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Hertz Vs Kicker KS 6x9 components

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17K views 52 replies 11 participants last post by  daloudin  
#1 ·
Good quality 6x9s are hard to find. Before anyone suggests 6.5s, I'm dead set on 6x9s.

Any opinions on Hertz CPK pro components vs kicker KS?

Looking to spend around 250-300.

Hertz are a little pricy but I'd spend it if they are that much better. Also considering a set of discontinued morel 6x9s on ebay

Open to suggestions.
 
#3 ·
deleted...wrong recommendation
 
#6 ·
Thats not a lot of power, so I would look for the most efficient drivers I could find.

I don't know how the key would react to the lower impedance on these... But I'd would try them. You won't really gain a ton from super high end speakers with a relatively weak amp.

 
#15 ·
Probably. Harman is a big company that thinks about stuff like that. I can tell you I installed thousands of sets of them powered by the dinky amps in a radio or head unit without issues, no overheating, no shutting off, just good sound and eeked out a bit more from what the parts could do.
 
#8 ·
Aren't JBL/Infinity's like 3.2 ohms?

Should be ok, the lower the ohms, the hotter them amp has to work and the more power it puts out so you may get up to 55wpc...
 
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#9 ·
Hertz CPK Cento Pro 6x9 components are 60w RMS and appear to be a good match for the amp.

Same price as Morels 6x9 Tempo Ultras. They are 150w RMS and I worry I would be underpowering them at 50w.

Only other options (much cheaper)

Are JL-Audio C1-690s (60w RMS)

And

Kicker KS 6x9s (120w RMS)

Any opinions? Is it worth it to spring for the Hertz? Or save some cash and see if I'd be happy with the JLs or Kickers?
 
#11 ·
#12 ·
Another option to consider are the AF 690’s.

 
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#13 · (Edited)
The Hertz CPK 690 is rated at 120w RMS, and 92 sensitivity ... where are you seeing 60w RMS for these?


Image


I personally have the 6.5" Cento components, and am really liking them. I'm giving them 70w from my amp.

Underpowering a speaker won't be a problem, so long as it not distorting. You should be looking at the sensitivity though, to determine if the power you have available will be enough for your listening taste.

With 92 sensitivity rating, that means 1w at 1 meter = 92dB loudness. Doubling the power, gives three more dB.

So:
  • 2w = 95dB
  • 4w = 98dB
  • 8w = 101dB
  • 16w = 104dB
  • 32w = 107dB
  • 64w = 110B
So with 50w (clean watts, no distortion), you can expect loudness levels from one speaker to be 109dB or so.

Add a second driver, with the same power applied to it, and it increases 3 dB.

So 2 of the Hertz 6x9s, being fed 50 clean watts, would top out around 112 dB in loudness.

Is that enough for you? If so, its a good choice.


The Morel Tempo Ultra 6x9, is rated at 130w RMS with a sensitivity rating of 91dB

Image


This is roughly equal in loudness to the Centos.
 
#17 ·
On a different website, the Centos are listed as 120w RMS per pair, 60w per speaker. It's possible it could be wrong.

And I've been focusing primarily on sensitivity in all the sets I've listed that I'm choosing from. At 50w I figured it was the most important spec to get the most out of the power.
 
#14 ·
If what you care about is midbass, you need to understand the Fs of the speakers.

Personally, I would get a different amp and bridge it. That gives you all the power you could need. The other thing I think you should focus on is deadening.

You'll get way better sound by spending 100 bucks less and putting that 100 bucks into a CLD product like dynamat, or any other butyl based, metal backed CLD. Depending on what your doors are like, maybe even stiffen them with some C channel metal. If your speakers are vibrating the doors vs pushing the air out, you're going to lose midbass.
 
#16 ·
Literally this. Look up door deadening videos from people like Car Audio Fabrication on YouTube that can show how it can properly be done. The difference between a deadened and raw door is very significant.

Also more amp power doesn't really hurt either.

Sent from my SM-G960U1 using Tapatalk
 
#20 ·
I'm in the same boat with the Kicker Key 200.4

Nice to read of the Hertz cpk690's, but is the Kicker Key enough? I'm a low/moderate volume level kind of guy and want more bass with tweeter clarity at lower volume levels.
Enough for what? Two Hertz CPK 690 speakers, with 50 watts fed to each, will reach roughly 112 dB without distortion.

I would definitely classify that as low to moderate levels, if that’s what you mean.
 
#21 · (Edited)
Stoopalin thank you for the response, I'm a newbie and there's a lot to learn/know, lol
How should I say this? hmmmm, at these low/moderate volume levels, will the goodness of these Hertz cpk 690 speakers shine?

I read some posters saying certain speakers are made to produce better sound at higher levels, meaning they shine at higher volume levels(more amp/watts needed)? is that "sensativity" where the speaker needs more power to sound good? geez
 
#22 ·
The only way to answer that for your tastes is to hear the speakers. It becomes a personal taste thing at that point.

Wattage is variable. When an amp says “50 watts”, that doesn’t mean it putting out 50 watts all the time. It means it can produce 50 watts without distortion, when the input signal is clean, and within the input specs if the amp.

The sensitivity rating of the speaker tells you how loud it can play at certain wattage, without distortion.

To determine if you like the sound from the speaker at those levels, you just have to listen and see.
 
#23 ·
The only way to answer that for your tastes is to hear the speakers. It becomes a personal taste thing at that point.

Wattage is variable. When an amp says “50 watts”, that doesn’t mean it putting out 50 watts all the time. It means it can produce 50 watts without distortion, when the input signal is clean, and within the input specs if the amp.

The sensitivity rating of the speaker tells you how loud it can play at certain wattage, without distortion.

To determine if you like the sound from the speaker at those levels, you just have to listen and see.
I believe on the amp Dyno the kicker 200.4 put out 55-57 watts per channel FWIW

Think I'm pretty set on the Hertz 6x9s.

Just hope they will sound good being pushed with only 50w.

Really hope I'm not gonna be wasting my money buying these having never listened to them.
 
#24 ·
They’ll sound fine. The only time you’ll be pushing them with 50w is when you’re listening at 112dB.

For reference, 110dB will start causing damage after 30 mins of sustained listening.

Image
 
#26 ·
With just 1 watt a speaker with a sensitivity rating of 92 db will output 92 db. For every 3 db more you have to double your power, so 92 + 3 = 95 db and 2 watts.
95 + 3 db more = 98 db and now 4 watts.
98 + 3 db more = 101 db and now 8 watts.
101 + 3 db more = 104 db and now 16 watts.
104 + 3 db more = 107 db and now 32 watts.
107 + 3 db more = 110 db and now you need more than 50 watts at 64 watts required although that kicker may still deliver.

107 + db is very loud though so the Kicker Key should do fine for all but those that need it ear bleeding (and hearing loss) loud. Look for a 6x9 with higher sensitivity and generally you’ll be looking at drivers with a 1” voice coil. The Audiofrog GS690 is very good for your needs. Sound deadening the door properly will make the best use of your available power and reduce distortion. Make sure you seal the driver to the door baffle, and if you can, seal up any door holes on the inner door panel to separate the back sound wave coming from the back of the speaker cone from meeting the front sound wave coming from the front of the cone (180 degrees out of phase) and causing cancellation, and thus wasting power.
 
#27 ·
Any thoughts on the Infinity Kappa 6x9s?

Would the extra volume I get using 3ohm speakers be worth stressing the amp? Kicker said unofficially it should be fine for the amp.

I reckon the key would be pushing somewhere around 75w @ 3ohm.

I also looked at the audiofrog GS690s. Getting really up there in price after you add the separate tweeters. The Hertz have a larger voice coil than the AudioFrogs (1.2 inch vs 1 inch) and the Hertz also have a higher BL (6.9 vs 5.43 on the frogs)

Can't find any tech specs on the Infinity Kappas. I just really worry about speakers not sounding good when not being driven with full power they are rated for. Is it not a big deal? Does high sensitivity make up for it?
 
#31 · (Edited)
You're still hung up on the max wattage rating of the speaker and the amp. Unless you plan to listen at levels above 112dB, sending 50w to a speaker with a sensitivity rating of 92dB is all you need.

Amplifiers don't put out a set wattage. The amplify the incoming signal. The RMS wattage rating is a spec which tells you how much they can output before producing unwanted distortion. The RMS wattage rating of the speaker tells you how much power they can handle before the speaker itself starts causing distortion.

These are not "loudness" specs, although they are variables in determining how loud the system will play distortion free.

When your head unit's volume knob is at a moderate level, the RCAs could be putting out under 1v. The amp will then "amplify" this for the speakers. Let's say the amp does a 10x amplification. So if the RCAs are sending 1v, then the amp puts out 10v. 10vac output from an amp, into a 4ohm load, would produce 25 watts of power. With a speaker of 92dB sensitivity, the loudness would be around 105dB. If you turned the head unit's volume down to 0.5v (from the RCAs), now the amp would output 5vac, or about 6.5 watts, which would produce a loudness of around 100dB.

Under most normal listening, you are sending WAY less than 50 watts to a set of 6x9 components with a sensitivity rating of 92dB. There is no concern about them "not being driven with full power" ... as you will most likely never drive them with full power due to not wanting to listen to the system at those levels.

Now if you're wanting to build a system where you can roll the windows down, and play music while you sit by the side of the lake, 20 feet from the car, and still hear it loud and clear ... that's a different story. But if this is a regular driver car, and you just want good sound while you are driving around ... 50 watts into those Hertz speakers will sound great.

If it makes you feel better, I ran my Hertz components (rated at 70 watts) with an old 30wpc PPI amp for a while, and it sounded great! Plenty loud. I did have to turn my head unit up to a higher number to achieve the same loudness I get with my 80wpc Toro amp, but that's not a big deal.
 
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#28 ·
I would not get all ties up into worrying about 3ohm vs 4 ohm speakers - It has more to do with the Sensitvity @ 1w like was talked about previously.

You're probably overthinking this and getting paralyzed into second guessing yourself or a fear-of-purchase .

Get the better quality speaker! Pushing more power thru a crappier speaker, is NOT going to make you want to want to pump up the volume!

I replaced 2ohm speakers in my Honda with 4ohm speakers and they sounded better!

If you don't go with the Hertz, get the AF 6x9 (component) woofers and pair them with some high-end Hertz Tweeters, like the ML 280.3 Millie Legends...
 
#30 ·
I have JL C1's 690 components running off the Kicker 200.4. My digital meter is ~25 years old and it read my tweeter resistance @ 2.6ohms.

Running Stock Toyota hu, JL C1 690 components up front and the 6.5" Coax in rear doors on the kk 200.4. I'm in this forum because I'm not quite satisfied, lol
Better quality amp & speakers should help satisfy your thirst... !
 
#32 · (Edited)
Stoopalini,
say for an example, the AudioFrog GB15 tweeter's spec sheet says, reccomended minumum RMS Wattage 20w and maximum RMS Wattage 100w

are they saying the recommended amplifier to use with this tweeter is to have ratings between 20-100w? or is it saying we need to "feed" the gb15 a minimum of 20w to attain the tweeter's sweet spot output? what's the output going to sound like if it was fed <15w's?
 
#33 ·
Stoopalini,
say for an example, the AudioFrog GB15 series speaker the spec sheet says, reccomended minumum RMS Wattage 20w and maximum RMS Wattage 100w

are they saying the recommended amplifier wattage per channel s/b in that range of 20-100w? or is it saying we need to "feed" the gb15 a minimum of 20w to attain the tweeter's sweet spot output? what's the output going to sound like if it was fed <15w's?
Reading this exact type of thing from different manufacturers is what led to my question about possibly "under driving" the speakers I choose. Audiofrog and a few others list a "minimum wattage recommended". I just wanted to make sure 50 watts wouldn't be under the minimum for some of these speakers that are rated for 120-150w RMS.

@Stoopalini
 
#38 ·
you've answered my question for the most part, I should have enough power for my listening levels. As for BigHead, I don't know what levels he be listening to.

What is BigHead's concern of under driving a speaker? loudness, clarity, etc. at his listening levels? Is it safe to say the speaker 120-150watts ratings shouldn't be exceeded or risk damage and that's all it means? You can throw a stock head unit at a speaker with those high ratings or even lower and not get much more out of the system, lol. That 120-150w ratings doesn't tell you how the speaker will sound at any listening level? The question may be how does the given speaker sound at a certain listening level, at what wattage does that speaker hit it's sweet spot? LOL, I'm just going on and on
 
#39 ·
I guess the piece I don't understand is, "the sweet spot" ... what do you mean by this?

The RMS wattage rating does not tell you how the speaker will sound, other than how much power it can handle before it will distort above the tested threshold. Different frequencies also have different responses. I'm explaining things in a very simple way, for the sake of conveying understanding. But it's actually much more complex than this.

For example, the sensitivity rating is usually done with 1 watt power at 1 meter distance. But some shady manufacturers will do this at different power and different distances. You then have to really dig into the fine print. This really only applies to the cheap, low quality, manufacturers. No respectable manufacturer (ie: Hertz, AudioFrog, JL, etc ...) will do this though. Look at some of those really cheap Boss amps as an example ... the RMS and Peak ratings they assign are at such high % distortion, or done with an impractical test signal, that it doesn't translate to real word performance. This is why people dyno amplifiers, to see what heir real performance is.

Note the RMS wattage rating is also done with parameters. Like only one channel driven, or all channels driven .... also what signal was used to derive the distortion, and what % of distortion was it tested at?

For example, Sending a 1kHz test tone, to one channel of a 4 channel amp, and reporting the wattage which caused 10% distortion will result in a MUCH higher wattage rating than sending pink noise, on all channels, and reporting the wattage which caused .01% distortion.

So long as you stick with a quality brand (like Hertz, JL, AudoFrog, etc ...), you really don't need to be concerned with this level of detail though. You can just do the math on the amplifier's RMS wattage rating combined with the speakers sensitivity rating, to determine what loudness you can expect without distortion.

The wattage rating from these manufacturers is the limit you should consider. Although at 120w, on a 92 sensitivity speaker, is around 113dB. Add a second speaker, and it's now 116 dB. And of course, this is in a lab, without reflections (which cause doubling and well as cancellations). So you're real world dB levels can often be higher than this.

Now when you start to talk about subwoofers, things change up too, partly because the human ear percieves low frequencies at a lower volume than mid/high frequencies. It also takes more energy to produce low frequencies. This is why subwoofer speakers have a lower sensitivity rating than mids and tweeters, and also why sub amps need to produce a lot more wattage to balance the overall sound of the system.

Ok, so I think I may be overloading you with info?? LOL ... but I wanted to make the point that the underlying principals in play here are complex. In the end though, 50w provided to a 92 sensitivity speaker, will produce 112dB (assuming the ratings are respectable and valid by the manufacturer). It doesn't matter if the speaker's RMS rating is 50w, or if it 250w ... the loudness at 50w will be the same. The difference between the 50w rated one, and the 250w rated one, would be how much power it can handle, and in turn, how loud it can play without distortion.
 
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