypasses the standard Android/Samsung audio kernel in order to provide true, bit-perfect DSD & Hi-Res WAV and FLAC playback. The developers of the UAPP app are VERY active in updating the app to add & improve features, and IMO it just keeps getting better and better. Combined with the large, clear, and bright 8" SuperAMOLED screen on the Tab S2, this UI is quite usable.

But everyone will have their own personal preferences regarding what Music Player apps they like best, as each one has somewhat different features, GUI's, and customization capabilities.

This particular 8" Samsung Phablet is also a GSM Cellular Phone, so it has LTE/HSPA+ Data & Calling via a nano SIM card...So I can easily use Streaming Services and use it for Google NAV, etc.

The Galaxy Tab S2 also has a single microSD card slot which currently has a 400gb microSD card in it for music storage. I use the 8" Tab S2 with my original iPhone Unlimited Plan SIM on AT&T. THE 8" Phablet actually fits in nearly all of my back pants pockets, which makes it easily portable for regular every-day tablet use.

The Galaxy Tab S2 also has Apt-X Bluetooth, which sounds excellent when using my AKG N5005 IEMs with its included Apt-X BT adapter or in my car audio systems as well.

I also had the newer HiBy R6 DAP, but my unit had WiFi connection issues so I sold it. I am really hoping that HiBy updates the Hardware to fix this common issue. I wanted the HiBy R6 DAP in order to Stream music via Tidal HiFi and other services, so its WiFi connection issues made it a No-Go. Otherwise this was an AMAZING DAP, especially at the price!!! It has a true Snapdragon processor and 3GB of RAM so the UI was MUCH smoother & faster than any of the newer FiiO or other DAPs that I've tried.

Only the really expensive Astell & Kern DAPs ($2000+) have really good/fast processors and plenty of RAM. Nearly all other DAPs use old, cheap, weak ARM Cortex processors and have limited RAM so IMO they are much more laggy than your typical Smartphone, which is frustrating for me, especially for use in a vehicle.

Overall, when using a DAP combined with one of the Helix DSPs, I think that the easiest and most reliable connection is to use the coaxial digital output. And I really haven't experienced any deficiencies in SQ when using Coaxial over the other connection methods. This also allows standard charging of the device using the USB port. The only drawback is that you have to make two connections instead of one in order to achieve audio output + charging.

 

The Coax in should work as long as it's a pcm stream from the dap.
Just make sure you have the digital audio volume turned up as there are 2 level controls when using the digital or hec inputs.
Really like that little iBasso unit, I went with the FiiO X5 mp3 as I got a good deal on it.

 

That’s great info thanks mate. Yes you’re right, most DAPs with digital out will have a PCM stream.

Now to determine if I get the Fiio X5iii ($450 AU) or get the ibasso DX150 for $300 more. What are your thoughts on the X5iii? Does it crash often? Or is there anything you don’t like about it or wish it had?

 

Mine has been solid so far, no crashes at all, Skizer could answer better than I can though as he has used the FiiO longer than I have.
The FiiO seems to do everything I need it to do and probably more, I cant really think of anything I wish it had.

The extra for the iBasso probably wont be noticed, the better converters aren't used when the PCM stream is fed to the Helix DSP.
The AKM dac's in the Helix do all the work.

Astell Kern makes a nice DAP that wont break the bank.

 

Mine has been solid so far, no crashes at all, Skizer could answer better than I can though as he has used the FiiO longer than I have.



The extra for the iBasso probably wont be noticed, the better converters aren't used when the PCM stream is fed to the Helix DSP.

The AKM dac's in the Helix do all the work.



Astell Kern makes a nice DAP that wont break the bank.

Thanks for you input I really appreciate it. With the Fiio X5iii do you notice any lag or unresponsiveness at times with the 1GB RAM or does it have smooth operation like an iPhone? Also have you listened to the X5iii with headphones as yet, how does it sound using its own DACs/Amplification?

 

Nobody using carplay or google auto? I got to have my steering controld

 

Yes I am.

However after building a great SQ system over the last 4 years I really want a Hi-Res source that digitally connects directly into the processor. I also want to reduce a few D->A conversions too

 

I have not used the earphones, Mine is solely for the car.
As far as it being unresponsive I haven't experienced anything like that with it.
For storage I use the SD cards I have in it, So far with a 256gb and 128gb sd installed it has worked flawlessly.
The only issue I have has has been when my RM-1 bluetooth remote battery died.

I really wish someone made a tablet size DAP that I could fit under my factory radio, The small ones are nice for carrying around but are a little hard to use in the car.

 

I have not used the earphones, Mine is solely for the car.

As far as it being unresponsive I haven't experienced anything like that with it.

For storage I use the SD cards I have in it, So far with a 256gb and 128gb sd installed it has worked flawlessly.

The only issue I have has has been when my RM-1 bluetooth remote battery died.



I really wish someone made a tablet size DAP that I could fit under my factory radio, The small ones are nice for carrying around but are a little hard to use in the car.

Thanks for sharing your experiences bud. It sounds like the X5iii is nice and stable nowadays. I’ve just read many early posts on headfi.org where there were quite a few complaints about the unit crashing & having glitchy software etc. Obviously Fiio have sorted the these issues with newer firmware [emoji3].

As for larger DAPs, have you thought about possibly using a phone like the LG V30 or the Sony Xperia XA1 Ultra. Here’s a size comparison between the X7ii and the Sony phone (4” vs 6” screen)

 

Those are possibilities, If I can get my HEC-HD usb to work I can use my tablet.
For some reason I have not had any luck getting any of my USB devices to play thru the HEC in my Mk2.
If I cant get the USB to work I found and Musical Fidelity V-LINK to convert my USB audio to SPDIF, Its not quite what I wanted to do but if it works then great.
I have the perfect place to mount my Samsung tablet in my center console that I have been trying to get working for a week now with no luck.

 

DAPs with the Helix DSP MK2 & USB AUDIO Card

Those are possibilities, If I can get my HEC-HD usb to work I can use my tablet.

For some reason I have not had any luck getting any of my USB devices to play thru the HEC in my Mk2.

If I cant get the USB to work I found and Musical Fidelity V-LINK to convert my USB audio to SPDIF, Its not quite what I wanted to do but if it works then great.

I have the perfect place to mount my Samsung tablet in my center console that I have been trying to get working for a week now with no luck.

Yeah a tablet is definitely the go when driving. Most of the time I’ll just use my Pioneer headunit with CarPlay and FLAC filled SD card. However when sitting in my car to enjoy what my system is really capable of doing I really want to use a hi-res DAP (like the X5iii) as the source

 

So I've tried just about everything I could to get the USB HEC working with no luck.
Tried a different set of OTG cables, different player software for both my tablet and my X5 mk3 even tried a PC with the Audiotech Fischer drivers installed.
It will switch over like it sees the signal when I press play on the DAP or PC but no audio.
Audio files are FLAC so DoP and D2P shouldn't be a factor but I have it set to D2P
My Coax SPDIF work perfectly with the X5 so no great loss.
If someone wants to test this USB HEC just let me know and I'll ship it to ya.

 

So I've tried just about everything I could to get the USB HEC working with no luck.

Tried a different set of OTG cables, different player software for both my tablet and my X5 mk3 even tried a PC with the Audiotech Fischer drivers installed.

It will switch over like it sees the signal when I press play on the DAP or PC but no audio.

Audio files are FLAC so DoP and D2P shouldn't be a factor but I have it set to D2P

My Coax SPDIF work perfectly with the X5 so no great loss.

If someone wants to test this USB HEC just let me know and I'll ship it to ya.

Thank you for the heads up on this geartech. I too was going to try the X5iii (when I get it soon) with both digital coax and USB as I have the HEC USB HD AUDIO card with my Helix DSP too. Now I know not to even bother. I’ll just leave the HEC USB HD AUDIO card for my iPhone and the digital coax for the X5iii

 

Great Thread! Iv'e learned a lot.

Firstly, let me say i also like the idea of connecting a digital source directly into a DSP, as this reduces the number cables and devices the audio has to go through and also the the number of DAC's (to 1). In today's world where our library's are in Tidal/Spotify/Apple Music, it makes perfect sense, for pure music listening purposes there's no need for a head unit these days.

With that in mind, i have long wondered and searched for a DSP that is 'made for ipod/iphone' so i can plug the phone directly into it via USB and it can read the files much like a docking station or a modern head unit does. It appears this thread has answered my question as i wasn't aware of the Helix product line before. The HEC card appears to solve this exact need, although i wonder why they didn't build it into the DSP to begin with instead of having to purchase a separate card. I also like the 'Director' controller, looks much better than the Alpine and Audison DSP product offerings.

It appears from this thread however that the HEC USB input only works with IOS and Android devices and wont accept USB digital audio from any other device such as a DAP, which means you have to use the Optical/Coaxial in these cases.

This got me pondering a couple questions...

1) Why even bother with buying a DAP if you can simply pug the IOS/Android phone directly into the HEC via USB. Is there a difference to using a DAP that is going in via the optical route?

2) If answer to above is yes then what is the difference? say you have a DAP with Tidal on it such as the Fiio X7ii or Onkyo DP-X1A going to the HEC via optical playing a track. You also have an Iphone with Tidal playing the same track into the HEC via the USB cable. Is there any difference or advantage of one over the other?

I understand that the DAP has to convert the audio file into a PCM stream to send over optical to the HEC, is there anything lost in this process or any DAC happening on the DAP side?

With the Iphone connected via USB, it is reading the audio file directly of the IPhone? Or perhaps the iphone also converts to a PCM stream, maybe apple only knows how it's lightening port outputs digital audio, hence why third party companies have to license their products 'made for iphone'.

Sorry for any long winded and possibly dumb questions, fairly new here

 

DAPs with the Helix DSP MK2 & USB AUDIO Card

The reason I want a DAP is purely for a storage device of my own...as the X5iii can accept two 256GB micro SD cards whereas my work iPhone is only 16GB [emoji20]
Also I’m led to believe that USB can be a little noisy and can be fiddly to setup whereas a DAP with digital coax out just plugs straight into the Helix Pro Mk2 DSP and just works straight away. I too have the HEC USB card so I may just use that for Tidal/Spotify on my iPhone as these streaming services just seem to work better on a smart phone. Also the smart phones obviously have cellular inbuilt whereas the DAP would need to use the phone as a personal hotspot to stream data when in the car anyway (ie away from a modem/wifi)

 

Re: DAPs with the Helix DSP MK2 & USB AUDIO Card

The reason I want a DAP is purely for a storage device of my own...as the X5iii can accept two 256GB micro SD cards whereas my work iPhone is only 16GB [emoji20]
Also I’m led to believe that USB can be a little noisy and can be fiddly to setup whereas a DAP with digital coax out just plugs straight into the Helix Pro Mk2 DSP and just works straight away. I too have the HEC USB card so I may just use that for Tidal/Spotify on my iPhone as these streaming services just seem to work better on a smart phone. Also the smart phones obviously have cellular inbuilt whereas the DAP would need to use the phone as a personal hotspot to stream data when in the car anyway (ie away from a modem/wifi)

That makes sense. I agree the apps works better on the phone although i'm sure the Android based DAP's will only get better. You raised a good point there about no 4G/LTE on the DAP. of course Hotspot is a work around but just makes things cumbersome when a passenger says 'oh can you play this song for me' lol. Also didnt realise the USB option can be fiddly at times.

With all that taken into account i think the best option for me is to save money on a DAP and instead get the highest storage iphone there is (i believe 256gb) and use via USB. If the USB option is proving fiddly can always buy the apple CCK kit and then an adaptor to go lightening port to Optical.

However i have read that the Apple digital out has a max sampling rate of 48khz, meaning if you have 96khz files in tidal or on the phone they get down sampled to 48.

So actually maybe the DAP is the better option after all.

 

Good thread - good discussion - there was an earlier thread with much of the same info, but can’t link it here in Tapatalk.

I have the following sources:
Pioneer P99 - RCA out into Helix Pro2
FiiO X5iii - coax out to Helix Pro2
iPhone - USB into Helix Pro 2

I have really enjoyed the FiiO - I travel a lot, so it is useful for CIEMs and for a source at headphone meets (plug directly into DACs via coax). Yes - I have my issues with the player (longer start up period than the ii but to be expected), hard button pause is my biggest complaint).

I downloaded the HiByMusic app, and that doesn’t have the pause issue, but it runs on the Android side, so start up, the start up that app. I find the GUI on it more confusing as well.

I hadn’t reviewed the Head-Fi thread in a while (some of those guys are whiny) - I hadn’t read that it supports USB out. My path was going to be add the USB cable, use the phone until the FiiO supports USB, then pull the coax. Not sure I will do that. Both sound equivalent to me and many I have had in the car (both sound a lot better than the P99 - to me and several who have been in my car).

I love having 32GB internal memory + two 256 cards in the FiiO - whatever mood strikes me. But...if I’m just running out to the store and back, I like hooking the iPhone X to the system - faster and easier.....just limited on what I can listen to.

Hope this helps - feel free to ask specific questions, and I’ll try to answer.


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Very nice set-up, what do you use the P99 for out of curiosity?

 

Turns the system on......

And that is not needed with signal sensing, but I prefer a ‘hard’ on/off - turning off the system before turning off the car every time.

There are those occasions of giving a demo with someone’s preferred demo disc - I like having the opportunity to play a disc.


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Jason did we ever come to the conclusion on Fiio coax vs iPhone? I can hardly tell a difference but maybe my (your former) X5ii signal is slightly stronger.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

Looked into it a lil. How is it supposed to stream music? Is it a phone or just a WiFi enabled iPod basically.

Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk

 

Looked into it a lil. How is it supposed to stream music? Is it a phone or just a WiFi enabled iPod basically.

The HiBy R6 is basically a Hi-Res WiFi-enabled iPod and/or very similar to the FiiO X5-III or X7-II, iBasso, and Astell & Kern DAPs. It is not a cell phone and doesn't have its own cellular data capabilities. Just 2.4ghz & 5ghz WiFi and Bluetooth with Apt-X.

 

I use my iBasso DX90 & DX200 via Coaxial Digital Output into the Helix DSP PRO MK2 with no issues. FYI, as long as the Coax Digital Output from the DAP is a standard S/PDIF PCM signal (and AFAIK all DAPs are), it should work perfectly.



I also use the 8" Samsung Galaxy Tab S2 8.0 LTE/WiFi Phablet (#SM-T715Y) as the source in my car audio systems. It is connected using the small OEM Samsung USB OTG Adapter & a generic USB cable to the Helix DSP's USB HEC input...and it works great. It is basically identical in size and form factor to the iPad Mini.



I've also used the tiny SMSL X-USB XMOS USB adapter to extract Optical or Coaxial Digital from the Tab S2 into the corresponding Helix DSP inputs, and that has worked great as well.



As my Music Playback app, I usually use USB Audio Player Pro, which has a Custom Audio Kernel that completely bypasses the standard Android/Samsung audio kernel in order to provide true, bit-perfect DSD & Hi-Res WAV and FLAC playback. The developers of the UAPP app are VERY active in updating the app to add & improve features, and IMO it just keeps getting better and better. Combined with the large, clear, and bright 8" SuperAMOLED screen on the Tab S2, this UI is quite usable.



But everyone will have their own personal preferences regarding what Music Player apps they like best, as each one has somewhat different features, GUI's, and customization capabilities.



This particular 8" Samsung Phablet is also a GSM Cellular Phone, so it has LTE/HSPA+ Data & Calling via a nano SIM card...So I can easily use Streaming Services and use it for Google NAV, etc.



The Galaxy Tab S2 also has a single microSD card slot which currently has a 400gb microSD card in it for music storage. I use the 8" Tab S2 with my original iPhone Unlimited Plan SIM on AT&T. THE 8" Phablet actually fits in nearly all of my back pants pockets, which makes it easily portable for regular every-day tablet use.



The Galaxy Tab S2 also has Apt-X Bluetooth, which sounds excellent when using my AKG N5005 IEMs with its included Apt-X BT adapter or in my car audio systems as well.



I also had the newer HiBy R6 DAP, but my unit had WiFi connection issues so I sold it. I am really hoping that HiBy updates the Hardware to fix this common issue. I wanted the HiBy R6 DAP in order to Stream music via Tidal HiFi and other services, so its WiFi connection issues made it a No-Go. Otherwise this was an AMAZING DAP, especially at the price!!! It has a true Snapdragon processor and 3GB of RAM so the UI was MUCH smoother & faster than any of the newer FiiO or other DAPs that I've tried.



Only the really expensive Astell & Kern DAPs ($2000+) have really good/fast processors and plenty of RAM. Nearly all other DAPs use old, cheap, weak ARM Cortex processors and have limited RAM so IMO they are much more laggy than your typical Smartphone, which is frustrating for me, especially for use in a vehicle.



Overall, when using a DAP combined with one of the Helix DSPs, I think that the easiest and most reliable connection is to use the coaxial digital output. And I really haven't experienced any deficiencies in SQ when using Coaxial over the other connection methods. This also allows standard charging of the device using the USB port. The only drawback is that you have to make two connections instead of one in order to achieve audio output + charging.

That’s great information. Thank you very much for the detailed reply bbfoto.

 

No worries. I should also state that both of my iBasso DAPs sound absolutely fantastic when connected via their Analog Line Outputs to the Helix DSP PRO MK2's analog RCA line inputs. You might need to pay a bit more attention to your gain structure to achieve optimum S/N during setup, but otherwise the analog line output is indistinguishable from the digital connection (and I don't know how, but in some cases I *think* the analog connection may sound better)! :surprised:

 

HiFi players are cool, expensive at the same time, why not run a tablet, or ipad ? going straight in to dsp via usb card, Thats what I did, i use samsung galaxy s2 connected through usb straight in to dsp.

 

I’m actually starting to sway this way. I actually have a 64GB iPad mini, but I’m wondering if I should get a Samsung Galaxy S2 as well? What size storage can you expand the memory to on the S2? And what’s the hi-res audio sampling rate limited to on the S2? Thank you

 

Thanks Billy! I never considered the Onkyo player on my iPhone.....just downloaded and upgraded - I like the interface a bit better than the Music app (that always has tagging issues). I’m looking forward to playing it in the car - putting a high res album or two on the phone.


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DAPs with the Helix DSP MK2 & USB AUDIO Card




That Onkyo app is legit. The unfortunate thing is the roundabout way you cannot easily load or manage a library to and from PC to phone without dealing with iTunes which won’t import high-res into library. So you can’t just keep high-res stuff in iTunes to import it so Onkyo player will see it.. That I’m aware of. I could be wrong lemme know if so.


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I found a way to finally get my Android tablet to work in my install, For some reason I could not get my HEC usb to work with me Helix DSP and I really like the bigger screen of a tablet over the FiiO X5 Mk3.

I ended up finding a USB to coax converter on Amazon, Topping D10.
For the money it is a really nice unit and will decode pretty much anything you run thru it.

Now it's not a perfect solution but it works, The HEC never did work for some reason. For $89.00 it seems like a decent option plus it got pretty good reviews.

 

Use a hard drive that has its own built in wifi.

Sent from my LG-V20 using Tapatalk

 

To those of you using iPads/IPhones connecting straight into a DSP which app are you using?
Kaisertone
Onkyo HF
Vox
NePlayer
iAudiogate
Fiio music
Neutron
Hibymusic

 

I recently downloaded the Onkyo High Rea app on the iPhone, and I like the interface and it doesn’t have the stupid tagging issues like the Music app does.

Bought the new Dave Matthews Band disc - loaded it in the Mac to XLS, no metadata (track 1, etc. ), I typed out everything and ripped it. Downconverted it to Apple Lossless and moved it on the phone from iTunes - the Music app split it in multiple albums - completely ridiculous. I was able to go back with Yate on some in the past and move them back to the phone, but this one refused to be fixed. Got the Onkyo app - no problems.


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Thanks Buddy. So it looks like the Onkyo App is a winner. And only $15AU to unlock the hi-res part

 

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DAPs with the Helix DSP MK2 & USB AUDIO Card




Edit: sorry, the photos are working now

 

Unfamiliar with that NPR thing Billy - is there a way to get a decent download of that set other than YouTube to MP3?


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Unfamiliar with that NPR thing Billy - is there a way to get a decent download of that set other than YouTube to MP3?

Unfortunately, not that I know of. They don't create or offer lossless audio only downloads of these performances AFAIK.

 

Could such chinese android head unit be used as a source for usb audio input into helixhec usb?
https://www.seicane.com/pure-androi...-e270-e280-e300-e320-with-radio-rds-3g-wifi-bluetooth-mirror-link-obd2-s127501a